Author Topic: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds  (Read 6250 times)

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Offline TomSea

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Top Senate Republican warns 'precipitous' Syria pullout benefits Russia, Iran
The New Arab & agencies

The top Republican in Congress warned that an abrupt pullback of US troops from Turkey's border with Syria would only benefit Russia, Iran and President Bashar al-Assad's government in Damascus.

The top Republican in Congress warned Monday that an abrupt pullback of US troops from Turkey's border with Syria would only benefit Russia, Iran and President Bashar al-Assad's government in Damascus.

Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell became the most senior lawmaker in Donald Trump's party to oppose the president's announced decision to withdraw from certain positions in northern Syria, one that effectively abandons the Kurds, one of Washington's main allies in the war against Islamic State group militants.

Read more at: https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2019/10/8/top-republican-warns-precipitous-syria-pullout-benefits-russia-iran

And, I get it, there should be a limit as to what we do, understood. One thousand troops, that's not that big.  We also don't want these guys above to benefit. We don't want our so-called "allies" to be pushed into their corner, okay, it won't be Erdogan but it could be these others.

McConnell said the Senate has a super-majority of those who want to stay, beyond sanctions, I'm not so sure what they could do. Could they authorize troops to stay or go there? Maybe something like this.
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Offline txradioguy

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Kurds now organizing civilian defense.  Is there any help for them?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/erdogan-orders-turkish-offensive-against-northern-syria-as-kurds-mobilize-civilian-defense/ar-AAIuVqO?ocid=spartanntp

@Chosen Daughter

Not from us.  And I can only imagine the frustration the U.S. troops on the groupd are feeling watching helpless as this happens to people they've lived and fought side by side with.

Notice how no one ever asks the soldiers who've been in the trenches with the Kurds how they feel about having to pull back?  It's only ever the politicians in their $1,000 suits in airconditioned building who get the coverage.

Wonder why that is?
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Offline Sanguine

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@Chosen Daughter

Not from us.  And I can only imagine the frustration the U.S. troops on the groupd are feeling watching helpless as this happens to people they've lived and fought side by side with.

Notice how no one ever asks the soldiers who've been in the trenches with the Kurds how they feel about having to pull back?  It's only ever the politicians in their $1,000 suits in airconditioned building who get the coverage.

Wonder why that is?

Just curious - how many of our troops are we talking about?
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Offline libertybele

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@Chosen Daughter

Not from us.  And I can only imagine the frustration the U.S. troops on the groupd are feeling watching helpless as this happens to people they've lived and fought side by side with.

Notice how no one ever asks the soldiers who've been in the trenches with the Kurds how they feel about having to pull back?  It's only ever the politicians in their $1,000 suits in airconditioned building who get the coverage.

Wonder why that is?


I find it very troubling that Trump has decided to ignore his advisors and those with "boots on the ground" experience.  Obviously he's made this decision reliant on information that he's been given and surely he's not making this call based on solely his opinion as he certainly doesn't have a whole lot of experience in the ME.
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Offline Sanguine

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Just curious - how many of our troops are we talking about?

And, what was our mission in Syria?
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Offline skeeter

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Just curious - how many of our troops are we talking about?

Of the ~1000 currently in Syria I've heard the figure being pulled back from the region is from 100 to 150 personnel.

Offline txradioguy

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Just curious - how many of our troops are we talking about?

Our troops that were up there?  Roughly a battalion's worth...1000 or so.  Mainly Special Forces with conbat sustainment and support from regular army units.

Doesn't sond like much...bu for the last 2-3 years it's prevented Turkey from doing exactly what it's doing right now.
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Offline txradioguy

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And, what was our mission in Syria?

Supporting freedom fighters agaisnt ISIS and Syrian forces.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline txradioguy

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I find it very troubling that Trump has decided to ignore his advisors and those with "boots on the ground" experience.  Obviously he's made this decision reliant on information that he's been given and surely he's not making this call based on solely his opinion as he certainly doesn't have a whole lot of experience in the ME.

I agree.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline Sanguine

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Supporting freedom fighters agaisnt ISIS and Syrian forces.

I don't think that's accurate.
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Offline txradioguy

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I don't think that's accurate.

It is.

