Author Topic: State Department blocks ambassador from speaking to Congress in Trump impeachment inquiry  (Read 1999 times)

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Offline txradioguy

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Straightball I hit it very much. Curveball, bats are afraid. I ask Jobu to come, take fear from bats.

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Offline Victoria33

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But they are being blocked from participating.  The Dem heads of the committees "investigating" Trump are not allowing the Republicans on the committees to call their own wittinesses...issue their own subpoenas and are being blocked from seeing the documents the Dems have that allegedly implicate Trump.  Now you know I'm far from being a Trump fanboy...but this is hardly a fair and impartial "investigation" Pelosi and her henchmen are conducting here.  It smacks of how she ran the House during the crafting of Obamacare when she shut the Republicans out of the entire process then as well.
@txradioguy

The Intelligence Committee, the House Oversight and Reform Committee, and the Foreign Affairs Committee, involved in this impeachment inquiry, are as a Grand Jury.  A Grand Jury does investigation which is done, in this case, by the three committees listed above.   A person cannot attend a Grand Jury to defend oneself since there is nothing to defend if the Grand Jury does not indict.  Both parties can question witnesses, read documents the committees requested.  Republicans are not blocked from any of this evidence, not blocked from questioning witnesses.  This is not a trial.

At the end of the investigation, the evidence is presented to the whole House and a vote is taken to impeach or not.  If the vote is not to impeach, that is the end of it.  If the president is impeached, takes a simple majority to impeach, the case goes to the Senate for trial.  The prosecutor is the House members sent to the Senate to present the evidence.  The defendant, Trump, is represented by his lawyers.  The Judge is the Supreme Court Judge, the Senate is the Jury.  After all this takes place, the Senate votes to convict or not, meaning to remove or not remove the president from office.  It takes a 2/3 majority of the Senate to remove the president from office.

I am hearing tonight that Trump is calling Senate Leader McConnell, three times every day to assure himself the Senate will not convict. 
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Offline txradioguy

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@txradioguy

The Intelligence Committee, the House Oversight and Reform Committee, and the Foreign Affairs Committee, involved in this impeachment inquiry, are as a Grand Jury.  A Grand Jury does investigation which is done, in this case, by the three committees listed above.   A person cannot attend a Grand Jury to defend oneself since there is nothing to defend if the Grand Jury does not indict.  Both parties can question witnesses, read documents the committees requested.  Republicans are not blocked from any of this evidence, not blocked from questioning witnesses.  This is not a trial.

At the end of the investigation, the evidence is presented to the whole House and a vote is taken to impeach or not.  If the vote is not to impeach, that is the end of it.  If the president is impeached, takes a simple majority to impeach, the case goes to the Senate for trial.  The prosecutor is the House members sent to the Senate to present the evidence.  The defendant, Trump, is represented by his lawyers.  The Judge is the Supreme Court Judge, the Senate is the Jury.  After all this takes place, the Senate votes to convict or not, meaning to remove or not remove the president from office.  It takes a 2/3 majority of the Senate to remove the president from office.

I am hearing tonight that Trump is calling Senate Leader McConnell, three times every day to assure himself the Senate will not convict.

@Victoria33

I understand how impeachment works.  Got very versed on it going back to Nixon (yes I'm that old).

But there has been no vote on the floor of the house authorizing these investigations.  And until that happens...it's just a partisan witch hunt.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline Elderberry

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@Victoria33

I understand how impeachment works.  Got very versed on it going back to Nixon (yes I'm that old).

But there has been no vote on the floor of the house authorizing these investigations.  And until that happens...it's just a partisan witch hunt.

Dang! I didn't think you're That Old! Myself, I had the misfortune of taking a political science class during the Nixon impeachment process. I do not believe that a floor vote is required to start any house investigation. Do you have a source of that bit of information?
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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 :laugh:
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Offline Victoria33

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@Victoria33   But there has been no vote on the floor of the house authorizing these investigations.  And until that happens...it's just a partisan witch hunt.
@txradioguy

A vote in the House is not required.  One was taken the past two times, but was not required.  The constitution does not call for a vote.

