Author Topic: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria  (Read 24811 times)

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Offline don-o

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I have requested that the writer provide backup. My conjecture he posing a possible course of action that advocated of unceasing involvement might call for. I will post any response I get.
John Zmirak
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Replying to
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I was inferring from their calls to keep US forces there to resist a Turkish attack. Did they explicitly support a no-fly zone grounding Turkish planes? Not sure--but we would ABSOLUTELY have had to impose one if we backed their other policies. Or let Turks bomb Americans. @TomSea
« Last Edit: October 16, 2019, 04:39:57 pm by don-o »

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #601 on: October 16, 2019, 04:40:34 pm »
@TomSea

You might want to ask the mod to move this one to the obits category.
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Offline Hoodat

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Syrian Christians are already saved.
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Offline TomSea

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 It doesn't look like either of them asked for a no-fly zone and my gosh, a no-fly zone to protect American troops? Anyway, it appears no Senator per se asked for this. Nor Representative.

https://www.usnews.com/news/world/articles/2019-10-10/us-official-for-sdfs-political-arm-repeats-call-for-no-fly-zone-in-syria

It's easy to think that though, a no-fly zone to protect the civilians who would indeed, consist of some Christians in seeing that a number exist in that part of the country.

See, that is interesting because I believe when these animosities started, some said part of the agreement or that we demanded a "no-fly zone", that's the spirit of this tweet. That was in the news though, easily could have been faulty information.:

Quote
The Tennessee Holler
@TheTNHoller
“The US made a deal with Turkey to have a no-fly zone... with that, the Kurds had to take down their defenses. The Americans asked them to do that. So now, they’re defenseless.”

A NASHVILLE Kurd explains why Trump’s betrayal is incredibly messed up.


https://mobile.twitter.com/TheTNHoller/status/1183375799065427968

Quote
Dr Widad Akreyi
🕊
@DrWidad_A
Dear @EmmanuelMacron
 

In 1991, when President Bush abandoned Kurds in North Iraq, France lobbied & worked hard for the establishment of a no-fly zone that helped save millions of civilians. Please intervene & prevent new massacres akin to those in Afrin

#SaveRojava #DrWidad


https://mobile.twitter.com/DrWidad_A/status/1181271004167000064

Quote
SyriacMilitaryMFS
@SyriacMFS
Joint call by Syriac Christian organisations demanding No-Fly Zone over North East Syria.

“Stop the Ottoman Turkish invading North East Syria”
“Don’t let Christianity be driven out of North East Syria”



See more at:

https://mobile.twitter.com/SyriacMFS/status/1182075650364121088

So, with this, it becomes confusing,  the Assyrian Christians themselves called for a no-fly zone.

So, his stance isn't thought out, what if the Syrian Christians had asked for this?? Then, if you deny them, you are exposing them to danger!

Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #604 on: October 16, 2019, 05:07:21 pm »
You might want to ask the mod to move this one to the obits category.

No..I am gonna shut it down if the personal attacks don't stop..
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Offline TomSea

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #605 on: October 16, 2019, 05:37:53 pm »
@mystery-ak     :                   This was indeed my fault, a former Florida Representative Lou Frey passed away and I meant to post it in obits. This is all my fault, no blame to @sneakypete I just posted this over there. .

But back to the subject, they are discussing this on Cspan now in the House, it seems like Representative Thomas Reed- Republican (NY) said if this resolution is passed, it "can" make military action required... so, I'm not saying he's right or wrong, noteworthy contribution to the discussion. Maybe the Republicans are indeed, supporting Trump on this.

It's a mess.

Representative Shimkus of Illinois, Republican came out saying he'd vote "Yes" on the resolution.

Shimkus served in the military and on some tours... so I'm not too familiar with him but I agree with him.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2019, 05:50:06 pm by TomSea »

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #606 on: October 16, 2019, 05:39:51 pm »
No..I am gonna shut it down if the personal attacks don't stop..

