Author Topic: Defying Pentagon, Trump Backs Turkish Operation in Syria Targeting U.S.-backed Kurds  (Read 6251 times)

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Offline roamer_1

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Rousing success, except had we not topped Saddam Iran wouldn’t be in northern Iraq, we wouldn’t have had to eliminate ISIS there and 2000 year old Christian communities wouldn’t have been wiped out.

Np. Of we had not pulled out prematurely and allowed the government to take root, THEN Iran would not be there. and THEN the Christians would not be wiped out.

No matter how you jiggle, and no matter how you dance, there's a couple hundred thousand hot headed towelheads that are now under the ground... And they didn't come running for them damn mountains.

Offline aligncare

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Wow, all this handwringing, over like what?—at most 2-platoons pulling out of Syria?

If that small contingent of US troops is all it takes to save the Middle East from utter collapse, then Trump should definitely leave them in place. /s

Offline Chosen Daughter

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Our deal under Obama was to ally with the PKK, who basically are the nemesis of Turkey.

Anyway, if Chosen Daughter's way had happened, ISIS never would have been dethroned in the first place. So first things first.

I don't like this at all. Chosen Daughter and Catfish1957 just peddle hate around here though. That's disgusting too.

What a stupid comment.  This isn't about me.  Its about bad foreign policy and opening the door for many people to be killed.  For ISIS to revamp and become active again.  If you really liked Trump you would tell him this is wrong.  It is so wrong.  Nikki Haley has come out against it.  Lindsey Graham.  The Pentagon.  Pat Robertson too.  Says he is going to loose the heaven mandate.  Whatever that means.  I don't think he ever had one, but oh well.

Not everything is about elections but Conservatives don't like this decision.  It is wrong.  Absolutely wrong.  Only the presidents lap dogs are going to be loyal on this decision.
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Offline Chosen Daughter

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WTF are you talking about.  Obama abandoned the Kurds.  IF anything he was more friendly with Erdogan.

Hey guess what Tom...ISIS isn't "dethroned" now.  And if your hero gets his way...there's gonna be 10K pissed off ISIS fighters back on the battlefield ready to pick up where they left off with the whole Caliphate thing.

Lindsey Graham flat out said the president was lying about ISIS.
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Offline Chosen Daughter

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I don't even know where you came up with that totally insane question.

Considering the PKK is in the Middle East and Antifa is a completely home grown hard left organization what you're asking is well...

Maybe hanging out at Q. 
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Offline Chosen Daughter

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It is true that there was a large jihadi call to the region and we got rid of a lot of people that may have had designs of causing problems here. Still, we have someone like Muqtada al-Sadr in charge of Iraq, now. Along with fighting them there, instead of here, there was the whole idea of nation building and western style democracy, spreading across the region. That was folly.

Sure was because Sharia and Democracy cannot coexist.  I knew it was over when they were writing Islam into the Constitution.  And at that time is when the real trouble began for the Kurds also.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Maybe hanging out at Q.

Nope.  Simply google "Antifa and PKK".  You'll pull up a string of articles @Chosen Daughter   They're from sites I'm not familiar with, and that triggered my question to @txradioguy

He thinks the reports are bogus and that's good enough for me.
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Offline Victoria33

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Eyewitness to Treatment of Kurds by Turks

In the 1970s, Geophysicist Bob was sent to Turkey by Gulf Oil to do systemic readings off the coast of Turkey in the Mediterranean Sea continuing on land where the Kurds lived and still do.

Bob employed Kurds in this work.  It was okay with Turkey for him to employ Kurds because Turkish officials and Turks in general treated the Kurds as subhuman.   The Kurds also had their own religion which the Turks also hated.  Bob said the Kurd men were strong and dedicated to the work they did for him/Gulf.

The Turks in the area were cruel to the Kurds.  He said many times he saw Turk men hit Kurd children of all ages, over the head with batons until the children were bleeding out their ears and noses.  That meant they had brain concussions and most likely brain injury.  He could do nothing about it and neither could the Kurds in that time period.

Now, without our help to the Kurds, this present generation of Kurds are going to be killed by these cruel Turks of this generation.  Evidently, to Trump, the Kurds are expendable if he saves some government money to pay to his personal Florida location for the G7 to meet next year.  Why connect this Kurd extinction to money for his personal gain?  I did it because he has no empathy for anyone except himself.  He understands money for him but not for the lives of humans and God made Kurds or they would not be there.   He is responsible for any deaths of Kurds that happen due to our leaving there.

