Author Topic: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds  (Read 6286 times)

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Offline txradioguy

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I did.  And, I'm staying with it.

Well you stick with that and you can...well..nevermind...
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Supporting freedom fighters agaisnt ISIS and Syrian forces.

You know these "freedom fighters" are trying to establish an independent state within Turkey.  What would we call the charmers who'd try this with the United States?   :pondering:
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Offline Sanguine

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You know these "freedom fighters" are trying to establish an independent state within Turkey.  What would we call the charmers who'd try this with the United States?   :pondering:

A separate communist state.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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A separate communist state.

First, I think we would call them "the enemy" and fight them tooth and nail to keep our sovereignty intact.

But maybe that's just me.   happy77
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Online aligncare

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Correct me if I’m wrong, I’m a bit fuzzy on the facts, but don’t the Kurds have a history of ethnic cleansing against the Christians in Iraq, Syria and Turkey? I believe this is an underreported aspect of the Kurdish community.

Offline txradioguy

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Correct me if I’m wrong, I’m a bit fuzzy on the facts, but don’t the Kurds have a history of ethnic cleansing against the Christians in Iraq, Syria and Turkey? I believe this is an underreported aspect of the Kurdish community.

No they don't.  In fact the Kurds that are being attacked in Syria live in close proximity to and have dealing with Christian groups and villages nearby.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Offline Chosen Daughter

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@txradioguy

It is the Kurds holding the thousands of ISIS prisoners.  Wipe out the Kurd military and ISIS is loose again.

Well Trumps not worried.  He says they are going to go to Europe.  Another totally asinine thing to say.

The Independent
Trump not worried about Isis fighters fleeing Syria because ‘they’re going to be escaping to Europe’
The IndependentOctober 9, 2019, 10:24 PM UTC

Donald Trump has suggested he is not concerned some Isis fighters could escape in the chaos of a Turkish attack on Syria because “they’re going to be escaping to Europe”.

The US president abruptly removed 50 US troops out of northern Syria, allowing Turkey to attack America's Kurdish allies unimpeded.
The withdrawal prompted fears that some of the thousands of Isis fighters held by Kurdish-led forces might escape in the aftermath of the Turkish incursion.

Asked if he was concerned about some of the Isis fighters escaping and posing a threat elsewhere, Mr Trump said: “Well they’re going to be escaping to Europe.

“That’s where they want to go. They want to go back to their homes.”

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/news/trump-not-worried-isis-fighters-222439834.html
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Online TomSea

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If they seem to be good enough for our military, well, that's kind of why that NY Post article earlier was important, they fought ISIS, that's good enough for me.

Out of all of these, which would one want to live under:

The Mullahs of Iran/Hezbollah
Erdogan
Assad
Putin
PKK

It's a rough neighborhood, every has some big problems, what is the least worse?

We made a deal and we should stick with it... I don't know, maybe we have to arrest guilty parties, that was discussed previously.

Still, probably not enough to abandon them, per Haley, Cruz, Rubio, Lindsay and so on... probably Sasse and others too.

There's got to be more to the dumb decision that so many are horrified about.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Well Trumps not worried.  He says they are going to go to Europe.  Another totally asinine thing to say. 

Why?  The prisoners are *from* European countries.  Europe refusing to take them back and try them is what set all this in motion.
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Online TomSea

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Well Trumps not worried.  He says they are going to go to Europe.  Another totally asinine thing to say.

The Independent
Trump not worried about Isis fighters fleeing Syria because ‘they’re going to be escaping to Europe’
The IndependentOctober 9, 2019, 10:24 PM UTC

Donald Trump has suggested he is not concerned some Isis fighters could escape in the chaos of a Turkish attack on Syria because “they’re going to be escaping to Europe”.

The US president abruptly removed 50 US troops out of northern Syria, allowing Turkey to attack America's Kurdish allies unimpeded.
The withdrawal prompted fears that some of the thousands of Isis fighters held by Kurdish-led forces might escape in the aftermath of the Turkish incursion.

Asked if he was concerned about some of the Isis fighters escaping and posing a threat elsewhere, Mr Trump said: “Well they’re going to be escaping to Europe.

“That’s where they want to go. They want to go back to their homes.”

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/news/trump-not-worried-isis-fighters-222439834.html

Yeah, is that worse than having a point of view like yours that might have ISIS still operating full-force? I don't think so.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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We made a deal and we should stick with it...

