Author Topic: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds  (Read 7361 times)

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Offline Bigun

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I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for that to happen any time soon.

I'm not about to hold my breath waiting for OUR national government to do ANYTHING that is actually in the best interests of the great majority of people in this country @txradioguy.  They will, however, do EVERYTHING possible to preserve the swamp that is Washington exactly as it is for as long as they can.

Offline txradioguy

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I'm not about to hold my breath waiting for OUR national government to do ANYTHING that is actually in the best interests of the great majority of people in this country @txradioguy.  They will, however, do EVERYTHING possible to preserve the swamp that is Washington exactly as it is for as long as they can.

Yeah...sadly they will do just that.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Offline txradioguy

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And for those on here that say we should expel Turkey from NATO if we don't like what they are doing...well I've been doing some research on that.

There are no specific provisions for expelling a NATO member.

Hate to ruin a talking point...but that's the facts.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Once-Ler

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https://twitter.com/DanCrenshawTX/status/1182304234991243264

Dan Crenshaw @DanCrenshawTX
The great irony of the “no more endless wars” camp’s argument is that removing our small and cost-effective force from Northern Syria is causing more war, not less.

Our presence there was not meant to engage in endless wars, it was there to deter further warfare.
9:37 AM · Oct 10, 2019·Twitter for iPhone
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump
I JUST GOT IMPEACHED FOR MAKING A PERFECT PHONE CALL!
2:39 PM · Jan 16, 2020
https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1217909231946477575

Offline mystery-ak

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There are several threads on this topic...it is a hot issue that can be debated without personal insults
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Offline TomSea

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Okay.  So your "alliance" defines an alliance of convenience ... one to fight ISIS.  And when this fight is done, so are we. 

Period.

Thanks for clarifying @TomSea

Well, the fight didn't end and Brett McGurk wrote:

Quote
Both Obama and Trump rejected that option, and in May 2017, Trump decided to directly arm the YPG to ensure that it could take Raqqa from ISIS.

American diplomats were able to manage the resulting tensions with Turkey thanks to the U.S. military’s presence in Syria.

https://www.foreignaffairs.com/articles/syria/2019-04-16/hard-truths-syria

So, according to McGurk, contrary to the narrative that this alliance all formed under Obama, Trump made the decision to directly arm the YPG to take Raqqa from ISIS. So, there is some responsibility there.


While you worked awesome deeds we could not hope for,such as had not been heard of from of old. No ear has ever heard, no eye ever seen, any God but you working such deeds for those who wait for him.

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Offline edpc

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There are no specific provisions for expelling a NATO member.


That’s true, but a collective effort by the other members to marginalize them would probably make them leave, on their own, similar to what France did in the 60s. Problem is, the leader of the strongest NATO member says the organization is or isn’t obsolete, on any given day. Good luck forming a coalition.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline txradioguy

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That’s true, but a collective effort by the other members to marginalize them would probably make them leave, on their own, similar to what France did in the 60s. Problem is, the leader of the strongest NATO member says the organization is or isn’t obsolete, on any given day. Good luck forming a coalition.

And most of the EU that are also NATO members are too scared of their own shadow to stand up to Erdogan. Which is why he’s able to get away with the threat he made today.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Sanguine

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And for those on here that say we should expel Turkey from NATO if we don't like what they are doing...well I've been doing some research on that.

There are no specific provisions for expelling a NATO member.

Hate to ruin a talking point...but that's the facts.

So, are you saying Nancy Pelosi can just do it?   :laugh:

Offline TomSea

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McMasters and others are on right now on Cspan discussing all of these things, I think it is a live FDD (Foundation for Developing Democracies) meeting.


While you worked awesome deeds we could not hope for,such as had not been heard of from of old. No ear has ever heard, no eye ever seen, any God but you working such deeds for those who wait for him.

Isaiah 64:2-3

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Offline sneakypete

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[No name calling.  --Mod1]

@Mod1  @txradioguy

Who did I call a name in that post?
It takes an special kind of "Stoopid" to make Trump look like a defenseless victim and gain public sympathy,but damned if the Dims didn't pull it off!

