Author Topic: How Psychedelic Substances Can Help Treat Anxiety, Depression And Other Mental Illnesses  (Read 2188 times)

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Offline Elderberry

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WBUR by Jeremy Hobson and Serena McMahon 10/9/2019

The world of psychedelic research is expanding.

Johns Hopkins University has launched a center for psychedelic research with $17 million in donations solely from private donors, the first of its kind in the U.S.

The establishment of the Center for Psychedelic and Consciousness Research at Johns Hopkins Medicine signals “a new era of research in therapeutics and the mind,” according to the center’s director, Roland Griffiths.

That comes on the heels of the U.S. Food and Drug Administration’s announcement earlier this year that it had approved esketamine, a substance chemically-related to the party drug ketamine, as a nasal spray to treat depression.

The potential of psychedelics for treating mental illnesses — such as anxiety, depression, addiction, PTSD and more — has been the primary research interest of psychologist William Richards for more than 50 years, though for more than two decades he couldn’t engage in the field.

More: https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2019/10/09/psychedelics-mental-illness-lsd-psilocybin

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Offline Elderberry

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Evidence is mounting that psychedelic drugs can help treat diseases. Here are the most promising uses.

https://www.businessinsider.com/most-promising-uses-psychedelic-drugs-medicine-science-2018-10

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Ever since drugs like psilocybin, the active ingredient in hallucinogenic mushrooms, appeared to help quell anxiety in cancer patients several years ago, the compounds have seen something of a resurgence of interest among scientists. Researchers are currently studying the potential of drugs ranging from ecstasy to ayahuasca to treat mental illnesses including depression and PTSD.

Researchers in October published the latest findings of a year-long study designed to assess if ecstasy or MDMA could play a role in treatment for PTSD. Their positive findings suggest that it could.

After the treatment, in which patients were given MDMA alongside traditional talk therapy and compared with a group that got the same treatment only using a placebo instead of the drug, some three-quarters of the participants no longer met the criteria for a PTSD diagnosis. In other words, their symptoms had resolved.

Researchers studying psilocybin, the main psychoactive ingredient in hallucinogenic mushrooms, have likened its quick effects on cancer patients to a "surgical intervention" for depression.

Brain scan studies suggest that depression ramps up the activity in brain circuits linked with negative emotions, and weakens the activity in circuits linked with positive ones. Psilocybin appears to restore balance to that system.

More at link.

Offline Wingnut

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Center for Psychedelic and Consciousness Research at Johns Hopkins Medicine signals “a new era of research in therapeutics and the mind,”

He'll fly his astral plane
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Brings you back the same day
I am just a Technicolor Dream Cat riding this kaleidoscope of life.

Offline Sanguine

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So, I think they're saying that in brains working on all negative emotions, giving them consciousness altering drugs stimulate the positive emotion receptors and hormones. Could be. 

Offline sneakypete

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FALSE.

@roamer_1

What's false? Are you saying the research isn't happening?
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Offline sneakypete

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Evidence is mounting that psychedelic drugs can help treat diseases. Here are the most promising uses.

Researchers in October published the latest findings of a year-long study designed to assess if ecstasy or MDMA could play a role in treatment for PTSD.

@Elderberry

You bet your bleeping bippy it works. I'd be willing to travel on my own dime to give witness to that fact.
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Offline sneakypete

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So, I think they're saying that in brains working on all negative emotions, giving them consciousness altering drugs stimulate the positive emotion receptors and hormones. Could be.

@Sanguine

All that could very well be true,but I can't testify to all that. I CAN testify to MDMA/Ecstasy bring peace and understanding to a troubled mind,though. Even my childhood friends and family didn't want to be around me when I first got out of the army,and for several years after I got discharged.

Let's just say I was a little aggressive and prone to violence if threatened.
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Online roamer_1

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@roamer_1

What's false? Are you saying the research isn't happening?

The premise that psychedelic drugs help anything. Ever.

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Head meds are horrible, take it from me.

They absolutely do work, but they basically kill your emotions. Yeah I don't get depressed and such, but I find I don't enjoy little things like watching the stars as much etc. They also kill your motivation. Weight gain is an annoying side affect.

I think in certain circumstances they're probably great, like for people with a terminal illness.

I have no doubt that psychedelics might be more effective for anxiety and depression.

Offline sneakypete

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The premise that psychedelic drugs help anything. Ever.

@roamer_1

And you know this based on what rumors?
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@roamer_1

And you know this based on what rumors?

