Author Topic: State Department blocks ambassador from speaking to Congress in Trump impeachment inquiry  (Read 2005 times)

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Offline truth_seeker

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There seems to be an impass. Didn't anybody take middle school civics, or have a Wikipedia law account?.

BTW precisely what is the alleged infraction that Trump supposedly did?

Is that specific thing, more important than the findings of the IG and Durham----you know this entire Cou 'd Etat.

If that troubles you less, then you are a damn phule
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Online XenaLee

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It's amazing to me that members of this forum defend what Pelosi is doing because of their TDS.

Ehhh.... no.   My two cents....there is no justification for defending Pelosi... ever.

So if anybody here defends Pelosi, I posit that it's not due to any TDS. 
It's because they are a damned closet DemocRat.  (sue me)
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Online XenaLee

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Doesn't matter.  Because Orange Man Bad.  All law and rules must be considered in the best possible light to get rid of him.  By Any Means Necessary.

At this point.... I'm already mad enough at the Democrats (and I am not alone re: this) ....

that I want every swingin D one of em behind bars.  And I'm being nice here, compared to what they deserve to have happen to them.   9999hair out0000
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Ehhh.... no.   My two cents....there is no justification for defending Pelosi... ever.

So if anybody here defends Pelosi, I posit that it's not due to any TDS. 
It's because they are a damned closet DemocRat.  (sue me)
No defense for Pelosi, to be sure. She's a raving moonbat, angry that she didn't get to be Hillary's right hand in the destruction of America (that's probably cost her millions, by now, too).
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Offline Victoria33

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How do you propose that the Constitution requirement that "the House of Representatives" start any impeachment inquiry?  By this reasoning, anyone and everyone in the House can start an impeachment inquiry and start subpoenaing witnesses.
@Sanguine

The House works through committees.  A member of a committee can suggest an impeachment inquiry, and then the committee either votes to start an inquiry, or not.  It is the three committee's names I posted that are more germane to consider impeachment inquiry and they are.

I think it was you who asked where the money would come from for a committee to start an inquiry.  Each committee already has a budget/money to do the work of the committee.  I should be able to find those budget amounts.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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@Sanguine

The House works through committees.  A member of a committee can suggest an impeachment inquiry, and then the committee either votes to start an inquiry, or not.  It is the three committee's names I posted that are more germane to consider impeachment inquiry and they are.

I think it was you who asked where the money would come from for a committee to start an inquiry.  Each committee already has a budget/money to do the work of the committee.  I should be able to find those budget amounts.
Have those committees voted to start the inquiries, or are these just rogue partisanship?
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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That’s how grand juries have always worked, in the standard justice system. There is no right to defense, as charges are considered. I know that you know that.

The institution of the grand jury frankly does not embrace the concept of a defense counsel. There is no provision which includes him in any facet of the proceedings, and in fact many of the rules have been deliberately drawn to exclude him. At no stage of the grand jury process is there a legal right to counsel. It is not too much to say that at its very essence the grand jury system is based on the idea of preventing a defense.

https://scholarship.law.missouri.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=2106&context=mlr

I've been told, scores of times, this is not the same as a criminal prosecution, it's a political matter.  This is obviously true because criminals are neither above nor below the law.  This is much simpler because President Trump is clearly beneath it.  Pelosi is demonstrating there isn't a law to be either above or below, it's what she says it is on any given day.

It's a Kangaroo Court, so proceed.  You got 'im now!
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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It's amazing to me that members of this forum defend what Pelosi is doing because of their TDS.

By any means necessary. Even if it means making a deal with the Devil.  Whatever it takes to get the Bad Orange Man out.  It would appear a lot of folks have been hiding their true motives.

These are the days I just want to give up, because there's nobody or nothing worth fighting for anymore.  Piss on everybody.
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
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Offline Sanguine

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@Sanguine

The House works through committees.  A member of a committee can suggest an impeachment inquiry, and then the committee either votes to start an inquiry, or not.  It is the three committee's names I posted that are more germane to consider impeachment inquiry and they are.

I think it was you who asked where the money would come from for a committee to start an inquiry.  Each committee already has a budget/money to do the work of the committee.  I should be able to find those budget amounts.

I'm talking Constitutional requirements, and you had answered that there was no (explicit) Constitutional requirement for a vote.  There is also no Constitutional requirement for committee action.  So, apparently you are saying my statement "anyone and everyone in the House can start an impeachment inquiry and start subpoenaing witnesses" is correct.

And, no, I didn't ask about funding.
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Offline Sanguine

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By any means necessary. Even if it means making a deal with the Devil.  Whatever it takes to get the Bad Orange Man out.  It would appear a lot of folks have been hiding their true motives.

