Author Topic: Rand Paul: It's Not U.S. Responsibility 'to Fight Every War and Find Every Peace'  (Read 526 times)

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Offline massadvj

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It's funny how just about everyone on this board agrees when someone talks about us not going to war unless we intend to win.  Yet, when the president decides to bail out of a "no win" situation, people start complaining.  If we have learned anything in our sordid history with the Middle East, it is that there are no such things as good guys or bad guys.  If Turkey, Russia or Iran want to get into the mess, more power to them.  They can afford it even less than we can.
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Offline txradioguy

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It's funny how just about everyone on this board agrees when someone talks about us not going to war unless we intend to win.  Yet, when the president decides to bail out of a "no win" situation, people start complaining.  If we have learned anything in our sordid history with the Middle East, it is that there are no such things as good guys or bad guys.  If Turkey, Russia or Iran want to get into the mess, more power to them.  They can afford it even less than we can.

It's not a matter or win or no win...it's a matter of right or wrong.
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Offline corbe

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   Bush had the right idea about invading Iraq, but Paul Brenner screwed the pooch, then obummer ate the damn dog.  Eisenhower's thing about the Military Industry Complex, comes to mind.
No government in the 6,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline jpsb

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   Bush had the right idea about invading Iraq, but Paul Brenner screwed the pooch, then obummer ate the damn dog.  Eisenhower's thing about the Military Industry Complex, comes to mind.

So where are Suddam's nukes? That after all was the "reason" we created the horrible mess that is the Middle East today.

Offline jpsb

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It's not a matter or win or no win...it's a matter of right or wrong.

Yes, it's a Duty, Honor, Country thing.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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So where are Suddam's nukes? That after all was the "reason" we created the horrible mess that is the Middle East today.

My money's always been on Bekka, in Syria.
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Offline aligncare

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It's not a matter or win or no win...it's a matter of right or wrong.

So the US soldier pays the price with limb or life to prove that politicians are virtuous? For what? Middle Easterners’ politics? Is there a compelling reason an American should sacrifice? Is it to protect his family, his home, his country?

I cannot anymore find a reason for this entanglement and I find @massadvj ’s point particularly cogent in this regard.

Enough.

Offline corbe

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So where are Suddam's nukes? That after all was the "reason" we created the horrible mess that is the Middle East today.

   With all due respect @jpsb the ME has been screwed up since before we were even a Country.  Go in, kick azz and get the Fk out of their internal affairs except for some guidelines like Germany and Japan after WWII.  It's been downhill for US Foreign entanglements since Korea.
   IMHO, ain't nobody fixing that CF currently called the ME, except themselves and I don't believe their up to the task.
No government in the 6,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline txradioguy

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So where are Suddam's nukes? That after all was the "reason" we created the horrible mess that is the Middle East today.

They went to Syria along with his whole WMD program.  CENTCOM watched the convoy go unabated across the border a couple days before Baghdad fell.

A couple years later the IAF took care of the new WMD facility Syria had created from Saddams weapons.


And we didn't create any mess in the ME if anything we always have to go in and fix the messes made. 

Thats some Ron/Rand Paul kook talk right there on your part.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 05:20:59 PM by txradioguy »
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline TomSea

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I am hearing now that the original directivesaid US troops were leaving the area and NOT Syria itself.

Offline skeeter

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I am hearing now that the original directivesaid US troops were leaving the area and NOT Syria itself.

I've heard 'northern Syria' this entire time.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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So I guess @Right_in_Virginia and anyone else here tossing around the "neocon" term for those that don't agree with their radical Libertarian isolationist cheerleading now that Trump is adopting it...think we're all socialists or former socialists.

Good grief, get a hold of the hyperbole @txradioguy   It's getting the best of you.

There's nothing isolationist about wanting America's young sent to die only for what's in America's interests and national security.  And there is nothing isolationist about our bringing our soldiers home when our mission is accomplished.

For the life of me I don't understand how you can justify a father and son serving in the same war 18 years apart  --- or why you're so hell-bent on replicating this disaster everywhere and anywhere. 
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline jpsb

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Quote from: txradioguy link=topic=378566.msg2070463#msg2070463 date=1570569572

Thats some Ron/Rand Paul kook talk right there on your part.
[/quote

And just when I am starting to like you ....... BAMB!
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 08:30:42 PM by jpsb »

Offline corbe

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   There's a Theory on the Net that the most burdensome database in a Forum is the Ignore List,  once you reach critical mass on that one, you start going down. 
   You Briefers need to learn to be more tolerant of each other for the good of us all or there will be another Brief outage (relinking Databases), promptly followed by Quarterly Briefathon's to remove your BIAS from our presence and insure Site Stability.