@sneakypete
Experience. Others that I am close to, that I saw destroyed with my own eyes.

Offline sneakypete

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@sneakypete
Experience. Others that I am close to, that I saw destroyed with my own eyes.

@roamer_1

No,what you saw was addiction,and POSSIBLY saw lives destroyed due to them being arrested for being addicts and going to prison for possession of drugs. MDA literally saved my mind and my life. I was uber aggressive,and didn't care if I lived or died. This may have been a fine attitude to have while I was a career NCO in the army,but not so fine for life in the civilian world. Worse,due to my time in the military,I thought that was normal. Pretty much everybody I knew was like that.

Let's just say I had some adjustment problems transitioning from the military to civilian life. One night I was tripping on MDA in a local bar,and just happened to witness some aggressive drunk trying to cause trouble with another drunk,and was thinking how sad that was when it came to me like a flash of light that I might as well have been looking into a mirror. That was the night I started to recover my balance and stopped living every day stressed out.

Don't get me wrong. If someone catches me wrong and gets pushy for no good reason that I can see,I can push back with enthusiasm,and once the blood is up,it's "game ON!",but that hasn't happened in years. If push starts to come to shove now,I take a moment and try to give a warning. If that doesn't work,well,I warned you so it's not my fault from that point forward.

Used to be I would start stuff just because I was bored. In my defense,I never tried to start anything with anyone smaller than me,or sober. I always looked for a big,drunk redneck.

I have insights now into my own personality that I didn't have before,and have developed my own methods of keeping control. Off the top of my head,I honestly can't remember the last time I got up in anybody's face and went "full berserker". Granted,some part of that is probably related to me living in a rural area where most of the locals know me,including the wannabe bullies,and I know most of them,so conflicts are less likely to happen,but most of it is due to me having a MUCH better understanding of my own mind and personality,and genuinely having zero desire to hurt anyone. Including myself. I lost my "survivor guilt".

I am NOT saying I am in perfect control,though. Had a idiot come into my gun shop one day several years after I quit drinking and drugging that was huge,and seemed to have an attitude. I asked  him if I could help him and he said "No,I'm just looking around." I had a little tom cat that was laying up on the counter taking a nap that had came to the door crying one night in a thunderstorm and begging to be let in when he was a kitten,and he was my shop cat. He slept where he wanted and did what he wanted. VERY tame and affectionate,and lots of people that came in liked to pet him. This idiot spots the cat and informs me "I hate cats,and I'm going to kill that cat before I leave." That was when I put my hand on my 45acp Combat Commander on the shelf under my counter,smiled at him,and told him "If you feel like you just can't live with yourself if you don't kill  that cat before you leave,go ahead and try it,and see how that works out for you." I was going to put a couple of 200 grain hollowpoints in his head to make him change his mind,but for some reason he seemed to get nervous and just left without saying anything else. At no time did he see the gun,or did I even tell him I had a gun in my hand.

And "Yes,I DO know killing him would have been wrong.",but I didn't really give a damn. My feelings were and still are that "If you buy the ticket,it's nobody's fault but your own if you take the ride." That kitten wasn't bothering anyone or anything,and neither was I. We were both also where we were supposed to be,in our own spaces. He came in looking for trouble,so I was willing to give it to him. If I had to have to kill him to save the kitten,I would have felt fully justified to do it then,and I still think the same today. If that makes me a bad person,so be it. I can live with that. He brought it to me,I didn't bring it to him. There was a time in my life when I wouldn't have just let him walk out the door,though. I would have pushed it to the point he either attacked me or pissed his pants before I let him walk out the door,and I was REAL fond of making people that started trouble with me give me all the money in their wallets for causing me grief.  MY theory was/is that if you make a bully realize what a big bitch he really is,he will generally leave people alone after that. Now,of course,I realize that COULD have been seen as a robbery by intimidation,but that never occurred to me back then. I saw it as justice. It seemed only fair that someone would have to pay a fine for ruining my day. Luckily for both of us,the "new and improved me" was mellow enough by that time I let him go without any further words.

BTW,it wasn't long after that revelation in that bar that night that I quit doing drugs,and even quit drinking. I just didn't have any real desire to do either anymore. I keep beer in my refrigerator in case company comes by that wants a beer,but that's it. I think the last time I drank one myself was maybe 10 years ago. I just have no interest in getting drunk,and if I don't want to get drunk,why bother drinking?
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 04:31:02 am by sneakypete »
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Online roamer_1

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@roamer_1

No,what you saw was addiction,and POSSIBLY saw lives destroyed due to them being arrested for being addicts and going to prison for possession of drugs. MDA literally saved my mind and my life. I was uber aggressive,and didn't care if I lived or died. This may have been a fine attitude to have while I was a career NCO in the army,but not so fine for life in the civilian world. Worse,due to my time in the military,I thought that was normal. Pretty much everybody I knew was like that.