Quote
The American-led intervention in the Syrian Civil War refers to the United States-led support of Syrian opposition and the Federation of Northern Syria during the course of the Syrian Civil War and active military involvement led by the United States and its allies — the militaries of the United Kingdom, France, Jordan, Turkey, Canada, Australia and more — against the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) and al-Nusra Front since 2014. Since early 2017, the U.S. and other Coalition partners have also targeted the Syrian government and its allies via airstrikes and aircraft shoot-downs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-led_intervention_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War
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Offline Sanguine

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It is.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-led_intervention_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War

From that article:

Quote
During the Syrian Civil War, which began in 2011, the U.S. initially supplied the rebels of the Free Syrian Army with non-lethal aid—including food rations and pickup trucks—but quickly began providing training, money, and intelligence to selected Syrian rebel commanders. At least two U.S. programs attempted to assist the Syrian rebels. One was a 2014 Pentagon program that planned to train and equip 15,000 rebels to fight ISIL, which was canceled in 2015 after spending $500 million and producing only a few dozen fighters.[135] A simultaneous $1 billion covert program called Timber Sycamore ran by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) was more successful, but was decimated by Russian bombing and canceled in mid-2017 by the Trump administration.[135]
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Offline txradioguy

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From that article:

Obama's bungling foreign policy has us sending weapons and munitions to what they thought were rebel fighters...that turned out to be the Taliban.

Everything the Obama administration touched turned to shit over there and was one disaster after another.

Up until Rand Paul became Trump's BFF...the situation had gotten turned around and headed in the righ direction.  Remember when everyone was rah-rahing the military strikes Trump was odering over there?  I do.

Same people now who are cheering his retreat and abandonment of the Kurds.

Like with the previous adminstration...we're about to snatch defeat from the jaws of an albeit small victory in that region.  And people are happy about it.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline Chosen Daughter

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I find it very troubling that Trump has decided to ignore his advisors and those with "boots on the ground" experience.  Obviously he's made this decision reliant on information that he's been given and surely he's not making this call based on solely his opinion as he certainly doesn't have a whole lot of experience in the ME.

I wouldn't bet on it.  I think it was a calculated decision by the President.  Its shameful.  The entire world knows that President Trump called Syria sand and death.  He has been grooming this operation for some time.  Making friends with Erdogan.  Thinking of lifting sanctions on Iran.  Firing Bolton.

Yes, its his decision.  And he is saying its a campaign promise.  Well the promise wasn't to help Turkey wipe out our allies.  He negotiated it with Erdogan. 

Trump and John Bolton sparred over lifting Iran sanctions
The national security adviser departed abruptly after President Trump suggested he might lift some sanctions as an incentive for Tehran to get to the negotiating table.

https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/trump-john-bolton-argued-over-iran-sanctions-n1054481

And what a show he put on at the UN.  Friend of Christian persecutor.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 11:05:03 AM by Chosen Daughter »
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Offline Sanguine

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Obama's bungling foreign policy has us sending weapons and munitions to what they thought were rebel fighters...that turned out to be the Taliban.

Everything the Obama administration touched turned to shit over there and was one disaster after another.

Up until Rand Paul became Trump's BFF...the situation had gotten turned around and headed in the righ direction.  Remember when everyone was rah-rahing the military strikes Trump was odering over there?  I do.

Same people now who are cheering his retreat and abandonment of the Kurds.

Like with the previous adminstration...we're about to snatch defeat from the jaws of an albeit small victory in that region.  And people are happy about it.

I understand your point of view, and I disagree with it.  The best approximation of a mission over there was to fight ISIS and help the Syrian rebels.  Both have been done*.  Time to get out.

* I understand that ISIS is not 100% defeated, nor will it ever be.
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Offline Absalom

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And on and on and on.................
Coupla reflections on the Middle East.
There have been no virtuous societies throughout the ME since the dawn of militant Islam, some 14 centuries past; rather assorted tribes looking for advantage, like the Kurds.
During the Great War in 1915, the schizophrenic Ottomans decided to rid themselves of
their Armenian Christian minority by recruiting the Kurds who organized the caravans,
herded the Armenians, driving them into the Deserts of Anatolia, cutting off any escape routes and let 1.5 million men, women and children starve to death. REALITY!
So much for the poor Kurds.
The Turks had a chance to escape their dark Ottoman past w/the accession of their hero
at Gallipoli, Mustafa Kemal, as President post WW 1, but w/his passing in 1938 that
window closed and Turkey has reverted to its neurotic history.
Similarly, the Persians, now Iran had an opportunity to develop and prosper w/the
accession of Reza Shah Pahlavi after the War but that also disappeared as Jackass Carter
aided/abetted the overthrow of his son; ushering in the fanatical Mullahs who presently
rule that land.
There are first world as well as third world cultures/societies and then there is the
Middle East, a cauldron of fanatical ideology masquerading as a religion, repression
and violence.
We have no need of the latter, as it offers us nothing; staying as far away as possible. 