@mystery-ak

Maybe I am a bit slower today than normal,but what does suggesting someone ask a death notice to be moved to the obit section have to do with a personal attack?

I just figured he was busy and distracted,and didn't pay attention to the thread title when he posted. I've done that myself.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #607 on: October 16, 2019, 05:41:47 pm »
@mystery-ak

Maybe I am a bit slower today than normal,but what does suggesting someone ask a death notice to be moved to the obit section have to do with a personal attack?

I just figured he was busy and distracted,and didn't pay attention to the thread title when he posted. I've done that myself.

That wasn't what she was talking about.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #608 on: October 16, 2019, 05:45:17 pm »
That wasn't what she was talking about.

@Cyber Liberty

Ok,I now understand less than I did before.

I'll get over it,though. No big deal.
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Offline mystery-ak

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #609 on: October 16, 2019, 05:53:56 pm »
No..I am gonna shut it down if the personal attacks don't stop..

I am talking about the personal insults on this thread..
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Offline mystery-ak

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Russia releases video of troops touring abandoned US base in Syria
« Reply #610 on: October 16, 2019, 06:16:29 pm »
Russia releases video of troops touring abandoned US base in Syria
by Tim Pearce
 | October 16, 2019 01:53 PM



Russian police have released video showing Russian forces entering an abandoned U.S. military base in northern Syria after U.S. forces left the area.

The video shows evidence of a hasty exit by U.S. troops as Russian soldiers walk through the base and poke through food and other supplies apparently left over by the Americans. The video shows a kitchen and dining area stocked with soft drinks and food, some left out on tables half-eaten.

The video also shows personal items soldiers left behind such as books, a Game Boy, and equipment for several types of sports. U.S. troops also left behind several wheel loaders and other heavy equipment.


Error 404 (Not Found)!!1

more
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/russia-releases-video-of-troops-touring-abandoned-us-base-in-syria
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Offline aligncare

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #611 on: October 16, 2019, 06:17:10 pm »
Trump’s critics, both democrats and republicans, were quick to condemn Trump when he redeployed 50 troops to the rear as Turkey was readying a major military offensive on the border with Syria. Outrage! democrats screamed. We are abandoning an ally!

Did democrats just urge the US into going to war with a NATO ally and risk the lives of American troops in a regional conflict that could potentially escalate and trigger a wider war? Sounds that way to me.

All of a sudden everybody’s Dick Cheney. War! War! War!

Democrats, the same people who condemned the Iraq war now condemning Trump for avoiding a war in the Middle East!

I wish they could keep their story straight.
« Last Edit: October 17, 2019, 01:34:12 am by aligncare »

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #612 on: October 16, 2019, 06:35:58 pm »
Quote
Did democrats just urge the US into war with a NATO ally and risk the lives of American troops in a regional conflict that could potentially escalate and trigger a wider war? Sounds that way to me.

Dems didn't dio that...Trump did.

As I asked above...

Syria is now gearing up their military to stop any further incursion into their country by Turkey...Russia and Iran are backing Syria. If Turkey invokes Article 5 should we come to their defense if Syria attacks them?  I mean we have an agreement of collective defense with Turkey and no such agreement with the Kurds.
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Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #613 on: October 16, 2019, 06:49:16 pm »
Dems didn't dio that...Trump did.

As I asked above...

Syria is now gearing up their military to stop any further incursion into their country by Turkey...Russia and Iran are backing Syria. If Turkey invokes Article 5 should we come to their defense if Syria attacks them?  I mean we have an agreement of collective defense with Turkey and no such agreement with the Kurds.

Just to make it interesting, and having never read said article, are you referring to Syria attacking Turkey w/in Syria's borders?
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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #614 on: October 16, 2019, 07:04:57 pm »
Just to make it interesting, and having never read said article, are you referring to Syria attacking Turkey w/in Syria's borders?