Offline sneakypete

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  But hey...anything to justify Trumps retreat right?

 

@txradioguy

Once again,you are so emotionally involved in this,WHAT is preventing YOU from going there and picking up a rifle?
It takes an special kind of "Stoopid" to make Trump look like a defenseless victim and gain public sympathy,but damned if the Dims didn't pull it off!

Offline skeeter

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And BTW:  WE do not need to launch a war with Iran to get rid of those B@stards!  All we need do is to back the right people internally in Iran and they will take care of that for us.

It does seem we make the most progress when we simply arm those in the region with an immediate stake in the outcome that lines up with our own.

Having said that I'm outta this debate. I agree with those on the other side of it on too many other important issues.

Offline sneakypete

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At least someone is showing leadership and stepping up to help the Kurds.

@txradioguy

ROFLMAO! Yeah,Israel stepping into the breach by sending Jewish fighters should really make things there as smooth as butta,huh?

What could POSSIBLY go wrong if that happened?
It takes an special kind of "Stoopid" to make Trump look like a defenseless victim and gain public sympathy,but damned if the Dims didn't pull it off!

Offline Jazzhead

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Based on what I know,  count me as a supporter of the President's position that we need to extricate U.S. troops from Syria, as well as more generally from the Middle East.   These are tribal conflicts that have endured, in some cases, for centuries.   The fracking revolution that led to our renewed energy independence ought to give us the ability to at least get our Bravest out of harms way of these endlessly fighting tribes.   Let 'em settle their own rancid and never-ending squabbles and hatreds. I've not advocating isolationism with respect to the Middle East - we should maintain vigorous diplomacy and the ability to project air power.   But I strain to see the continued need for boots on the ground in these God-forsaken hellholes.   
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Offline txradioguy

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So, are you saying Nancy Pelosi can just do it?   :laugh:

If she were do to that....it would be the only time in my life I'd every support anything she did.  :laugh:
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline txradioguy

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Based on what I know,   

You'd have been smart to stop right there.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline txradioguy

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@txradioguy

ROFLMAO! Yeah,Israel stepping into the breach by sending Jewish fighters should really make things there as smooth as butta,huh?

What could POSSIBLY go wrong if that happened?

I'm just quote this without any further comment as an example of how little you know of Israels dealings and interactions with other Muslim countries and ethnic groups in the ME.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Sanguine

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Based on what I know,  count me as a supporter of the President's position that we need to extricate U.S. troops from Syria, as well as more generally from the Middle East.   These are tribal conflicts that have endured, in some cases, for centuries.   The fracking revolution that led to our renewed energy independence ought to give us the ability to at least get our Bravest out of harms way of these endlessly fighting tribes.   Let 'em settle their own rancid and never-ending squabbles and hatreds. I've not advocating isolationism with respect to the Middle East - we should maintain vigorous diplomacy and the ability to project air power.   But I strain to see the continued need for boots on the ground in these God-forsaken hellholes.   

@Jazzhead, you and I are in agreement here.

Offline Sanguine

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It's almost as if this Kurd thing was designed to take some other things off the front page for a bit.   :pondering:

Offline XenaLee

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It's almost as if this Kurd thing was designed to take some other things off the front page for a bit.   :pondering:

Wag the dog/puss?   
Time for unity in America! (better late than never)


Online catfish1957

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Wag the dog/puss?

If he was, I 'd hope he would be smarter than using this controversial action.
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Offline TomSea

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Based on what I know,  count me as a supporter of the President's position that we need to extricate U.S. troops from Syria, as well as more generally from the Middle East.   These are tribal conflicts that have endured, in some cases, for centuries.   The fracking revolution that led to our renewed energy independence ought to give us the ability to at least get our Bravest out of harms way of these endlessly fighting tribes.   Let 'em settle their own rancid and never-ending squabbles and hatreds. I've not advocating isolationism with respect to the Middle East - we should maintain vigorous diplomacy and the ability to project air power.   But I strain to see the continued need for boots on the ground in these God-forsaken hellholes.   

A few people I have seen make the case, "this is a tribal war, it's been going on forever".