No government in the 6,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline massadvj

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So the US soldier pays the price with limb or life to prove that politicians are virtuous? For what? Middle Easterners’ politics? Is there a compelling reason an American should sacrifice? Is it to protect his family, his home, his country?

I cannot anymore find a reason for this entanglement and I find @massadvj ’s point particularly cogent in this regard.

Enough.

If Obama had done this the media would be drooling all over themselves talking about how "courageous" he was to stand up to the military, etc.  Because it's Trump, they take the neocon side and make it look like he is some kind of mad man.  Enough is right. 
"She only coughs when she lies."

Offline TomSea

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   There's a Theory on the Net that the most burdensome database in a Forum is the Ignore List,  once you reach critical mass on that one, you start going down. 
   You Briefers need to learn to be more tolerant of each other for the good of us all or there will be another Brief outage (relinking Databases), promptly followed by Quarterly Briefathon's to remove your BIAS from our presence and insure Site Stability.



Thank you Mr. Pleasant!

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Offline corbe

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Thank you Mr. Pleasant!

Error 404 (Not Found)!!1



    @TomSea I'd shamelessly admit that I'd probably make the top 10 list here as far as being on Briefers Ignore List (mine stays empty), though, I don't have access to that information and that could essentially make me more part of the 'problem' than the 'solution'. I get that.

    But I promise I can change, just give me 5 more years.


 wink777
No government in the 6,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline TomSea

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So, "soft ignore" is okay, someone mentioned this in the past, not my terminology, just sort of scan over others posts if you don't like what they say. Hmmn.

Offline corbe

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    I survive here on 'Soft Ignore' @TomSea It's great for your Blood Pressure.
No government in the 6,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline txradioguy

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Good grief, get a hold of the hyperbole @txradioguy   It's getting the best of you.

There's nothing isolationist about wanting America's young sent to die only for what's in America's interests and national security.  And there is nothing isolationist about our bringing our soldiers home when our mission is accomplished.

For the life of me I don't understand how you can justify a father and son serving in the same war 18 years apart  --- or why you're so hell-bent on replicating this disaster everywhere and anywhere.

You know nothing about what we do or why we do it.  You just enjoy the fruits of our labor...the ability to sit on your ass in a nice air conditioned house and pontificate about how bad it is that we go to foreign shores to fight threats to the U.S. on their turf.

You don't understand why a father and son will do that because you don't know anything about selfless service or a family legacy of wearing the nations uniform.  You just think like John Kerry and the rest of the Libs that we do this because we have no other choice in life.

You're completely clueless...and it shows badly.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline txradioguy

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If Obama had done this the media would be drooling all over themselves talking about how "courageous" he was to stand up to the military, etc.  Because it's Trump, they take the neocon side and make it look like he is some kind of mad man.  Enough is right.

He abandoned an ally to their enemy.  An enemy that wasn't going to make a move until Trump retreated.  Had we stayed the Kurds and those jailed ISIS fighters wouldn't be threatened in the least.

We gave them our word.  Doesn't that count for anything anymore?  Or is it only as good until it's not politically expedient anymore?

Like I said this isn't about policy or the mythical endless wars...it's about right and wrong.

And you and some others don't seem to care about that.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline txradioguy

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If Obama had done this the media would be drooling all over themselves talking about how "courageous" he was to stand up to the military, etc.  Because it's Trump, they take the neocon side and make it look like he is some kind of mad man.  Enough is right.


There's people here that raised all kinds of hell about Obama screwing the Kurds over and abandoning other allies in the ME and how wrong that was.  Now because it's Trump the same people call it "sound foreign policy".
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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You know nothing about what we do or why we do it. 

The problem isn't that I don't know why we do half of what we do to our military @txradioguy .... the problem is our leaders don't know.  It's just more of "this is how we've always done it" hoping someday, somehow they'll actually be right.  To this I say "enough!". 

Quote
You don't understand why a father and son will do that because you don't know anything about selfless service or a family legacy of wearing the nations uniform.

I am intimately acquainted with this father and son.  And you are wrong.  I do understand and with my heart, mind and soul I know that neither agrees with what our leaders have done and continue to do with our brave warriors.  Selfless they are.  Stupid they are not.  And I am damn proud of both.

Quote
You're completely clueless...and it shows badly.

You are completely lost in a sea of emotion, unable to acknowledge the mistakes made by both the civilian and military leaders who order our young to the shores of death.  You are unable to see the failures in strategies that leave nothing more accomplished than drained American blood and treasure in their wake.  What's worse is your demand for more of the same and that all agree with you or be condemned as "clueless".  How dare you.

I am sorry that shouting "enough of the madness" is calling into question your view not only of the world but your role in it.  There's nothing I can do about this but offer you my sincere condolences --- even as I thank God for the light at the end of this long and dark tunnel.
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump


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