Yes.  And Turkey then invoking Article 5 of the NATO Charter.  Everyone defending what Trump did keeps saying talking about how Turkey is a NATO partner nation...we have no agreements with the Kurds.

Well what do we do when Syria...backed by at least the Russians...starts mixing it up with the Turks and suddenly Turkey wants the other NATO nations (including and specifically the U.S.) to come to it's aid?
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Offline TomSea

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #615 on: October 16, 2019, 07:33:02 pm »
Congress, the House passed the resolution against the withdrawal getting the 2/3rds majority, now, I gather the Senate will deal with this. That will be interesting.

This below btw, is being discussed in the Netherlands legislature. This is NOT DC.
 
Quote
@JoelVoordewind
 and
@Martijncda
.@Martijncda
says there is huge threat of ISIS fighters that will escape the prisons in northern Syria. "Freeing of the whole ISIS army is a big threat to everyone".
He says govt should evoke Article 4 of NATO’s founding treaty.

https://twitter.com/vvanwilgenburg/status/1184547850191024129

At the present, I am more concerned with possibly evoking Article 4 of Nato as stated above.

Per article 5, already apparently, the PKK reportedly has attacked Turkey a number of times in Turkey, so, I'd almost ask why now???

In fact, there was one story I picked up from Ragip Soylu I believe, that during this current conflict,  a "mainly Kurd" town on the Turk side had been shelled. So, that would be an attack on Turkish soil.

Quote
Under Article 4, any member state can convene a meeting of NATO members to "consult" when it feels its independence or security are threatened. In practice, it has rarely been used and sends a strong political symbol to the greater world that NATO is concerned about a particular situation.

https://www.rferl.org/a/explainer-nato-articles-4-and-5/24626653.html

« Last Edit: October 16, 2019, 07:34:45 pm by TomSea »

Offline TomSea

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #616 on: October 16, 2019, 07:37:37 pm »
Moderator note: I've seen some things that I thought were pretty mild to get reported. So, herein, everyone behave themselves, this is not aimed at anyone in particular,  I caught flak last night.

So, what does TOS say? No violence, no racism, no profanity, this is a general framework.

I'm sorry if I did not answer any immediate concerns, everyone, we like each of you, I haven't seen anything hair-raising but maybe rude and crude.

So, for the forum, be nice!

Offline TomSea

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #617 on: October 16, 2019, 07:43:12 pm »
I've heard, TN may have more Kurds than anywhere in the US. Senator Marsha Blackburn TN is being somewhat vocal about all of this.  So, maybe some of our biggest cities have more but TN has a lot.

Quote
Sen. Marsha Blackburn
@MarshaBlackburn
Erdogan’s attack on our Kurdish partners has served to liberate ISIS prisoners, bolster the Assad regime, and strengthen Russia.

His invitation to the White House should be revoked.


https://twitter.com/MarshaBlackburn/status/1184483884546830337

Sounds like Erdogan will or maybe better said, "might" meet with Pence and Pompeo, none the less, Marsha is a very strong Republican.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2019, 07:53:39 pm by TomSea »

Offline TomSea

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #618 on: October 16, 2019, 08:06:49 pm »
Quote
Joyce Karam
@Joyce_Karam
UPDATE: US - #Turkey - #Syria

• 354 House members vote against Trump & Turkey plans
• Schumer: Senate will pass
• Cheney introduces Sanctions Bill goes after arms sales to
🇹🇷

• Pence & Pompeo
✈️
 to TK
• Trump claims Kurdish PKK is > threat than ISIS


https://twitter.com/Joyce_Karam/status/1184560725919969280

Lots of Republicans supporting this,  yes, Trump talked about the threat between PKK and ISIS, I'm not sure of his exact words but it is something like what Joy writes above.

