Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria

[Absalom]

Interesting and often provocative discussion, raising a coupla observations:
*  our rash entry into the Great War internationalized our political focus
    and reversing that, a century later, has become virtually impossible.
*  paraphrasing Lord Palmerston's sage advice, we need to focus on our
    interests and dispense w/the 'allies and friends' malarkey.
   A query; how many allies/friends did Imperial Rome and the British Empire have?

[TomSea]

NORTH PRESS AGENCY
@NPA_SY
#Breaking
Russian forces bombed from al-Farat village west of Manbij with heavy weapons, #Turkish-backed armed opposition groups after an attempt by the latter to infiltrate into the village
#NPA

https://twitter.com/NPA_SY/status/1183798691850784769

It seems pretty important and one can't help but say "good" on reading this, so not an airstrike but with heavy weapons apparently.

Yeah, they need to set up a no-fly zone to stop the Turks, that hasn't happened  yet and the Turks are apparently using some drones over there.

[Cyber Liberty]

Time for Putin to pick a side, and it looks like it's Syria. 

[kidd]

I'd disagree with our going into Syria because it felt right, we went in because ISIS was slaughtering people including Christians, Assad was too busy fighting regular rebels, from my understanding and this may be a bit of dated information, Russia and Assad did not fight ISIS that much. In fact, at times, they may have been opportune with them to fight the rebels.  ISIS rose at least, in part,  because Obama decided to withdraw practically all US troops out of Iraq in 2011. ISIS spread their Caliphate in both Iraq and Syria.

Bush warned against sectarianism, that is what we got.

i
All good reasons to go into Syria. But its still a "feels right" reason, as you feel that it was right to use the military to correct this Obama mistake (and I don't disagree that it was a mistake) and to stop the attrocities. However, there is virtually zero American interests in Syria, other than keeping Russia from having control of the region. We are not the world's police force. If we were, I could argue that the atrocities committed by Boko Haram in Nigeria and Al-Shabab in Somalia (and in the Indian Ocean) to be as bad as ISIS in Syria - and we should risk our people's lives in those areas as well.

It would have been better (and Constitutional) to invoke the War Powers act and make formal reports to Congress. Then there would have been a mandatory objective that Trump would have had to meet rather than his feeling that we've done enough and we can leave.

[berdie]

ISIS is defeated, Tom. Any mopping up of the leftovers in Syria is now in the capable hands of Syrian Armed Forces and the Kurds.

But whack a Shia / whack a Sunni has been the regional sport for centuries and will continue until one or the other side is dead.

ISIS will never be defeated. Much like the dragon's teeth they will always regrow. Sadly, we (the US) are now involved.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Statement from President Donald J. Trump Regarding Turkey’s Actions in Northeast Syria
Oct 14, 2019, Twitter,

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1183833640507269120

[Right_in_Virginia]

Erdogan's done.
Turkey's continued slot in NATO is at risk.
Compromised on the troops, but they're in the South, not NE Syria so the Kurds stay with the agreement reached last night. -- Controls the Kurds' (and Graham's) expectations of what the Kurds will and will not receive from the US.

Next stop should we pull our nukes out of Turkey?

Hell of a day in the cesspool. 

[TomSea]

David French
@DavidAFrench
Ten days ago our nation enjoyed an alliance with the Kurds and a strained but longstanding alliance with the Turks. Now, the Kurds are fleeing to Assad, and our relationship with Turkey is at a terrible low. It’s actually _hard_ to be that bad, that fast, but Trump did it.
12:53 PM · Oct 14, 2019·Twitter for iPad

https://twitter.com/DavidAFrench/status/1183803049233375232

M. Zuhdi Jasser زهدي جاسر
@DrZuhdiJasser
·
15m
I’m sorry, but “increasing tariffs on steel from Turkey” does not a sanction make.

Real sanctions are economic isolation- full stop. Just ask Assad, Iran, or NK.

Anything short is likely a cost #Erdogan already factored into his calculus as an acceptable cost of aggression.

https://twitter.com/DrZuhdiJasser/status/1183840912750731264

This also discusses Trump imposing sanctions which as Zuhdi Jasser points out, really aren't the full-kinds of Sanctions North Korea and such have.

It seems too late to reverse Trump's actions, what is done is done.

Nancy Pelosi says she and Lindsey Graham agree on resolution to block Trump on Syria

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi says she and GOP Senator Lindsey Graham have agreed Congress needs a resolution to "overturn" President Trump's decision to hastily pull troops from northern Syria, and Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell released a statement saying he's "gravely concerned" by what's happening in Syria "and by our nation's apparent response so far."

Later Monday, the president said he plans to issue an executive order imposing sanctions on Turkey over its invasion of Syria, but has not yet imposed such sanctions.

"I am fully prepared to swiftly destroy Turkey's economy if Turkish leaders continue down this dangerous and destructive path," the president wrote in a lengthy statement.

