Author Topic: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria  (Read 24642 times)

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Offline TomSea

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #575 on: October 16, 2019, 01:07:31 am »
Trump is not bringing these soldiers home, he's just moving them around but generally in that area

Offline bigheadfred

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #576 on: October 16, 2019, 01:08:48 am »
Not many in Syria, hardly any at all,

Let's see, Trump announced this same kind of deal back last December, Jihadists liked it, killed 4 Americans in a restaurant by suicide bombing, that really is more on Trump though I don't really blame him, just stating what the news was  The Kurds and so forth made the ground sacrifices, we've done mainly airstrikes.

This is not Iraq or Afghanistan.

I don't think a dozen soldiers have died. Yes, it is a great tragedy when this happens.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with you.

All I am tryng to say is that our military involvement anywhere over there shouldn't cost this country more than it has.

Military and political entanglements are one thing. I am not for abandoning Christians. The moslems can ESAD.

There are enough people in this country willing to lend aid. I will. IF that aid is what is intended and it goes to the people who it is sent for.

These people will kill maim and slaughter each other whether we are involved or not.

She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline bigheadfred

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #577 on: October 16, 2019, 01:15:17 am »
Trump is not bringing these soldiers home, he's just moving them around but generally in that area

Maybe we should check where our Navy is at? What is the reach and capability of their weaponry positioned in and of the waters surrounding these conflicted areas?

Where is our Airforce?

Boots on the ground? Pull them out.
She asked me name my foe then. I said the need within some men to fight and kill their brothers without thought of Love or God. Ken Hensley

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #578 on: October 16, 2019, 02:05:39 am »

Quote
Okay, such an expert on these people, what's the name of the group of Christians over there that numbered say over 1,500,000 in Iraq pre-2003 to under 500,000 now??


@TomSea

Dummies?

Quote
and no, I don't think that Christians who have been there since New Testament times should be abandoned because USA goes in there.

 Please feel free to go there any time you want to rescue them.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #579 on: October 16, 2019, 02:12:17 am »
Our total of soldiers on the border was 50, hardly any have been killed over there, we use heavy weaponry and air strikes.

Here's that article, right after Trump's announcement last December, I would not blame him but they probably would not have done that.

This isn't Iraq where thousands of American soldiers have died.

Trump is acting more like Obama:

Quote
4 Americans among those killed by explosion in Manbij, Syria
ISIS claimed responsibility for the attack, which came just weeks after President Trump said "we have beaten them and we have beaten them badly."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/u-s-service-members-wounded-explosion-manbij-syria-n959231

Oh  yes, and if the guys we backed talk to the Russians, the Russians might be able to get a lot of intel. We will see.

I"m giving Trump some benefit of the doubt here until we learn more.

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #580 on: October 16, 2019, 09:13:54 am »

www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5dyWr7NAhY

Russian mercenaries give video tour of abandoned US base in Northern Syria, laughing at the hasty US retreat, showing unfinished meals on dining tables and heavy military equipment left behind. A Russian propaganda coup.


Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #581 on: October 16, 2019, 09:38:13 am »
@sneakypete
THAT'S RIGHT. We should not have been there in the first place. But we ARE there. And being there, we have made commitments. To just roll it up and walk off without an exit strategy, leaving our erstwhile allies to a bloodbath is simply unconscionable.

I don't care that Tumpy wants out. That's fine. HOW he gets out is the problem. This action is morally and strategically impaired, and that I think is why the Military folks don't like it.

I can see that, plain as day.
Sometimes, there is no graceful way to disengage from a political tarbaby. The only defense is to not have touched it in the first place. I can see the use of SF to advise and train as a middle ground to either noninvolvement vs deploying troops in larger numbers, the latter as distasteful as the first, but despite all reports of Assad's actions in Syria, we had no business messing in an internal conflict, especially against a duly elected government. Assad hasn't kept his place by being a nice guy, but then the groups he has to keep in line aren't' exactly playing pattycake, here, either.
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Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #582 on: October 16, 2019, 09:40:34 am »
Can we get some "Peace with honor?"
Yeah, then the democrats can cut the funding after we back out and leave our allies completely screwed. Seems that happened somewhere before...
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #583 on: October 16, 2019, 10:40:59 am »

www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5dyWr7NAhY

Russian mercenaries give video tour of abandoned US base in Northern Syria, laughing at the hasty US retreat, showing unfinished meals on dining tables and heavy military equipment left behind. A Russian propaganda coup.