Also, at this press conference, I understand that while Trump lambasted the threat of the PKK,  was very complimentary of the SDF General Mazloum who is from the PKK per my understanding. Come on, this is just confusing.  Check the presser oneself for details.
« Last Edit: October 16, 2019, 08:19:05 pm by TomSea »

Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #619 on: October 16, 2019, 08:17:28 pm »
Yes.  And Turkey then invoking Article 5 of the NATO Charter.  Everyone defending what Trump did keeps saying talking about how Turkey is a NATO partner nation...we have no agreements with the Kurds.

Well what do we do when Syria...backed by at least the Russians...starts mixing it up with the Turks and suddenly Turkey wants the other NATO nations (including and specifically the U.S.) to come to it's aid?

Well, IANALTG, but I see no moral, at least, requirement to come to the "defense" of an aggressor "ally" on foreign soil. 

I suppose there are some grey areas, like if the Syrians used chemical attacks, but in general I'm of the opinion that if you don't want to get your rear kicked, don't start the fight in the first place.
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #620 on: October 16, 2019, 09:48:26 pm »
Well, IANALTG, but I see no moral, at least, requirement to come to the "defense" of an aggressor "ally" on foreign soil. 

I suppose there are some grey areas, like if the Syrians used chemical attacks, but in general I'm of the opinion that if you don't want to get your rear kicked, don't start the fight in the first place.

I get that and I agree.  But Article 5 states that an attack agaisnt one is an attack agaisnt all.  It really puts us in a corner if they use it again like they did in 2014.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #621 on: October 16, 2019, 10:09:12 pm »
I get that and I agree.  But Article 5 states that an attack agaisnt one is an attack agaisnt all.  It really puts us in a corner if they use it again like they did in 2014.

The Sick Man of NATO.  If Turkey wants an Article 5 to protect their troops in Syria, I consider that a problem with NATO's structure.  I can foresee the "Alliance" collapsing completely.  Members will start looking for ways to exit unilaterally. 
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Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #622 on: October 16, 2019, 10:13:39 pm »
I get that and I agree.  But Article 5 states that an attack agaisnt one is an attack agaisnt all.  It really puts us in a corner if they use it again like they did in 2014.

Might not be such a bad thing.

Trump's not exactly a man of his word.  If he decides he doesn't like a deal, he just backs out of it.  So he might well refuse to come to Turkey's "defense", which would cause a lot of media heads to explode (not in a good way, unfortunately), but could lead to a "clarification" of (the understanding of) that rule to only pertain to attacks of aggression.

Not the way I'd like to see it cleared up, but at this point it's not like our word to our "allies" could mean much less than it does.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #623 on: October 16, 2019, 10:19:10 pm »
Might not be such a bad thing.

Trump's not exactly a man of his word.  If he decides he doesn't like a deal, he just backs out of it.  So he might well refuse to come to Turkey's "defense", which would cause a lot of media heads to explode (not in a good way, unfortunately), but could lead to a "clarification" of (the understanding of) that rule to only pertain to attacks of aggression.

Not the way I'd like to see it cleared up, but at this point it's not like our word to our "allies" could mean much less than it does.

I think, in this respect, he is a man of his word.  He's strictly "America first", and if we are bound by stupid treaties or accords I think he sees it in our best interests to find ways to not be bound. 

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #624 on: October 16, 2019, 10:35:18 pm »
Might not be such a bad thing.

Trump's not exactly a man of his word.  If he decides he doesn't like a deal, he just backs out of it.  So he might well refuse to come to Turkey's "defense", which would cause a lot of media heads to explode (not in a good way, unfortunately), but could lead to a "clarification" of (the understanding of) that rule to only pertain to attacks of aggression.

Not the way I'd like to see it cleared up, but at this point it's not like our word to our "allies" could mean much less than it does.

That's true...but then the second and third order effects of that are causing doubt in the other partner nations if we'd fulfill our obligations to them if they are attacked.  There's some new partner nations and recent full members that used to be WARSAW Pact and that's pissed off Putin to no end.  It's part of his motivation to invade the Crimea and Northern Ukraine.

And of course whether or not Trump thinks they'd be worthy or not of our help on any given day depends on his mood.
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