Read more at: https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sanctions-on-turkey-nancy-pelosi-lindsey-graham-agree-on-resolution-to-block-trump-on-syria-tweet-2019-10-14/

Rep. Michael Waltz says US troop pullout from Syria sets conditions for 'ISIS 2.0'
Joshua Nelson

Republican Rep. Michael Waltz said on Monday that President Trump’s decision to withdraw U.S. troops in northeastern Syria is unfolding too soon and creates wars instead of ending them.

“We’ve set the conditions for ISIS 2.0,” Waltz told “America’s Newsroom.” “Except we won’t have any local allies to fight them again.”

He added, “We’re repeating the mistakes of the Obama administration which pulled out of Iraq to soon and led to all of this in the first place."

Read more at: https://www.foxnews.com/media/rep-michael-waltz-says-u-s-troops-pullout-from-syria-sets-conditions-for-isis-2-0

He was on the radio news, he's from Florida. I'm not familiar with him.

[Absalom]

Don't forget it's Monday and there's 7 hours left; so stay tuned!!!
Time to rename State, the Roller Coaster Dept !

[TomSea]

Jenan Moussa
@jenanmoussa
What an incredible video.

Syrian army is seen passing U.S. troops on a main road near Kobani as American forces leave the area.

U.S. out, Syria/Russia in.

@akhbar

https://mobile.twitter.com/jenanmoussa/status/1183849840716996610

That @akhbar has to do with the news agency she reports for.  Anyway, yes, it is an odd video.

Pentagon blaming Turk side for releasing ISIS prisoners, hard to deny Turkey not in cahoots now...even if maybe it was the militias who did this.

[txradioguy]

This combined blood being shed is why I feel my true friend on TBR is so bloody pissed at Trump right now.  Together we've shed blood ridding ourselves of the scourge of Daesh, and I would be more than a little upset at seeing my friends betrayed, as appears to be what's happening.

It goes on the negative side of the Trump Balance Sheet.

QFT

[txradioguy]

Time for Putin to pick a side, and it looks like it's Syria.

It was a no brainer...Russia had been army in arm with Syria for years.

[sneakypete]

This combined blood being shed is why I feel my true friend on TBR is so bloody pissed at Trump right now.  Together we've shed blood ridding ourselves of the scourge of Daesh, and I would be more than a little upset at seeing my friends betrayed, as appears to be what's happening.

It goes on the negative side of the Trump Balance Sheet.

@Cyber Liberty

I understand why you feel that way,but the way *I* see it you and your friends should have never been put in a position to bleed there to start with. WE might have been THEIR allies,but THEY were NEVER OUR ALLIES. We offered,and they took,and who can blame them for that?

The FACTS are that nothing we can ever do in Muslim nation will ever bring us any good will. The cynical part of me things what the US government was really seeking wasn't good will,but profits for the people that own defense industry supply businesses,and their stockholders.

I see no good reason for any American military member to be killed or even get a hangnail while serving to defend nations that despise us and want to see us destroyed.

[sneakypete]

Nancy Pelosi says she and Lindsey Graham agree on resolution to block Trump on Syria

@TomSea

You can always count on Lady Lindsey bending over,flipping up his skirt,and gabbing his ankles when "push comes to shove".

Every day and in every way I am becoming more and more convinces that Lady Lindsey is trying to position herself as an alternative to Trump in 2020.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Dear Ms. Pelousy:

A joint resolution of the Congress, if passed, needs approval from POTUS.  And you've a snowball's chance of getting that.  So if you really want to stop the CIC, declare war on Syria.

Sincerely,
A Proud Deplorable   

[Fishrrman]

TomSea wrote:
"And we are admiting Trump was not truthful in saying ISIS was not defeated 100%.
Obama should have known better, Trump should have known better."

Tom, it is YOU who should "know better".

isis are but this season's bad apples that have fallen from islam's tree.
Before them was the taliban
And al queda
And many others before them.

Even if we were to kill every single one of them, there will be "a new crop" that springs up to take their place soon afterwards.

And this isn't going to change until we "cut down the tree".
You DO know what "that tree" is, don't you, Tom...?

[libertybele]

TomSea wrote:
"And we are admiting Trump was not truthful in saying ISIS was not defeated 100%.
Obama should have known better, Trump should have known better."

Tom, it is YOU who should "know better".

isis are but this season's bad apples that have fallen from islam's tree.
Before them was the taliban
And al queda
And many others before them.

Even if we were to kill every single one of them, there will be "a new crop" that springs up to take their place soon afterwards.

And this isn't going to change until we "cut down the tree".
You DO know what "that tree" is, don't you, Tom...?

Only problem @Fishrrman is the "new crop" will spring up on our soil, and with our southern border still wide open, it won't be long.  The ignorance and/or arrogance of Trump stating and thinking that ISIS will escape to Europe is absurd.  For the U.S. to not learn from Europe's mistakes is really alarming.

[Fishrrman]

We should get the Christians out of there. Get them somewhere safe.
(the Kurds ARE NOT Christians).