@Once-Ler

Just because YOU support ISIS doesn't mean Trump does,
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Offline jpsb

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Viewpoint: Syria could be beginning of end for Trump
« Reply #584 on: October 16, 2019, 10:51:36 am »
President Donald Trump's policies on Syria are a disaster largely of his own making - one that could cost him re-election in 2020, says former US Assistant Secretary of State PJ Crowley.

There will not be an article of impeachment that includes Donald Trump's latest decisions regarding Syria among his alleged high crimes and misdemeanours. But the strategic disaster unfolding following his capitulation to Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan could well mark the beginning of the end of the Trump presidency.


https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-50049421

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #585 on: October 16, 2019, 10:55:30 am »
@Once-Ler

Just because YOU support ISIS doesn't mean Trump does,
Look in the mirror @sneakypete .  I'm not the one shamefully defending the release of ISIS combatants in Syria.

Offline TomSea

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Re: Viewpoint: Syria could be beginning of end for Trump
« Reply #586 on: October 16, 2019, 11:07:52 am »
The same way I felt last December but worse, why couldn't he or WE have learned our lesson then? It's a complex matter, so I give some benefit of the doubt, Turkey has about 3.6 million refugees, nothing to sneeze at.  Yeah, I know some of the name Republican politicians must be sitting back and thinking, well, is someone going to get in this race?

If we were going to pull out,  set up a no-fly zone or something. Russia is a lot bigger in force over there and reports say, yes, they've lost quite a few men.

And these Turk-backed militias are the worst in news. Maybe the army itself could have acted halfway respectably.

It's hard to think an all-out war can not occur now, if Turkey has bombed Assad regime forces, which seem to be making their way to the border, these things are tweeted but might not show up in the news.

So easy to avoid, you wonder what a person is thinking!
« Last Edit: October 16, 2019, 11:25:53 am by TomSea »

Offline TomSea

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #587 on: October 16, 2019, 11:22:17 am »
Pence is going over there, word is, Erdogan will only meet with Trump.

After all the fabrications, traps set, I consider them really, about Trump, Russia, Ukraine and so on, this really may be the big miscalculation. Like what is one thinking? To me, it's almost like one's "privileged" upbringing has blinded one to realities. Maybe this compares to the Bay of Pigs fiasco?

Gatestone Institute can get a bit far out for me but:

Quote
How Erdogan Planned This Ethnic Cleansing All Along
by Malcolm Lowe              October 16, 2019

...

It is now clear that Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan intended the annihilation of the Syrian Kurds already two years ago. Moreover, his plans became evident to the US military by the beginning of 2019 and were conveyed to President Trump at that time.

In order to disguise his plans, Erdogan revealed them stage by stage, by making first lesser and then greater demands on the US military, to which Trump agreed -- sometimes in the course of telephone conversations with Erdogan. So Erdogan was able to hoodwink the US military up to January 2019 and to hoodwink Trump up to the current invasion: Trump resolutely defied contrary advice from the military (and from everyone else).

At first, Erdogan demanded the removal of Kurdish militias only west of the Euphrates river. This was the proclaimed aim of his so-called Operations Euphrates Shield and Olive Branch (the expulsion of hundreds of thousands of Kurds from the Afrin area). With that accomplished, he began demanding a Turkish-controlled "security zone" east of the river, to be 32 kilometers deep. The US responded by agreeing to joint US-Turkish patrols in the area. Erdogan demanded that the Kurdish towns in the area should dismantle the fortifications that they had raised to defend themselves from the Islamic State (ISIS). The Kurds agreed, reassured by the US military that this step would remove any excuse for a Turkish invasion.