Let's just say I had some adjustment problems transitioning from the military to civilian life. One night I was tripping on MDA in a local bar,and just happened to witness some aggressive drunk trying to cause trouble with another drunk,and was thinking how sad that was when it came to me like a flash of light that I might as well have been looking into a mirror. That was the night I started to recover my balance and stopped living every day stressed out.

Those like you are mainly who I am thinking of @sneakypete . My two closest mentors wrt bushcraft are from the same mold as you. Damn near identical. Both came back from Nam jangly, and could not transition back to civilian life. Both went through drugs and drinkin, and the meds prescribed by shrinks... Both saw the light, got off all that, and live way past the end of the gravel, where most folks don't go. Both will tell you that sh*t dang near killed em... Which was what they were going for at the time.

It haunts them yet, what they seen and what they done. But they can live with it. Exactly the opposite of what the drugs were doing... Helping them die with it... Great guys, both of em. Give you the shirt right off their backs. Just don't walk up on the cabin without a holler, and your rifle with the lever down or the bolt back. Unless they know you, of course. Then you holler and walk on up, sit on the porch, sip a little shine, and tell some tall tales.

Drugs ain't ever the answer long term. They will own you in the end. Every time.

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Used to be I would start stuff just because I was bored. In my defense,I never tried to start anything with anyone smaller than me,or sober. I always looked for a big,drunk redneck.

Yeah. That would have been me.  :beer:

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BTW,it wasn't long after that revelation in that bar that night that I quit doing drugs,and even quit drinking. I just didn't have any real desire to do either anymore. I keep beer in my refrigerator in case company comes by that wants a beer,but that's it. I think the last time I drank one myself was maybe 10 years ago. I just have no interest in getting drunk,and if I don't want to get drunk,why bother drinking?

Same for them, same for me. Most of my friends have taken the hard way. And most of them are survivors of that life, men and women the same. And every man-jack of em know what that life did to them, or rather almost did.

And there's plenty that didn't make it that far. Everyone I know has somebody they lost to drugs or to drinking. Or to both, which is quite common. One of my friends did 7 years for murder... When he got out, heroin took him away from us two years later. Nice guy. Soft spoken. Wouldn't hurt a flea in his right mind. What a shame.


Offline sneakypete

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Drugs ain't ever the answer long term.


@txradioguy

AMEN to that one brother,AMEN! What they ARE/CAN be is the vehicle that puts you back on the road you need to be on. In fact,that is what these very drugs were created to do. They were only made illegal due to people abusing them.

As I am sure you know,there is a HUGE difference between using and abusing drugs. It just so happens that in MY case I abused them and accidentally got to where I needed to go,and was lucky enough to realize once I was there that I needed to leave them alone.

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And there's plenty that didn't make it that far. Everyone I know has somebody they lost to drugs or to drinking.

I was adopted,but in the family I grew up in,there was no shortage of alcoholics.

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Or to both, which is quite common.


An altered reality is an altered reality. If that is all you are looking for,you will find it one way or another. Healing is a different thing though,and hard to find. We can all babble all the nonsense we want to babble,but the plain truth is that the only people who heal and make a clean break are the people who are lucky enough that something inside them "speaks up" and tells them "enough is enough. Stop now." I will call it a "subconscious self-defense mechanism" for want of a better description. Some people seem to be lucky enough to have it,and the ones who aren't that lucky seem destined to die early. Doesn't have a single damn thing to do with intelligence,determination,or anything else other than maybe the genetics that come with birth by accident. You are lucky or you are not,and that's the name of that tune.

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One of my friends did 7 years for murder... When he got out, heroin took him away from us two years later. Nice guy. Soft spoken. Wouldn't hurt a flea in his right mind. What a shame.

Yes,it is,and there wasn't a single damn thing you or anyone else could have done to stop it from happening. It had to be him.