"There is nothing in the Constitution that requires a full House vote to launch an impeachment inquiry," Berkeley Law School Dean Erwin Chemerinsky told Newsweek. "That has been done before, but it is not a constitutional requirement. President Trump is wrong in saying that it is not a legitimate impeachment inquiry without a floor vote."

This impeachment process is going "by the book".  One may not like the "book", but the law is the law and the facts are the facts.  I have been accused of liking Pelosi and liking the Democrats and hating Trump as I have presented the facts.  It matters not to me these people say that - I will continue to present the facts. 

As for Trump, I believe his behavior is that of a "Malignant Narcissist" and should not be president.  I consider him a danger to the country.  I do not hate him, as others say, but I do think, due to his behavior I evaluate after many years of evaluating human behavior, he is not qualified to lead this country.
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Offline txradioguy

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Dang! I didn't think you're That Old! Myself, I had the misfortune of taking a political science class during the Nixon impeachment process. I do not believe that a floor vote is required to start any house investigation. Do you have a source of that bit of information?

Technically you're correct.  There's nothing in the Constitution that states there has to be a vote.  But there is precedent....which the Dems only care about if one of their protected classes or imaginary rights are threatened.

Going back to the first first Presidential impeachment...Andrew Jackson in 1868...an impeachment resolution was introduced in the House and a vote of the entire House of Representatives was taken to authorize the impeachment proceedings to begin.  Nixon resigned before the vote could be taken...and the House voted in favor of impeachment for Clinton as we all know.

There is the precedent for introducing a formal resolution to the full House and having them vote.

Ever single time there has been a vote before the inquiry began.  But now Pelosi is setting a very dangerous new standard for impeaching  President in order to protect Red State Dems up for reelection next year...one the Founding Fathers fought to avoid in the carefully worded requirement of what rises to an impeachable offense.

They didn't want one party or a rogue group in the House doing exactly what is happening now...and that is attempt to blackmail the President just because they don't like him.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Cyber Liberty

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@txradioguy

A vote in the House is not required.  One was taken the past two times, but was not required.  The constitution does not call for a vote.

"There is nothing in the Constitution that requires a full House vote to launch an impeachment inquiry," Berkeley Law School Dean Erwin Chemerinsky told Newsweek. "That has been done before, but it is not a constitutional requirement. President Trump is wrong in saying that it is not a legitimate impeachment inquiry without a floor vote."

This impeachment process is going "by the book".  One may not like the "book", but the law is the law and the facts are the facts.  I have been accused of liking Pelosi and liking the Democrats and hating Trump as I have presented the facts.  It matters not to me these people say that - I will continue to present the facts. 

As for Trump, I believe his behavior is that of a "Malignant Narcissist" and should not be president.  I consider him a danger to the country.  I do not hate him, as others say, but I do think, due to his behavior I evaluate after many years of evaluating human behavior, he is not qualified to lead this country.

OK, so we're clear on where you stand on Impeachment. :shrug:
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Offline txradioguy

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@txradioguy

A vote in the House is not required.  One was taken the past two times, but was not required.  The constitution does not call for a vote.

"There is nothing in the Constitution that requires a full House vote to launch an impeachment inquiry," Berkeley Law School Dean Erwin Chemerinsky told Newsweek. "That has been done before, but it is not a constitutional requirement. President Trump is wrong in saying that it is not a legitimate impeachment inquiry without a floor vote."

This impeachment process is going "by the book".  One may not like the "book", but the law is the law and the facts are the facts.  I have been accused of liking Pelosi and liking the Democrats and hating Trump as I have presented the facts.  It matters not to me these people say that - I will continue to present the facts. 

As for Trump, I believe his behavior is that of a "Malignant Narcissist" and should not be president.  I consider him a danger to the country.  I do not hate him, as others say, but I do think, due to his behavior I evaluate after many years of evaluating human behavior, he is not qualified to lead this country.

No Victoria it's not going by the book as I just explained.  I know you want it to go the one sided way Pelosi is doing it because its self serving on your part towards your well known dislike for Trump...but there is historical precedent for not doing it this way.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Cyber Liberty

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No Victoria it's not going by the book as I just explained.  I know you want it to go the one sided way Pelosi is doing it because its self serving on your part towards your well known dislike for Trump...but there is historical precedent for not doing it this way.