Read more at: https://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/15036/erdogan-plan-annihilation-kurds

Protests still going on against the Regime, so they are not happy with them either.
https://nedaa-sy.com/en/news/16353

Offline Formerly Once-Ler

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #588 on: October 16, 2019, 11:40:43 am »
Pence is going over there, word is, Erdogan will only meet with Trump.

There is no reason for the President to endanger himself by entering the war zone he helped to create.  Especially when it's all going exactly as Putin commanded.

Jeremy Newberger @jeremynewberger
2m
Turkey's Erdogan says he can not meet @VP  or @SecPompeo  tomorrow as he has beatings all day, and one roadside execution. How does next Wednesday look for you guys?
« Last Edit: October 16, 2019, 11:43:36 am by Once-Ler »

Offline TomSea

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #589 on: October 16, 2019, 11:50:55 am »
Quote
Nicole Gaouette
@NicoleCNN
As @POTUS
 sends his big guns to Turkey -- @SecPompeo
, @VP
 & others -- Erdogan has made other plans: he has accepted an invitation from Russian President Vladimir Putin to go to Russia for a working visit in the coming days, the Kremlin said Tuesday.

4:20 PM · Oct 15, 2019·Twitter Web App

https://twitter.com/NicoleCNN/status/1184217552794329090

Administration has done a lot of good but could we be humiliated per above? That'd be pretty cruel.

Putin has been to Saudi Arabia and UAE these past few days.

And us? What if Erdogan doesn't even meet with us which some people are saying?

How can this situation be salvaged?

Quote
Charles Lister
@Charles_Lister
Remarkable journalism by @evanchill
 & @trbrtc
:

- In the space of 12hrs, #Russia jets targeted #UN-deconflicted hospitals in #Idlib.

@nytimes
 has #Russian radio logs to prove it.

CHECK MATE @mod_russia
.

https://twitter.com/Charles_Lister/status/1184155899809665025
Go to tweet for link to NY Times article.

Quote
Charles Lister
@Charles_Lister
What a disgrace.

@brett_mcgurk
 knows full well what I & others proposed from the get-go -- and it *wasn't* an either/or.

It was clear from Day 1 that as hard as it was, some form of balance between opposition & #YPG was necessary.

If you can't see that now, God help you.



https://twitter.com/Charles_Lister/status/1183520139964309504

There is a heated debate online between these people.

Will Erdogan meet with Pence and Pompeo, maybe. There seems to be some confusion:

https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1184431219523686400

Quote
Ragıp Soylu
@ragipsoylu
Erdogan says countries such as US and Saudi Arabia,  who accuse Turkey of killing civilians,  should first look at the massacres conducted by their operations in Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan.

“They were, supposedly by mistake, were hitting schools, bazaars, and weddings”

https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1184405204516691968

Sadly this is true.



Offline roamer_1

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #590 on: October 16, 2019, 12:59:50 pm »
Sometimes, there is no graceful way to disengage from a political tarbaby. The only defense is to not have touched it in the first place. I can see the use of SF to advise and train as a middle ground to either noninvolvement vs deploying troops in larger numbers, the latter as distasteful as the first, but despite all reports of Assad's actions in Syria, we had no business messing in an internal conflict, especially against a duly elected government. Assad hasn't kept his place by being a nice guy, but then the groups he has to keep in line aren't' exactly playing pattycake, here, either.

I get it.
I don't care.
It ain't right.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #591 on: October 16, 2019, 01:13:16 pm »
Couple questions...

1) Since the Turkey/Kurd conflict “isn’t our problem...400 year war” etc...as some people claim...will they also oppose any sanctions the President imposes on Turkey since as they claim...”it’s none of our business”?

2) Syria is now gearing up their military to stop any further incursion into their country by Turkey...Russia and Iran are backing Syria. If Turkey invokes Article 5 should we come to their defense?  I mean we have an agreement of collective defense with Turkey and no such agreement with the Kurds.
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Erdogan says Turkey's Syria offensive will end if Kurdish fighters withdraw
« Reply #592 on: October 16, 2019, 01:14:59 pm »
Erdogan says Turkey's Syria offensive will end if Kurdish fighters withdraw
Reuters, Oct 16, 2019

ANKARA (Reuters) - Turkey’s offensive into northeast Syria will end if Kurdish fighters in the region drop their weapons and withdraw from a planned “safe zone”, President Tayyip Erdogan said on Wednesday, but warned that no power could stop it until then.