Sorry, Christians may have been the first innocent victims in yesterday's attack.  So, this depersonalizes what is at stake.

No 2003 invasion, no Bush, no Obama and maybe no persecution of Christians, Christians who have btw, died fighting ISIS.

Some reports say Christians were among the first victims yesterday:

Quote
Wladimir
@vvanwilgenburg
·
4h
Christian fighter of @SyriacMFS
 is not surprised two Christians were the first to be killed in the Turkish attack in the Al-Beshayriyyeh neighborhood in Al-Qamishli city Wednesday. "This is what Erdogan wants. Especially the Christians are his first target."



https://twitter.com/vvanwilgenburg/status/1182283899013079042

The SDF, Arabs, Kurds, Christians, did the dirty work on the ground. I find this a morally bankrupt philosophy on this conflict.

Try the view in 2003, not in 2019 after Bush and Obama and plenty of others.  And Trump possibly has severely erred.  We have a moral responsibility, the war was mismanaged,  the flames of sectarianism fanned.

McMaster is talking about whether something like this was going to happen anyway, meaning the Turkish invasion.  It does seem like sooner or later, this was something that had to be confronted. Europe though, could do much more, not for it all to be up to us.
« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 01:33:08 PM by TomSea »


While you worked awesome deeds we could not hope for,such as had not been heard of from of old. No ear has ever heard, no eye ever seen, any God but you working such deeds for those who wait for him.

Isaiah 64:2-3

Marco Rubio twitter

Offline TomSea

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Backstab on your own time, not on mine.  Yes, Trump may have erred, McMaster just said, maybe he didn't fully understand the operations he was told by Erdogan. It's no simple matter, as of now, I'd find it hard to vote for Trump but we'd see.  Still, might be better than the alternative, we don't know everything about this.

This is a bit like Kennedy's Bay of Pigs.

Error 404 (Not Found)!!1


"Masters Of War"

Come you masters of war
You that build all the guns
You that build the death planes
You that build all the bombs
You that hide behind walls
You that hide behind desks
I just want you to know
I can see through your masks

You that never done nothin'
But build to destroy
You play with my world
Like it's your little toy
You put a gun in my hand
And you hide from my eyes
And you turn and run farther
When the fast bullets fly

Like Judas of old
You lie and deceive
A world war can be won
You want me to believe
But I see through your eyes
And I see through your brain
Like I see through the water
That runs down my drain

You fasten all the triggers
For the others to fire
Then you set back and watch
When the death count gets higher
You hide in your mansion'
As young people's blood
Flows out of their bodies
And is buried in the mud

You've thrown the worst fear
That can ever be hurled
Fear to bring children
Into the world
For threatening my baby
Unborn and unnamed
You ain't worth the blood
That runs in your veins

How much do I know
To talk out of turn
You might say that I'm young
You might say I'm unlearned
But there's one thing I know
Though I'm younger than you
That even Jesus would never
Forgive what you do

Let me ask you one question
Is your money that good
Will it buy you forgiveness
Do you think that it could
I think you will find
When your death takes its toll
All the money you made
Will never buy back your soul

And I hope that you die
And your death'll come soon
I will follow your casket
In the pale afternoon
And I'll watch while you're lowered
Down to your deathbed
And I'll stand over your grave
'Til I'm sure that you're dead
« Last Edit: October 10, 2019, 01:51:18 PM by TomSea »


While you worked awesome deeds we could not hope for,such as had not been heard of from of old. No ear has ever heard, no eye ever seen, any God but you working such deeds for those who wait for him.

Isaiah 64:2-3

Marco Rubio twitter

Offline Bigun

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https://twitter.com/DanCrenshawTX/status/1182304234991243264

Dan Crenshaw @DanCrenshawTX
The great irony of the “no more endless wars” camp’s argument is that removing our small and cost-effective force from Northern Syria is causing more war, not less.

Our presence there was not meant to engage in endless wars, it was there to deter further warfare.
9:37 AM · Oct 10, 2019·Twitter for iPhone

Dan Crenshaw is a man who has walked the walk as well as talking the talk and should be listened to @Once-Ler.

He couldn't be any more right about this.


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