What deal did we make and with whom @TomSea

Thanks.
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Online TomSea

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Oh by the way, is this rationale enough to make you abandon Christians? Because SDF are Christians too

National Review:
Quote
....The predominantly Christian unit is a small but symbolically important part of the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF), which have encircled ISIS and are slowly closing in.

The Syriac officers point out that those who’ve joined their ranks — including Muslims, both Arabs and Kurds, foreigners, and other Christians — are a symbol of the Syria for which they are fighting: a federated Syria, an alternative to Baathism and Islamism. “For the first time in our history, we are fighting for each other,” says one Syriac commander.

https://www.nationalreview.com/2017/10/syrian-war-syriac-military-council-christians-muslims-arabs-kurds-federated-syria-versus-baathism-islamism-isis/

So, don't forget this, SDF are Christians too; Kurds spilled their blood for or more than anyone.

Remember, under EC, that whole sticky under world news was for Kurds and as it is, I've tried to post some articles on the Kurds, not that much interest... so honestly, love all the input but let's not become "instant experts" on them.

We made a deal 'apparently', Obama and company because no one else was working out to fight ISIS.

Bush and Obama created the mess, it's gotten slightly better, even with this turmoil, real genocide was going on.

So, you got that? CHRISTIANS who have been there since the New Testament times were being wiped out, don't tell me what's bad.


Offline txradioguy

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Yeah, is that worse than having a point of view like yours that might have ISIS still operating full-force? I don't think so.

You yourself pointed out that there's a report a Turkish bomb hit a prison where ISIS prisoners are being kept.

There has been one attempted jailbreak already and some of the guards at the prisons are leaving their posts.

Tell me again exactly who's viewpoint is going to have ISIS back operating at full force?
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Online 240B

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As a foreign entity, only a fool would ally with America without expecting that America is going to abandon them sooner or later.
Shah of Iran
Egypt
South Vietnam
North Korea
Afghan villages and leaders
Iraqi villages and leaders
Numerous South American countries and groups
and on and on
America has a history of jumping in on one side or the other of a conflict all the way up to the point that they get tired of it and then pull out. Leaving all of their allies at the mercy of whatever enemy fills the void. It has happened over and over and over again.

Since WWII, America has only fought to stalemate. America never fights to a decisive victory. That is why we currently have what is being called "endless wars" (predicted by Orwell, btw). It is fine for America to pick some arbitrary point to say, 'That's all. We're done. We are going home.' But that leaves anyone who joined with us or supported us holding the bag. And they are frequently executed.

I would never act as a foreign spy for America. As a foreign group, I would never depend on America for anything. I would accept whatever help may be offered, but not to the point of dependency. America is way too fickle for me to bet my life on them.
You cannot "COEXIST" with people who want to kill you.
If they kill their own with no conscience, there is nothing to stop them from killing you.
Rational fear and anger at vicious murderous Islamic terrorists is the same as irrational antisemitism, according to the Leftists.

Online TomSea

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What deal did we make and with whom @TomSea

Thanks.

Why? Would you rather ISIS still be in full power?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Democratic_Forces

YPG are people's protection units, they are not PKK. PKK might have links or they might not.

Whole books are written on it, 2015, the SDF was formed. One can read up on it for themselves.

Offline txradioguy

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As a foreign entity, only a fool would ally with America without expecting that America is going to abandon them sooner or later.
Shah of Iran
Egypt
South Vietnam
North Korea
Afghan villages and leaders
Iraqi villages and leaders
Numerous South American countries and groups
and on and on
America has a history of jumping in on one side or the other of a conflict all the way up to the point that they get tired of it and then pull out. Leaving all of their allies at the mercy of whatever enemy fills the void. It has happened over and over and over again.

Since WWII, America has only fought to stalemate. America never fights to a decisive victory. That is why we currently have what is being called "endless wars" (predicted by Orwell, btw). It is fine for America to pick some arbitrary point to say, 'That's all. We're done. We are going home.' But that leaves anyone who joined with us or supported us holding the bag. And they are frequently executed.

I would never act as a foreign spy for America. As a foreign group, I would never depend on America for anything. I would accept whatever help may be offered, but not to the point of dependency. America is way too fickle for me to bet my life on them.

Well said.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Online TomSea

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You yourself pointed out that there's a report a Turkish bomb hit a prison where ISIS prisoners are being kept.

There has been one attempted jailbreak already and some of the guards at the prisons are leaving their posts.