Erdogan must have praised Trump during this October 7, 2019, phone call:  "Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and US counterpart Donald Trump agreed during a phone call to meet in Washington next month to discuss creating a “safe zone” in northern Syria, the Turkish presidency said Sunday."  That call happened and now we are leaving the Kurds to Erdogan to do as he wishes.

The President of Turkey, Erdogan, must have heaped praise on Trump the last time they saw each other and talked at the UN, and that did it - "The Kurds be damned, Erdogan said nice things about me."

Consider the rest in quotes:

Turkey’s president threatens to launch solo army operation into northeast Syria despite US presence  October 6, 2019

Recep Tayyip Erdogan issued his strongest warning yet that action to secure border may go ahead at any moment

Turkey reinforced army units at the Syrian border hours after President Recep Tayyip Erdogan signalled an imminent cross-border operation against US-backed Kurdish militants in Syria.

Turkey sent additional armoured vehicles and troops to the border town of Akcakale late Saturday, across from Tal Abyad in Syria, according to state TV television TRT.

Erdogan said earlier in the day that Turkey was ready to start a military operation in northern Syria to claim areas from the Kurdish militant group YPG and may act “as soon as today or tomorrow”.

“We have made our preparations, completed our operation plans,” Erdogan said at an AK Party meeting in Kizilcahamam in Ankara Province.

“We have given the necessary orders.” The operation in the east of the Euphrates river in northern Syria would be carried out by land and air, he said.

Erdogan has vowed to create a buffer zone inside Syria by pushing back Kurdish militants and settling Syrian refugees in the country’s north.

Turkey suspects that the US is backing Kurdish aspirations for self-rule in Syria and is prepared to use military force to prevent what it perceives as an attempt to redraw the region’s map.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Lindsey Graham flat out said the president was lying about ISIS.

Have you a link to this "flat out" quote @Chosen Daughter 
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Offline Chosen Daughter

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Offline libertybele

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WTF are you talking about.  Obama abandoned the Kurds.  IF anything he was more friendly with Erdogan.

Hey guess what Tom...ISIS isn't "dethroned" now.  And if your hero gets his way...there's gonna be 10K pissed off ISIS fighters back on the battlefield ready to pick up where they left off with the whole Caliphate thing.

Exactly and this is concerning. Trump ignoring the Pentagon and others who are far more experienced and informed about the situation is absolutely troubling. In addition, our southern border is still wide open and we literally have people from all over the world coming in, which very easily could include ISIS. Does anyone truly know if they are already here waiting in the shadows?  This could very easily see this as a golden opportunity and reason to strike.  Instead of fighting them in the ME, we very well could be fighting them on our own turf.
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Offline Chosen Daughter

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Trump’s Former ISIS Envoy Slams Syria Pullout: ‘Donald Trump Is Not Commander-In-Chief’

Zachary Evans
,National Review•October 7, 2019

Brett McGurk, former presidential envoy to the Global Coalition to Defeat ISIS, slammed President Trump on Monday after the U.S. announced it was withdrawing troops from the Syrian-Turkish border region.

The pullback comes in advance of a planned Turkish invasion of the area. Turkey asserts it wants to create a “safe zone” inside Syria to resettle 3.6 million refugees from the Syrian civil war who are currently residing in Turkey, while Kurdish forces in northern Syria warn that Turkey wants to weaken their hold on the region by flooding the region with Sunni Arab Muslims.

“Donald Trump is not a Commander-in-Chief,” McGurk wrote on Twitter. “He sends military personnel into harm’s way with no backing. He blusters and then leaves our allies exposed when adversaries call his bluff or he confronts a hard phone call.”

McGurk had resigned from his post in December 2018 after Trump announced a withdrawal of U.S. troops from other parts of Syria. The withdrawal
came after Trump declared ISIS defeated.

https://news.yahoo.com/trump-former-isis-envoy-slams-141157989.html
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Just a reminder:  The Kurds have been fighting a war with Turkey for 41 years.  They're trying to annex Turkish territory for a Kurdistan of some sort or the other. Another clarification:  Not one time the Kurds have fought along side America  has it been to help America.  They have helped themselves when our interests dovetailed.  For their efforts in these military excursions they have received a generosity of US treasure:  Money, weapons and training. 

Another reminder:  Turkey is a NATO member ... one who is hosting, as I type, 50 US nuclear weapons.  Like it or not, Turkey is our ally, not the Kurds.