By Any Means Necessary.
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Offline txradioguy

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By Any Means Necessary.

The military has another term that applies to this situation...Mutually Assured Destruction.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline aligncare

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The fact that a floor vote isn’t required isn’t the point, but rather that the investigation lacks a clear and understandable predicate to even raise suspicion of Trump wrongdoing, plus it lacks bipartisan support. lacking those, any impeachment inquiry would appear to the neutral observer to be nakedly political and a cynical move designed only to damage Trump for the upcoming election.

Offline Once-Ler

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Technically you're correct.  There's nothing in the Constitution that states there has to be a vote.  But there is precedent....
@txradioguy
There was precedent before the Senate used the Nuclear Option.  Now there is precedent after.
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Offline txradioguy

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@txradioguy
There was precedent before the Senate used the Nuclear Option.  Now there is precedent after.

You're right...Harry Reid set the precedent on using the Nuclear Option to stuff the courts with Progressive hard left judges.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Elderberry

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Technically you're correct.  There's nothing in the Constitution that states there has to be a vote.  But there is precedent....which the Dems only care about if one of their protected classes or imaginary rights are threatened.

Going back to the first first Presidential impeachment...Andrew Jackson in 1868...an impeachment resolution was introduced in the House and a vote of the entire House of Representatives was taken to authorize the impeachment proceedings to begin.  Nixon resigned before the vote could be taken...and the House voted in favor of impeachment for Clinton as we all know.

There is the precedent for introducing a formal resolution to the full House and having them vote.

Ever single time there has been a vote before the inquiry began.  But now Pelosi is setting a very dangerous new standard for impeaching  President in order to protect Red State Dems up for reelection next year...one the Founding Fathers fought to avoid in the carefully worded requirement of what rises to an impeachable offense.

They didn't want one party or a rogue group in the House doing exactly what is happening now...and that is attempt to blackmail the President just because they don't like him.

It appears that for Nixon, investigations were performed before any House floor vote took place.

Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impeachment_process_against_Richard_Nixon

An impeachment process against Richard Nixon began in the United States House of Representatives on October 30, 1973, following the "Saturday Night Massacre" episode of the Watergate scandal. The House Judiciary Committee set up an impeachment inquiry staff and began investigations into possible impeachable offenses by Richard Nixon, the 37th President of the United States. The process was formally initiated on February 6, 1974, when the House of Representatives passed a resolution, H.Res. 803, giving the Judiciary Committee authority to investigate whether sufficient grounds existed to impeach Nixon[1] of high crimes and misdemeanors, primarily related to Watergate.
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Offline Sanguine

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The fact that a floor vote isn’t required isn’t the point, but rather that the investigation lacks a clear and understandable predicate to even raise suspicion of Trump wrongdoing, plus it lacks bipartisan support. lacking those, any impeachment inquiry would appear to the neutral observer to be nakedly political and a cynical move designed only to damage Trump for the upcoming election.

That's it very clearly.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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The fact that a floor vote isn’t required isn’t the point, but rather that the investigation lacks a clear and understandable predicate to even raise suspicion of Trump wrongdoing, plus it lacks bipartisan support. lacking those, any impeachment inquiry would appear to the neutral observer to be nakedly political and a cynical move designed only to damage Trump for the upcoming election.

Add to this terrific post the "investigation" is being done in secret and the minority party is unable to cross-examine or call witnesses of their own.

Quote
During the Nixon and Clinton impeachment inquiries, House rules allowed the president’s attorneys to be present for all sessions related to impeachment, to cross-examine any witnesses and to present evidence of their own

https://www.wsj.com/articles/impeachment-basics-what-to-know-about-the-process-11570661211
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Offline txradioguy

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It appears that for Nixon, investigations were performed before any House floor vote took place.