Tell me again exactly who's viewpoint is going to have ISIS back operating at full force?

I guess yours, with your point of view too, if you didn't vote for Trump, the Caliphate would have continued. It was losing ground by the end of Obama's term, this is so but it might have taken longer, victories were so-so.

Online TomSea

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Turkey's always been there, Turkey has always been rumored to be supporting Jihadist militias if not ISIS.  Turkey has always presented itself as a problem.

Offline txradioguy

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I guess yours, with your point of view too, if you didn't vote for Trump, the Caliphate would have continued. It was losing ground by the end of Obama's term, this is so but it might have taken longer, victories were so-so.

That's a real real lame attempt to lump me in as a NT Tommy Boy.  Real lame.  And at the same time you manage to defend how Obama handled that situation.  Nice.

It wasn't losing ground at the end of Obama's term.  It was spreading because of his feckless attempts to train rebels and instead he ended up arming the Taliban.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Online TomSea

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Don't take my word for it, ask Senator Cruz, ask Senator Graham, ask Senator Rubio under whose administration ISIS was beaten back. They'll tell you, Graham is rightfully mad about Trump's decision but that doesn't change history or the fact that the Military under Trump along with the SDF busted the Caliphate in Syria. Ask them, don't play games with me.

Some people, if they weren't finding fault with Trump on one thing, they'd be doing it on another thing. That's just self-evident.

I'm not here for one-upmanship, lying, I've been vocal about this on Trump since it happened.  This is a forum where issues are discussed.

Those Senators have said it, Trump is dropping the ball now and it's disappointing but as said, don't take my word for it because they all have said so.... if anyone thinks they are going to bowl me over on this.   
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 11:38:13 PM by TomSea »

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Why? Would you rather ISIS still be in full power?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Democratic_Forces

YPG are people's protection units, they are not PKK. PKK might have links or they might not.

Whole books are written on it, 2015, the SDF was formed. One can read up on it for themselves.

I don't understand your reply @TomSea   You referenced an agreement we made.  I'll ask again ... what is the agreement and with whom?

Thanks.
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Online TomSea

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Quote

Three YPG internationalist volunteers killed in Raqqa battle against Islamic State

Three internationalist volunteers of the People's Defense (Protection) Unit (YPG) have been killed in clashes with the jihadist Islamic State (ISIS) group in Raqqa, northern Syria.

Briton Luke Rutter (Soro Zinar), 22, and Americans Robert Grodt (Demhat Goldman), 28, and Nicholas Alan Warden (Rodi Deysie), 29, lost their lives in battles on 5-6 July.

The YPG released a statement sending condolences to the families of the men and said they had "fought bravely against Daesh [ISIS] fascism and terrorism."

...

List of International Volunteers killed in action in Rojava-Democratic Federation of Northern Syria
1. Ashley Johnston 23 Feb 2015 AUS
2. Kosta Scurfield 2 Mar 2015 UK/GR
3. Ivana Hoffman 7 March 2015 GER
4. Mihemed Kerim 5 May 2015 IRAN
5. Keith Broomfield 3 Jun 2015 USA
6. Arnavut Karker. 26 June 2015 AL
7. Reece Harding 27 June 2015 AUS
8. Kevin Jochim 6 Jul 2015. GER
9. John Gallagher 4 Nov 2015 CAN
10. Gunter Hellstern 23 Feb 2016 GER
11. Mario Nunes 3 May 2016 POR
12. Jamie Bright 25 May 2016 AUS
13. Levi Jonathan Shirley 14 July 2016 USA
14. Dean Carl Evans 21 July 2016 UK
15. Martin Gruden 27 July 2016 SLO
16. Firaz Kardo 3 August 2016 SWE/EGYPT
17. Jordan MacTaggart 3 August 2016 USA
18. William Savage 10 Aug 2016 USA
19. Michael Israel 24 Nov 2016 USA
20. Anton Leschek 24 Nov 2016 GER.
21. Ryan Lock 21 Dec 2016 UK
22. Nazzareno Tassone 21 Dec 2016 CAN
23. Paolo Todd 15 January 2017 USA
24. Albert A Harrington 25 January 2017 USA
25. Merdali Süleymanov 23 April 2017 KAZ
26. Robert Grodt 5 July 2017 USA
27. Nicolas A Warden 5 July 2017 USA
28. Luke Rutter 5 July 2017 UK

http://kurdishquestion.com/article/3964-three-ypg-internationalist-volunteers-killed-in-raqqa-battle-against-islamic-state

And all of this is info that is at least, 2 years old if not more. So, all of these foreigners went and fought against an evil that is pretty much equal to the Nazis. I'm not going to be whining about now, what the YPG or whatever thinks. They made the sacrifice.