For the do-gooders out there, if the US is to assist the Kurds with carving out a Kurdistan ... we'd need to directly fight at least one country.  I wish some neocon would choose one and explain how we keep Russia out of it.  Here are the potential battlefields--Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey.  Choose one.

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Offline txradioguy

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I totally agree, what Graham suggested sounds a bit impotent. That was my immediate reaction.

Our nukes are also over at Incilirk airbase in Turkey.

No they are not. That is a flat out blatant falsehood. Not sure where exactly you come up with some of this bullshit...but that’s one of the biggest whoppers you’ve told in quite awhile.

It’s like you just can’t help yourself.

You need to stop.
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Offline txradioguy

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Well, you know... as time goes on... things change.   I repeat....

WTH?

@XenaLee

WTH is right. The only missiles the US has operated since we agreed to remove the offensive missiles during the Cuban Missile Crisis are the Patriot batteries at Gaziantep. And even then those were German missile batteries that were crewed by American soldiers. 

We don’t have nukes in Turkey.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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We don’t have nukes in Turkey. 

Quote
Weapons provided for nuclear sharing (2019)
 Belgium Kleine Brogel 20 B61 
 Germany Büchel 20 B61 
 Italy Aviano 40 B61 
 Italy Ghedi 40 B61 
 Netherlands Volkel 20 B61 
Turkey Incirlik 50 B61 

5 nations;  6 bases

Of the three nuclear powers in NATO (France, the United Kingdom and the United States), only the United States is known to have provided weapons for nuclear sharing.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_sharing

Quote
Time to Pull US Nuclear Weapons Out of Turkey
Defense One, May 17, 2019

Storing nuclear weapons close to trouble is a bad idea, and giving Ankara a shared finger on the nuclear trigger is rapidly losing its charm.

Amid the recent self-congratulatory celebrations of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization’s 70th anniversary, there was no mention one of its strangest policies: the nuclear sharing program that keeps American nuclear bombs in five NATO countries (Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, Italy and Turkey) and trains host air forces to use them.

Thus at Incirlik Air Base in Turkey, about 100 miles from the Syrian border, the United States stores some 20 to 80 B61 nuclear weapons for delivery by Turkish or American aircraft. There is not much comfort in knowing that these weapons are under direct American control in heavily guarded bunkers and are designed to be unusable without the proper codes. It is time to bring them home.

More:  https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2019/05/get-us-nuclear-weapons-out-turkey/157101/ 

@txradioguy   @XenaLee
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Offline Chosen Daughter

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« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 01:10:46 AM by Chosen Daughter »
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Offline Chosen Daughter

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Kurdish women fighters.  They sure don't look like terrorists to me.  I think that Erdogan is the terrorist.

https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=kurdish+women+fighters+against+isis&FORM=HDRSC2

« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 01:33:26 AM by Chosen Daughter »
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Offline Chosen Daughter

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October 7, 2019
U.S. Senator Ben Sasse, a member of the Senate Intelligence Committee, issued the following statement regarding the Administration’s announced retreat from the Syria-Turkey border.

“If the President sticks with this retreat, he needs to know that this bad decision will likely result in the slaughter of allies who fought with us, including women and children. I hope the President will listen to his generals and reconsider. And before Turkey butchers innocent Kurds, Erdogan should carefully consider his privileged status as a NATO member. The American people don’t partner with genocidal regimes.”

https://www.sasse.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/2019/10/sasse-statement-on-u-s-retreat-from-syria

Ted Cruz: ‘DISGRACEFUL’ to Let Turkish Military Slaughter America’s Kurdish Allies
By John McCormack
 
October 7, 2019 10:14 PM

“It would also be DISGRACEFUL if we sat idly by while Turkey slaughters the Kurds, as public reports suggest that Turkish leader Erdogan explicitly told President Trump he intends to do. Kurds risked their lives—for many years—to fight alongside us,” Texas Republican senator Ted Cruz wrote on Twitter. “Our enemies and rivals (Iran, Russia, etc.) don’t abandon their allies; if we want allies to stand with America in the future, we shouldn’t either. Honorable nations stand by their friends.”

Trump: “Kurds are great people, great fighters, I like them a lot. We are trying to help them a lot. Don’t forget that’s their territory.They fought with us, they died with us, we lost tens of thousands of Kurds fighting ISIS. They’re great people and we have not forgotten.”