But you'll notice that even with Nixon there was a formal resolution brought forth...the one thing missing from this sham of an inquiry.  Pelosi won't bring one to the floor because she knows it will fail.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Elderberry

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But you'll notice that even with Nixon there was a formal resolution brought forth...the one thing missing from this sham of an inquiry.  Pelosi won't bring one to the floor because she knows it will fail.

Yes! She knows the reaction by the voting public will see it as a totally political attack on Trump.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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It appears that for Nixon, investigations were performed before any House floor vote took place.

Investigations were performed, but were there hearings before the vote of the House?  We're already doing hearings this time around.
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Offline Victoria33

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No Victoria it's not going by the book as I just explained.  I know you want it to go the one sided way Pelosi is doing it because its self serving on your part towards your well known dislike for Trump...but there is historical precedent for not doing it this way.
@txradioguy

tx, thought you knew me better than that.  This has nothing to do with Trump - this is about facts - the law. The last two times there was an impeachment inquiry, a vote was taken but not required - it did not set precedent since it can't as the constitution is the law, not a suggestion.  You cannot take away or add to the constitution just because you want to do it.  Take a million votes for impeachment inquiry and that does not add a vote into constitutional law - this law is our bedrock law and meant to be so it could not be changed on a whim. 

I have made many posts on this thread about the law, the facts.  Read them for factual information.  I also think Trump has a serious personality disorder and should not be president but that has nothing to do with law/facts.  I have no opinion about Pelosi - she is who she is, and the law is the law no matter who is House Leader - Republican or Democrat, law doesn't care who it is.  Neither do I when it comes to law/facts.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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The fact that a floor vote isn’t required isn’t the point, but rather that the investigation lacks a clear and understandable predicate to even raise suspicion of Trump wrongdoing, plus it lacks bipartisan support. lacking those, any impeachment inquiry would appear to the neutral observer to be nakedly political and a cynical move designed only to damage Trump for the upcoming election.

I think Pelosi actually wants it to appear nakedly political.  It's for the benefit of the broad Rat base, who would assassinate Trump if they could.
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
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Offline Victoria33

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I think Pelosi actually wants it to appear nakedly political.  It's for the benefit of the broad Rat base, who would assassinate Trump if they could.
@Cyber Liberty
@txradioguy

"...plus it lacks bipartisan support."

This inquiry investigation does not require a vote of the entire House - and every committee has Democrats and Republicans on it - once the investigation is done and presented to the full House - that is when the entire House, every Republican, every Democrat, every Independent (if there is one in the House), WILL VOTE.  If more vote not to impeach, that is it.  If more vote to impeach, he is impeached (same as indicted in the real world).

If impeached, Trump gets a full trial in the Senate.  Through his lawyers, he can present any evidence to the full Senate as they are the Jury.  This is his due process, present anything he wants.

Am done with this subject.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,378684.0.html

A Louisiana Republican congressman introduced a resolution Tuesday to expel Speaker Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., from the House of Representatives, the latest sign that frustration in the GOP is building as Democrats continue their impeachment inquiry against President Trump.

"Nancy Pelosi's vicious crusade against our lawfully-elected President is nothing more than a politically-motivated witch hunt and it must be stopped," Abraham said in a statement. "She has disgraced the people's House and weaponized the Speaker's gavel for her party’s political gain."

Nancy's fans will be incensed! :silly:
Dang! (Yes, that is one way to get her out, and Constitutional).
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Offline Smokin Joe

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@Cyber Liberty
@txradioguy

"...plus it lacks bipartisan support."

This inquiry investigation does not require a vote of the entire House - and every committee has Democrats and Republicans on it - once the investigation is done and presented to the full House - that is when the entire House, every Republican, every Democrat, every Independent (if there is one in the House), WILL VOTE.  If more vote not to impeach, that is it.  If more vote to impeach, he is impeached (same as indicted in the real world).

If impeached, Trump gets a full trial in the Senate.  Through his lawyers, he can present any evidence to the full Senate as they are the Jury.  This is his due process, present anything he wants.

Am done with this subject.
Are those committee votes recorded, and if so, can they be exposed? I would wager that partisan lines are drawn, but GOP defectors might hurt their chances for reelection, depending on where they are from.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression


There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.


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