Online TomSea

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I don't understand your reply @TomSea   You referenced an agreement we made.  I'll ask again ... what is the agreement and with whom?

Thanks.

Glad to help out!

Quote
Foundation
The establishment of the SDF was announced on 11 October 2015 during a press conference in al-Hasakah.[120] The alliance built on longstanding previous cooperation between the founding partners. While the People's Protection Units (Yekîneyên Parastina Gel, YPG) and the Women's Protection Units (Yekîneyên Parastina Jin, YPJ) had been operating throughout the regions of the Autonomous Administration of North and East Syria, the other founding partners were more geographically focused.

Geographically focused on the Euphrates Region were the YPG's partners in the Euphrates Volcano joint operations room, several mainstream Syrian rebel factions of the Free Syrian Army, who had helped defend the Kurdish town of Kobanî during the Siege of Kobanî. Liwa Thuwwar al-Raqqa was also in Euphrates Volcano, and it was expelled by the al-Nusra Front and ISIL from the city of Raqqa for being allied with the YPG since April 2014. The group participated in the capture of Tell Abyad from the Islamic State.

Geographically focused on the Jazira Region were the Assyrian Syriac Military Council (Mawtbo Fulhoyo Suryoyo, MFS) and the al-Sanadid Forces of the Arab Shammar tribe, both of whom had cooperated with the YPG in fighting ISIL since 2013.[121] The MFS is further politically aligned with the YPG via their shared secular ideology of democratic confederalism, which in the Assyrian community is known as the Dawronoye movement.[122]

Geographically focused on the Manbij Region was the Army of Revolutionaries (Jaysh al-Thuwar, JAT), itself an alliance of several groups of diverse ethnic and political backgrounds, who had in common that they had been rejected by the mainstream Syrian opposition for secular, anti-Islamist views and affiliations. However, most of the JAT component groups have always used the Free Syrian Army label and continue to use it.
Signatory groups

The following groups signed the founding document:[120]

    People's Protection Units (Yekîneyên Parastina Gel, YPG)
    Women's Protection Units (Yekîneyên Parastina Jin, YPJ)
    Al-Sanadid Forces
    Syriac Military Council (Mawtbo Fulhoyo Suryoyo, MFS)
    Liwa Thuwwar al-Raqqa
    Euphrates Volcano
    Army of Revolutionaries (Jaysh al-Thuwar, JAT)
        99th Infantry Brigade
    Brigade Groups of al-Jazira

On 10 December 2015, after a two-day conference, The Syrian Democratic Council was established as a political platform of the SDF. Human rights activist Haytham Manna was co-chairman at its founding.[123] The Assembly that established the Syrian Democratic Council was made up of 13 members from specific ethnic, economic and political backgrounds.

Syrian Arab Coalition

The Syrian Arab Coalition is claimed by the U.S. government as an alliance of programmatically exclusively ethnic Arab militias established during the Syrian Civil War. In this narrative, it consists of exclusively ethnic Arab component groups of the SDF alliance,[124][125] such as the al-Sanadid Forces, the Deir ez-Zor Military Council, Arab units within the Army of Revolutionaries, along with smaller factions.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syrian_Democratic_Forces#Signatory_groups

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Those Senators have said it, Trump is dropping the ball now

Really?  What answers to this pickle we find ourselves in do these senators have @TomSea ---  because I've got a couple of questions.

The Kurds have been fighting an unrelenting guerilla war with the Turks (our NATO ally) for forty years in an effort to establish an independent state within Turkey.   Do we fight against Turkey with the Kurds?  Do we help all Kurds resettle in Kurdistan, Iraq and bring an end to the killing?  Do we convene an emergency session of the UN to carve out a brand, spanking new nation state called "Kurdistan 2.0" and relocate all Kurds there?  And where would these esteemed senators locate this new member of independent nations?

Have they said anything, anything at all, pointing to just what it is they want the United States to do for "the Kurds"?
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Glad to help out!

Who is this "alliance" against @TomSea   And does it overwrite the NATO alliance?
"January 20th 2017 will be remembered as the day the people became the rulers of this nation again."  --  President Donald J. Trump


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