These are the days I just want to give up, because there's nobody or nothing worth fighting for anymore.  Piss on everybody.

I hear ya, @Cyber Liberty.  It's damned demoralizing for sure.   
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." – George Mason, Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 1788

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Problem is, this is an obvious and ongoing Democrat ploy. If there are specific charges to be made against the POTUS, or reasons aside from partisan crap to initiate impeachment proceedings or an investigation, then do so, but this has been a fishing expedition, a prosecution looking for a charge from the git-go.

I see this as a tremendous waste of taxpayer dollars, while others who have, by their own admission, and in their own words, committed crimes go uninvestigated, and they are Legion (only they are Democrats). There is no 'equal protection under the law' here.
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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I'm talking Constitutional requirements, and you had answered that there was no (explicit) Constitutional requirement for a vote.  There is also no Constitutional requirement for committee action.  So, apparently you are saying my statement "anyone and everyone in the House can start an impeachment inquiry and start subpoenaing witnesses" is correct.

And, no, I didn't ask about funding.

There is a a slight difference.  Anybody in the majority can do those things (Al Green).  Republicans are in the minority, so they aren't allowed to call witnesses, cross examine the witnesses called, and as far as I know, during recess the Rats don't even have to tell Republicans there are hearings at all.  We hear about them from the unbiased Press (stop laughing!).  Even Grand Juries aren't as one-sided as some have said they are.

It's a kangaroo court, and my only hope is the voting public sees it as such and decides it's wrong.  Others, who we thought knew better, are fine with using any means necessary.  Philosophically speaking, they're no better than the Antifa thugs.
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Offline edpc

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I've been told, scores of times, this is not the same as a criminal prosecution, it's a political matter.  This is obviously true because criminals are neither above nor below the law.  This is much simpler because President Trump is clearly beneath it.  Pelosi is demonstrating there isn't a law to be either above or below, it's what she says it is on any given day.

It's a Kangaroo Court, so proceed.  You got 'im now!


It’s a political process, because the only consequence is removal, not incarceration. That would require another trial, once the official is removed from office. See the example of Alcee Hastings. He was impeached and removed from his position as a federal judge. Later, he was acquitted in a separate criminal trial. Unfortunately, that allowed him to run for office, again.

Other than that, the impeachment process functions the same way as an indictment, in the standard judicial process. Stop being hyperbolic and think about it. You’re smarter than that.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 03:17:42 PM by edpc »
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Online aligncare

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 999yawn
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_in_the_United_States

I guess the question comes down to does there exist a legitimate suspicion of wrongdoing, a viable predicate for beginning an impeachment inquiry? Or, as in today’s example with Trump, is it a malicious, demonstrably partisan, politically motivated attack on the president?

HELLO?  Democrats were drawing up articles of impeachment on Trump for wearing the wrong tie with that shirt, 2-days after Trump was elected!
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 03:20:56 PM by aligncare »

Offline Cyber Liberty

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It’s a political process, because the only consequence is removal, not incarceration. That would require another trial, once the official is removed from office. See the example of Alcee Hastings. He was impeached and removed from his position as a federal judge. Later, he was acquitted in a separate criminal trial. Unfortunately, that allowed him to run for office, again.

Other than that, the impeachment process functions the same way as an indictment, in the standard judicial process. Stop being hyperbolic and think about it. You’re smarter than that.

I'm just a simple retired Engineer, and I know what unjust looks like.  I think I need to just give up and say, "You are absolutely correct and Hero Peolsi is going to save us from the Bad Orange Man."  Meanwhile, I'll be pulling up the drawbridge on the Castle and let y'all decide what you want to do.  Just don't try to guess how I'll vote on anything because, as it turns out, voting doesn't matter.  It probably hasn't mattered my whole life. 

2016 was an aberration, in the end Trump will be destroyed and the country will get the government it deserves, good and hard.

I've always prided myself at being out in the middle of the whole "Orange Man Bad" fight, but the haters have been doing an excellent job of pushing me to the other side. 
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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999yawn

HELLO?  Democrats were drawing up articles of impeachment on Trump for wearing the wrong tie with that shirt, 2-days after Trump was elected!

That they have, as an old friend I miss greatly used to say, "to thunderous applause.  I'm happy for the haters, they're going to get exactly what they deserve.  Good and hard.
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
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Offline edpc

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I'm just a simple retired Engineer, and I know what unjust looks like.  I think I need to just give up and say, "You are absolutely correct and Hero Peolsi is going to save us from the Bad Orange Man.