Erdogan said the quickest solution was for militants to drop their weapons and pull back from the area by Wednesday evening. The operation will end when the “safe zone” is established, he said, and Turkey was not open to negotiating this.


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-security-turkey-erdogan/erdogan-says-turkeys-syria-offensive-will-end-if-kurdish-fighters-withdraw-idUSKBN1WV19N?il=0

Offline don-o

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By Jason Jones & John Zmirak October 15, 2019
Jason Jones & John Zmirak

Neither of us held back in criticizing President Trump’s shock decision to pull out U.S. advisors from Syria. That paved the way for Turkey and its al Qaeda mercenaries to bomb and invade our Kurdish allies and Syrian Christians. The Turks promptly started to do just that. Their open aim? Ethnically cleansing the region of Christians, Kurds, and anyone else not to al Qaeda’s liking. Indeed, the Turks began an operation just like they unleashed in Afrin, Syria, last spring.

The Kurdish leadership wisely chose to play its only card to stop that. By pulling out U.S. troops, Trump forced the Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces to make a deal with Damascus. That is, with the legal, if brutal, government of Syria. Now, as the Washington Examiner reports, Russian soldiers have replaced Americans patrolling the Turkish/Syrian border. That’s a win for “America First,” and a campaign promise kept. It’s far better for Syrians than a Turkish-led genocide, and Russia is more committed to the long haul than the U.S. ever was.

https://stream.org/when-the-dust-settles-will-trumps-syria-pivot-end-up-saving-syrian-christians/

Offline Sanguine

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Offline skeeter

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Maybe this is why the republican leaders have 'dialed back' their vocal opposition to the president's recent Syria policy.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #596 on: October 16, 2019, 03:36:23 pm »
Look in the mirror @sneakypete .  I'm not the one shamefully defending the release of ISIS combatants in Syria.

@Once-Ler

No,you're not. What you are doing is trying to damage the Trump Presidency so one of your left-wing loons might be able to win the next election.

Nice try,though.
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Offline TomSea

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Okay, I'm familiar with John Zmirak, https://stream.org/author/johnzmirak/

"Now the same senators (Graham and Rubio) are demanding that the U.S. shoot down Turkish planes to stop McCain’s “moderate rebels” from taking places like Manbij."

Can a quote be found, a citation that this is so? I don't think either have requested this and therefore, this seems to be pure libel. Very unchristian.
Quote
The archbishop, who reported the killing of two Christians on Thursday, in attacks on Qamishli, added: "Now the conflict has become even more serious and I fear that many will emigrate."

Half of Hassaké Catholics and Orthodox Christians are already thought to have fled with similar numbers exiting Qamishli.

http://aina.org/news/20191014190625.htm

The first reaction has to be that the authors are deluded.

If Republicans dialed back their disagreement, it could likely be other factors at work, the Nukes in Turkey, who has been the SDF partners, Nato alliance and so on.

The Christians of that region have organizations in the US and news agencies such as the Assyrian International News Agency . I've liked Trump in many ways but we've also got to be careful to judge the truth as we can find it.  One can try to find what the Chaldeans, Assyrian communities say. I think they feel pretty bad from all of this.

Yeah, showing Turkey to have Jihadist tendencies per what the aiuthors say Trump may have done is really going to be of help to the Christians now.   *****rollingeyes*****

Offline Mod5

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Re: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria
« Reply #598 on: October 16, 2019, 04:08:27 pm »
Stop it.

Offline don-o

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"Now the same senators (Graham and Rubio) are demanding that the U.S. shoot down Turkish planes to stop McCain’s “moderate rebels” from taking places like Manbij."

Can a quote be found, a citation that this is so? I don't think either have requested this and therefore, this seems to be pure libel. Very unchristian.
The first reaction has to be that the authors are deluded.

 

I have requested that the writer provide backup. My conjecture he posing a possible course of action that advocated of unceasing involvement might call for. I will post any response I get.