816
8:38 PM - Sep 26, 2018 (See video at link)

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/trump-syria-withdrawal-congressional-republicans-condemn-decision/

I think Trump forgot since September 2018
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 02:07:00 AM by Chosen Daughter »
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Offline TomSea

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Just a reminder:  The Kurds have been fighting a war with Turkey for 41 years.  They're trying to annex Turkish territory for a Kurdistan of some sort or the other. Another clarification:  Not one time the Kurds have fought along side America  has it been to help America.  They have helped themselves when our interests dovetailed.  For their efforts in these military excursions they have received a generosity of US treasure:  Money, weapons and training. 

Another reminder:  Turkey is a NATO member ... one who is hosting, as I type, 50 US nuclear weapons.  Like it or not, Turkey is our ally, not the Kurds.

For the do-gooders out there, if the US is to assist the Kurds with carving out a Kurdistan ... we'd need to directly fight at least one country.  I wish some neocon would choose one and explain how we keep Russia out of it.  Here are the potential battlefields--Iran, Iraq, Syria, Turkey.  Choose one.



Quote
Iraqi Kurdistan or Southern Kurdistan[1] (Kurdish: باشووری کوردستان‎, romanized: Başûrê Kurdistanê) is the Kurdish-populated region incorporated into Iraq and considered by Kurds as one of four parts of Greater Kurdistan.[2] Much of the geographical and cultural region of Iraqi Kurdistan is governed by the Kurdistan Region (KRI) (Kurdish: هه‌رێمی کوردستان‎, romanized: Herêmî Kurdistan) which is an autonomous region recognized by the Iraqi constitution.[3]



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Kurdistan

Again, you state a falsehood, the Kurds are NOT in a battle with Iraq. They have their own autonomous region.

And your talk about carving out a part of Turkey, we are talking about Syria here, we are NOT talking about freaking Turkey, we are not aiding Kurdish rebellion in Turkey.

Quote
Not one time the Kurds have fought along side America  has it been to help America.  They have helped themselves when our interests dovetailed.  For their efforts in these military excursions they have received a generosity of US treasure:  Money, weapons and training. 

And don't come out with "The Kurds have never helped us unless their interests dovetail with ours", the Kurds in no way, had to help us retake the ISIS capital of Syria and I assume you know what city that was.  But they did.



Trump is seeming to contemplate the same idiotic decision that Obama made, hopefully he's walking it back.

No, for all of your bluster, the Kurds helped us, I"m sure they helped us plenty in Iraq,  fight insurgents as well.  That's probably why they are currently at peace with the ruling regime.

Prove the Kurds are fighting with the Iraqi government. If that is so, it shouldn't be hard to find proof.

Lastly, no Kurds, no defeat of ISIS in Syria, you seem to leave that part out. Trump claims he beat ISIS, to an extent, that's so and would not have without the Kurds.




« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 04:57:39 AM by TomSea »
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Offline TomSea

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@Right_in_Virginia

There's a total disconnect with what you are saying and what Trump has said himself about the Kurds per all this, "Neo-Con" and so on:

Quote
...“We do get along great with the Kurds, we’re trying to help them a lot,” Trump answered:

    Don’t forget, that’s their territory. We have to help them. I want to help them. They fought with us, They fought with us, they died. We lost tens of thousands of Kurds [who] died fighting ISIS. They died for us and with us. And for themselves, they died for themselves. But they’re great people, and we have not forget [sic].

https://newrepublic.com/article/155307/trump-withdraws-syria-america-screwing-kurds-yet

It's true to everyone on board,  some factions of the Kurds are fighting against Turkey and for independence there.

Actually, per demographic shifts in population, some studies say, the Kurds can eventually and not far into the future, the Turks in Turkey.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 05:20:33 AM by TomSea »
"Now way out here they got a name for wind and rain and fire, the rain is Tess, the fire's Joe and the wind they call Mariah."

Offline jpsb

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Why the hell is Turkey in NATO?  This is actually a serious question @jpsb

Cold War, we needed bases in Turkey so we could threaten Russia on Russia's southern flank.

Online XenaLee

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Cold War, we needed bases in Turkey so we could threaten Russia on Russia's southern flank.

I realize that my memory is a bit fuzzy, but.... I seem to recall that Turkey was one of the nations that refused to allow the US to 'fly over' during the Iraqi invasion by Bush.   I'm no expert, but a nation that refuses such access is no damned ""ally"".   Allowing Turkey access to US nukes is about THE stupidest thing I've heard yet.  What Einstein made that call?
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Offline thackney

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I believe it was @thackney who once posted that the SOBs even had to import sand.

That was for sand blasting in Yemen.  Needed sand with sharp edges.  The local stuff was windblown to nearly round particles.
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