Yeah and I’m an active medical device technician. Both of us have dealt with manuals, throughout our respective careers, and have good enough reading comprehension to figure things out. At best, Pelosi will ram a couple of articles of impeachment through the House. Since it’s a constitutional process, McConnell can’t shelve it. You’ll get your trial, with legal representation, discovery, and cross-examination. There’s no way in hell there’s 67 votes, for removal.

Pelosi won’t be ‘saving’ anyone from anything. All she will do is appease their base. It will also energize the right. It’ll be a rallying cry for both sides, generate turnout, and go either way. The admin should actually welcome it. Mulvaney just recently said impeachment will result in a 45 state victory. Unless he decides to go on his own, everyone is just gonna have to accept the fact Trump will be around until at least January 2021.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 04:03:20 PM by edpc »
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Unless he decides to go on his own, everyone is just gonna have to accept the fact Trump will be around until at least January 2021.

Fully agree.  The goal is not to remove him, it's to damage him for the election.  Al Green admitted that a couple Sundays ago.  I don't think it's a plan that's going to work for them, but it might.  I know that if I am to be in the fight, I'll be against both Democrats and Republican dead-enders.  It's OK, really, because McCain was one of those, and I got used to his railing at me decades ago.  I find Dems wrongheaded, but far more respectable than Republicans like McCain and Romney, who spend more vitriol fighting me than they do the leftists. :shrug:
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
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Offline edpc

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I find Dems wrongheaded, but far more respectable than Republicans like McCain and Romney, who spend more vitriol fighting me than they do the leftists. :shrug:


I had my problems with both, but held my nose, because I lived in the battleground state of OH, at the time. Is there any question that either one of them would have been better than Obama? For all of their faults, both recognized Putin and Russia for the geopolitical threat they would become and are.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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I had my problems with both, but held my nose, because I lived in the battleground state of OH, at the time. Is there any question that either one of them would have been better than Obama? For all of their faults, both recognized Putin and Russia for the geopolitical threat they would become and are.

I'm sure they would have been better than Obastard, and could have demonstrated it if they had run serious campaigns.  But, that's a low bar, and I'd probably be grievously disappointed as they would have things just as destructive to the country.
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
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Offline austingirl

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I'm just a simple retired Engineer, and I know what unjust looks like.  I think I need to just give up and say, "You are absolutely correct and Hero Peolsi is going to save us from the Bad Orange Man."  Meanwhile, I'll be pulling up the drawbridge on the Castle and let y'all decide what you want to do.  Just don't try to guess how I'll vote on anything because, as it turns out, voting doesn't matter.  It probably hasn't mattered my whole life. 

2016 was an aberration, in the end Trump will be destroyed and the country will get the government it deserves, good and hard.

I've always prided myself at being out in the middle of the whole "Orange Man Bad" fight, but the haters have been doing an excellent job of pushing me to the other side.

@Cyber Liberty

You are correct about the fundamental unfairness of the fake impeachment, but don't give up. The way evil Mrs. Botox is proceeding is unprecedented and that is just fine with certain members of this forum.
Principles matter. Words matter.

Offline edpc

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I'm sure they would have been better than Obastard, and could have demonstrated it if they had run serious campaigns.  But, that's a low bar, and I'd probably be grievously disappointed as they would have things just as destructive to the country.


Well, as I’ve said, here and other places, I believe that Trump will have long lasting detrimental effects on conservatism, after he’s gone. I have the luxury of being NT, since I live in brick red KS. There’s more both of us could probably say about the subject, but I don’t want to get sidetracked, as I did yesterday. So, back to our regularly scheduled program...
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline austingirl

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http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,378684.0.html

A Louisiana Republican congressman introduced a resolution Tuesday to expel Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., from the House of Representatives, the latest sign that frustration in the GOP is building as Democrats continue their impeachment inquiry against President Trump.

"Nancy Pelosi's vicious crusade against our lawfully-elected President is nothing more than a politically-motivated witch hunt and it must be stopped," Abraham said in a statement. "She has disgraced the people's House and weaponized the Speaker's gavel for her party’s political gain."

Nancy's fans will be incensed! :silly:
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Offline truth_seeker

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 I believe that Trump will have long lasting detrimental effects on conservatism, after he’s gone.

Compared to which alternative?

Clinton? McCain? Romney? 3rd party kook? Staying home?

I am amazed that people take the time to involve themselves in political forums, then to take non-viable options.

Like going to a team sports game, and sitting quietly hoping somebody else was on the field.


 
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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I'm getting to where I don't give a shit anymore.  I'm tired of fighting both sides, so I encourage the Rats and Never Trump Republicans to all get together, and carpool to Hell with themselves.  They have the same goals, and they'll get the President they want.
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
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