As far as the rest of 'em go... they are muslims.
Let them kill as many of each other as they can.
Turks... Kurds... Syrians... Iranians... Afghans... Saudis... Somalians... whatever.

The fewer muslims in the world, the better place it will become.
That's the best "policy" for Western survival.

[libertybele]

We should get the Christians out of there. Get them somewhere safe.
(the Kurds ARE NOT Christians).

As far as the rest of 'em go... they are muslims.
Let them kill as many of each other as they can.
Turks... Kurds... Syrians... Iranians... Afghans... Saudis... Somalians... whatever.

The fewer muslims in the world, the better place it will become.
That's the best "policy" for Western survival.

Get the 'Christians' somewhere safe.  Other than Glenn Beck and the Nazarene fund I don't know of any organization that is getting the Christians out or temporarily relocating them.  Since Trump opted for withdrawal some are now being killed that were relocated, returning only to either be slaughtered or having to relocate again.

Secondly, with Christian refugees on the move, how is anyone going to tell who is who?  We should take a cue from Europe as many refugees entered under the guise of being Christian that were not.  Now Europe has been inundated with terrorists.  France, Germany, Belgium, Denmark, are all having huge problems ... some are building walls now. 

Right around the time Trump was elected he announced that refugees would not be accepted or allowed in from areas of known terrorists.  Where does he think all of these displaced 'Christians' are going to go??  All into Europe??  Heck we haven't been able to vet those that have been pouring over our southern border in the past 6 months -- now this.

[libertybele]

Turkey is a known ally of ISIS, if anyone released ISIS figthers it's Turkey. Don't believe a damn thing either
Erdogan or Trump says about northern Syria or the Kurds. I do believe the Kurds allowed ISIS followers (women
and children) to leave a camp Turkey was bombarding.

Innocent civilians are being killed. Regardless of who freed ISIS militants that fact is they are on the move again, and ultimately it is Trump's decision that created this upheaval. 

[roamer_1]

I understand why you feel that way,but the way *I* see it you and your friends should have never been put in a position to bleed there to start with. WE might have been THEIR allies,but THEY were NEVER OUR ALLIES. We offered,and they took,and who can blame them for that?

@sneakypete
THAT'S RIGHT. We should not have been there in the first place. But we ARE there. And being there, we have made commitments. To just roll it up and walk off without an exit strategy, leaving our erstwhile allies to a bloodbath is simply unconscionable.

I don't care that Tumpy wants out. That's fine. HOW he gets out is the problem. This action is morally and strategically impaired, and that I think is why the Military folks don't like it.

I can see that, plain as day.

[Cyber Liberty]

Not likely.  The Kurds would have been the first and most convenient target for any ISIS fighters upon escape/being released.  Obvious Turkish propaganda.

[TomSea]

Dear Ms. Pelousy:

A joint resolution of the Congress, if passed, needs approval from POTUS.  And you've a snowball's chance of getting that.  So if you really want to stop the CIC, declare war on Syria.

Sincerely,
A Proud Deplorable   

Mitch said today and he said last week, they already have a super-majority to pass these bills.  He said that about last Thursday and he's since reiterated this.

Funny thing, the Democratic system! 

McConnell, who did not mention Trump by name, said Monday that the withdrawal of troops would not help the U.S.'s long-term interest in the region. He reiterated that earlier this year a bipartisan supermajority of senators supported legislation warning against the early withdrawal of U.S. troops from Syria and Afghanistan.

https://www.politico.com/news/2019/10/14/mitch-mcconnell-syria-conflict-046690

@Right_in_Virginia

Oh well, Trump can probably count on Rand Paul and Mike Lee and Tulsi Gabbard in the House.

SUPER MAJORITY BABY! WOOO!

[Cyber Liberty]

@sneakypete
THAT'S RIGHT. We should not have been there in the first place. But we ARE there. And being there, we have made commitments. To just roll it up and walk off without an exit strategy, leaving our erstwhile allies to a bloodbath is simply unconscionable.

I don't care that Tumpy wants out. That's fine. HOW he gets out is the problem. This action is morally and strategically impaired, and that I think is why the Military folks don't like it.

I can see that, plain as day.

Can we get some "Peace with honor?"

[bigheadfred]

@sneakypete
THAT'S RIGHT. We should not have been there in the first place. But we ARE there. And being there, we have made commitments. To just roll it up and walk off without an exit strategy, leaving our erstwhile allies to a bloodbath is simply unconscionable.

I don't care that Tumpy wants out. That's fine. HOW he gets out is the problem. This action is morally and strategically impaired, and that I think is why the Military folks don't like it.

I can see that, plain as day.

Getting the hell out as fast as possible seems like a sound exit strategy to me. I think Trump wants Erdogan to go full muzzie jihad so he can lay down some serious sanctions. And that may include giving up part of turkey to the Kurds.

Our only reason to be in Syria was to play F***-F*** games with the Russians and Iranians.