One thing that REALLY pisses me off is to hear some idiot rant and rave about how "he did it to himself. He just didn't have the willpower to quit!" That's akin to saying that someone fell off a cliff and died because he didn't flap his arms fast enough to fly. Some people are lucky enough to recognize they have a problem before it gets so bad it consumes their lives,and others don't. We are all individual people with individual genetics we acquire though the accident of birth,and different people need different treatment methods. Which is one reason why LSD should have never been banned for psychiatric use. Who knows how many lives would have been saved if some people had had access to psychiatric care combined with small doses of LSD or similar drugs?
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 06:47:55 am by sneakypete »
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Online roamer_1

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AMEN to that one brother,AMEN! What they ARE/CAN be is the vehicle that puts you back on the road you need to be on. In fact,that is what these very drugs were created to do. They were only made illegal due to people abusing them.

As I am sure you know,there is a HUGE difference between using and abusing drugs. It just so happens that in MY case I abused them and accidentally got to where I needed to go,and was lucky enough to realize once I was there that I needed to leave them alone.

More luck than sense, most of the time, that's true.  But I would point to them folks that made it through and didn't need the crutch.

One of the guys I turned to when I dried out was a friend who has arguably seen more pain than most could bear... Lost his dad - watched him torn up by a combine... Couldn't get out of the truck in time. Lost his daughter ... Should have been with him, but he let her go home with a friend... Accident killed her. And he lost his wife to cancer. Horrible and long fight to the death. Held her in his arms, breathing her last.

Now I know me. That kinda stuff, I will crawl back into a nice warm bottle for months or years. I will get good and drunk and let my fury loose on the first dumass to pick a fight - Nice and simple - Something I can destroy instead of the thing I could not destroy... Anger by proxy perhaps.

Not that guy. Never seen him drunk. He'll have a beer or two and go on home. Never did anything else, not even weed. It never wrecked him. He stood through it all. Find one of them and figure out how he makes do - It will change your thinking. Sure did mine.
 
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Which is one reason why LSD should have never been banned for psychiatric use. Who knows how many lives would have been saved if some people had had access to psychiatric care combined with small doses of LSD or similar drugs?

You have infinitely more confidence in shrinks than I do. I don't think them folks know their a$$ from a hole in the ground. There's a reason they call it a practice.

No, I have found it always to be better to see things with a straight mind... Learned that from the guy in the last paragraph. And he is right.

Offline sneakypete

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More luck than sense, most of the time, that's true.  But I would point to them folks that made it through and didn't need the crutch.



@roamer_1

We are all different people,with different strengths,different weaknesses,different psyches,and different motivations,good and bad. There is no such critter as "one treatment fits all."

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One of the guys I turned to when I dried out was a friend who has arguably seen more pain than most could bear... Lost his dad - watched him torn up by a combine... Couldn't get out of the truck in time. Lost his daughter ... Should have been with him, but he let her go home with a friend... Accident killed her. And he lost his wife to cancer. Horrible and long fight to the death. Held her in his arms, breathing her last.

I see no mention of how many people he killed,or how many gunfights he was in,with people screaming and dying all around him.
 
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You have infinitely more confidence in shrinks than I do.

I have none at all. Every one I have ever known,including a kid I went to HS with,was nuttier than I ever was,and basically seemed to have become shrinks in an effort to heal themselves.

Still,you need them for the prescriptions.

 
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There's a reason they call it a practice.

The same can be said for surgeons,lawyers,engineers,or any other profession.

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No, I have found it always to be better to see things with a straight mind... Learned that from the guy in the last paragraph. And he is right.

Maybe I am reading you wrong,but there is a difference in being addicted to alcohol and being addicted to adrenaline rushes and danger.  Apples and oranges.
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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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I have more confidence in shrinks then I do in head meds. And I suppose I have confidence in head meds, just that they have nasty side effects that make them not worth it.

Mental illness is real. I know more then a few people who committed suicide. Mental illness is just as deadly as real illness.

I think some shrinks are better than others though.

Offline Gefn

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Yesterday was World Mental Health Day.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Mental_Health_Day

Depression is a nasty thing but I’m on the fence about if psych meds really do work long term or not.

Interesting article.
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Offline Gefn

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I have more confidence in shrinks then I do in head meds. And I suppose I have confidence in head meds, just that they have nasty side effects that make them not worth it.

Mental illness is real. I know more then a few people who committed suicide. Mental illness is just as deadly as real illness.

I think some shrinks are better than others though.

@Weird Tolkienish Figure totally agree. I have two friends who suicided.
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Offline sneakypete

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Yesterday was World Mental Health Day.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Mental_Health_Day

Depression is a nasty thing but I’m on the fence about if psych meds really do work long term or not.

Interesting article.