« Last Edit: October 09, 2019, 04:30:01 PM by Absalom »

Offline ExFreeper

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Before the civil war between the neocons and the isolationist starts, please understand what is really going on before jumping to an uninformed opinion and making a fool of themselves.   My question is where are the 10,000 ISIS prisoners and who is responsible for guarding them?

Quote
...he’s moving just 50 US service members out of northern Syria to get of the way of a just-started Turkish invasion.

Quote
It’s worth noting that the US had 2,000 troops in Syria back in December and then Trump had the Pentagon cut that force in half in March. That’s definitely scaling back US involvement, but it’s still a far cry from ending any US role in the Middle East — and, again, it’s not what’s happening this week.

https://www.vox.com/world/2019/10/9/20906227/trump-turkey-invades-syria-middle-east-tweet

Another source:

Quote

A senior administration official told reporters Monday that Sunday’s announcement did not constitute a full U.S. withdrawal from Syria and that only 50 to 100 U.S. special operations forces were moving to other locations in Syria.

The official explained that Trump’s decision to move the special operators out of the zone of a potential Turkish operation was done to protect troops and keep them out of the crossfire.

Those troops are moving to more secure areas over the next several days, the official said.

“The Department of Defense made clear to Turkey — as did the president — that we do not endorse a Turkish operation in Northern Syria," Jonathan Hoffman, the chief Pentagon spokesman said. “The U.S. armed forces will not support, or be involved in any such operation.”

https://www.militarytimes.com/flashpoints/2019/10/07/how-the-us-troop-withdrawal-from-northern-syria-could-create-an-isis-resurgence/

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Offline txradioguy

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I understand your point of view, and I disagree with it.  The best approximation of a mission over there was to fight ISIS and help the Syrian rebels.  Both have been done*.  Time to get out.

* I understand that ISIS is not 100% defeated, nor will it ever be.

Look...just so we're clear...I'm not a warmonger...not anywhere clsoe to it...the last people that want war is a soldier.

That being said...and like I've said before this goes beyond all of the endless war...world police crap taht's getting spewed out there.  This is about honor and a code and keeping our word.

We gave our word to the Kurds we'd have their back and they had ours fighting the good fight against terrorism.  And for us to pull back out of the blue isn't honorable and it makes us look like liars.

If we can't give someone our word and stand by it...what good are we as a nation?
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline txradioguy

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...he’s moving just 50 US service members out of northern Syria to get of the way of a just-started Turkish invasion.

@ExFreeper first off...the soldiers were told to pull back...THEN the invasion started.  Turkey hadn't made a move in several years in that area.  They only did it becasue Trump retreated.

Those 50 soldiers...are Green Berets.  50 Special Forces soldiers are the equivalent of 200 regular infantry soldiers in any other army on the planet.  They are a "force multiplier".  Turkey didn't make a move until they were gone because it would have gone very badly for them otherwise.

So those that try to minimize it as "only 50 soldiers" are saying that from a very uninformed point of view.

Our retreat paved the way for what Turkey is about to do to the Kurds.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Offline Sanguine

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Look...just so we're clear...I'm not a warmonger...not anywhere clsoe to it...the last people that want war is a soldier.

That being said...and like I've said before this goes beyond all of the endless war...world police crap taht's getting spewed out there.  This is about honor and a code and keeping our word.

We gave our word to the Kurds we'd have their back and they had ours fighting the good fight against terrorism.  And for us to pull back out of the blue isn't honorable and it makes us look like liars.

If we can't give someone our word and stand by it...what good are we as a nation?

And, as you know, I'm no peacenik.  If we gave our word to defend the Syrian Kurds from now on out, we shouldn't have.  It's not our fight.
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." – George Mason, Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 1788

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Offline txradioguy

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And, as you know, I'm no peacenik.  If we gave our word to defend the Syrian Kurds from now on out, we shouldn't have.  It's not our fight.

If not us then who?  If not now...when?
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Sanguine

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If not us then who?  If not now...when?

That argument might fly if we were more discriminatory about who and when we offer support.  We can't be everything to everyone, as hard as we try.

Again, it makes sense to form temporary alliances to accomplish specific purposes.  That does not shackle us to our provisional allies for the rest of time.
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." – George Mason, Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 1788

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