@Gefn

My opinion,and worth every dollar it cost you,is that SOME psych meds are really helpful for shor term use IF used properly,but there ain't no such critter as a "good long term psych drug". When you are talking "long term", the word I hear is "tranquilized". I am NOT a shrink and have never even played one on teebee,so I am not up to date on what medicinal "tools" they have these days,so I can only hope things are better than they used to be because there used to be a lot of "empty shells" running around that used to be humans. Given a choice,I would rather be dead that turned into a zombie.
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Offline LadyLiberty

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@Sanguine

All that could very well be true,but I can't testify to all that. I CAN testify to MDMA/Ecstasy bring peace and understanding to a troubled mind,though. Even my childhood friends and family didn't want to be around me when I first got out of the army,and for several years after I got discharged.

Let's just say I was a little aggressive and prone to violence if threatened.

I believe you when you say it helped you.  MDMA is being used in clinical trials to treat PTSD.  https://khn.org/news/mdma-or-ecstasy-shows-promise-as-a-ptsd-treatment/

Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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@Gefn

My opinion,and worth every dollar it cost you,is that SOME psych meds are really helpful for shor term use IF used properly,but there ain't no such critter as a "good long term psych drug". When you are talking "long term", the word I hear is "tranquilized".

Well some people need tranquilization. I don't know if you ever had contact with someone with schizophrenia. My grandfather had it.

Without drugs, these people can exist in a "looney bin" and that's abut it.

With mood-disorder mental illness, I definitely agree.

Offline sneakypete

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Well some people need tranquilization. I don't know if you ever had contact with someone with schizophrenia.


Yes,I have,and what you say is true at this time. There is hope that one day science will come up with a cure for that too,but it's not going to be easy.

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Without drugs, these people can exist in a "looney bin" and that's abut it.

Yup!

 
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We are all different people,with different strengths,different weaknesses,different psyches,and different motivations,good and bad. There is no such critter as "one treatment fits all."

@sneakypete
That's right... But that's what Western med does. Everything is pharma. I am finding that to be largely untrue. In fact, as a general rule, pharma should be the last resort, not the first.

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I see no mention of how many people he killed,or how many gunfights he was in,with people screaming and dying all around him.

Meh. There's more than one road to being traumatized. Not knocking what you've gone through, by any means, but then, I would not knock what anyone has gone through...

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I have none at all. Every one I have ever known,including a kid I went to HS with,was nuttier than I ever was,and basically seemed to have become shrinks in an effort to heal themselves.

[...]

The same can be said for surgeons,lawyers,engineers,or any other profession.


We are in complete agreement.

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Still,you need them for the prescriptions.

Only if you think you need prescriptions. Like I said, pharma ain't likely to be the bast way forward.
 
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Maybe I am reading you wrong,but there is a difference in being addicted to alcohol and being addicted to adrenaline rushes and danger.  Apples and oranges.

Right, but they tend to run together.

I do the adrenaline thing too - Cherries and berries in the rear view still makes my right foot hit the floor... A four-wheel drift from pavement to gravel is a beautiful thing... The part of me that starts to giggle when faced with three dudes confronting me in a bar, full of themselves and wanting to prove it... The thrill of the hunt, and the pump you get when it comes to an end, especially up close and personal... bow or sling or blowgun... The smell of blood, the heat, the sweat... The thrill you get as you finish your wrap, nodding to the guy at the gate - As a bull or a bronc explodes beneath you... I don't get it like you get it, but I DO get it.

In fact, I took up technical rock climbing late in life as a remedy for that - business pressure and picket fences were wrecking me bad... And I didn't know why... But that's exactly why - no adrenaline. You want a pump? Go hang off a rock wall, clinging to ledges the width of a quarter, 600 ft up. It gets real, and real simple up there. You and God, the rope and the ground. That is literally all that matters. And there you are with every last inch used up, whole body shaking, barely able, crawling off over the top to magnificent victory! Man what a ride!

That fixed more in two hours than all the shrinks and meds in the world could do! That is a serious and true high.

But I will tell you true, dude. Addiction is addiction, no matter the form. If it has you by the short hairs, it ain't good for you. If  ever get my legs back all the way, I doubt I would go back to pure technical rock climbing. I don't need to beard dragons anymore. Will I use it as part of mountaineering? Sure. But my gig is being a long-walker. That is my sweet spot... And I will get a shot or two of adrenaline along the way as it comes. That's enough.

What has been missing all along is walking off into the bush and not coming back. That life style has it all.