Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria

[Right_in_Virginia]

GOP congressman: 'We all know' Turkey wouldn't have attacked if U.S. troops remained at border
https://thehill.com/homenews/sunday-talk-shows/465576-gop-congressman-we-all-know-turkey-wouldnt-have-attacked-if-us

And we all know the US wasn't going to help the Kurds attack Turkey.

So where should this have gone?

[Hoodat]

What did the President promise that was not delivered to "the Kurds" @jpsb ??

Asking for a friend.

You've got a point.  Just like Hitler never promised to protect the Jews.

[Right_in_Virginia]

You've got a point.  Just like Hitler never promised to protect the Jews.

So much hate, so little intellect.  The Kurds are fighting their multiple governments for territory .. and they're doing so to the death. The Jews were innocent.  Big difference, learn it --- if you have two working brain cells left.

[Hoodat]

So much hate, so little intellect.  The Kurds are fighting their multiple governments for territory .. and they're doing so to the death. The Jews were innocent.  Big difference, learn it --- if you have two working brain cells left.

Ah, so it has nothing to do with what was promised.  Instead, it has everything to do with your judgment call on whether the Kurds are worth protecting.  Got it.

You should have simply been up front with that from the beginning instead of worrying about protecting Trump.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Ah, so it has nothing to do with what was promised.  Instead, it has everything to do with your judgment call on whether the Kurds are worth protecting.  Got it.  You should have simply been up front with that from the beginning instead of worrying about protecting Trump.

We fulfilled every promise to "the Kurds".  We helped them kill ISIS and we left them richer, better trained and better equipped.

We were not there to protect "the Kurds".  To do this we would have to engage in battle with Syria and Turkey, possibly Russia and as a long-shot, Iran, as well.

Why does this still confuse you?  It's really quite straightforward and simple.

[Hoodat]

We were not there to protect "the Kurds".

Were we there to invite the Turks in to do whatever they want to the Kurds?  Asking for a friend.

[Hoodat]

Ah, here you go, @Right_in_Virginia.  Here are your Trump promises.  This is what he said in January:

Trump gives no timetable for Syria exit; wants to protect Kurds

~ Trump was committed to making sure Turkey did not clash with the Kurdish YPG forces once U.S. troops leave Syria, and was assuring the NATO ally that it would have a buffer zone in the region to help protect its own interests. ~

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-mideast-crisis-syria-trump-idUSKCN1OW1GV

And later that same month:

Trump tells worried ally 'I love the Kurds' in hotel meeting

~ "I love the Kurds," Trump told Kurdish Leader Ilham Ahmed in an unconventional diplomatic meeting at the Trump International Hotel in Washington on Monday night.
Ahmed asked Trump if he would leave the Kurds in Syria to be slaughtered by Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan. Trump promised them he would not. ~

https://www.cnn.com/2019/01/29/politics/trump-kurds-hotel-meeting/index.html

[Hoodat]

Kurds agree to Russian-brokered plan to allow Assad into their territory

Raf Sanchez & Josie Ensor     |     14 October 2019   12:38 am

The West’s Kurdish allies on Sunday night announced they had agreed to a Russian-brokered deal to allow the Assad regime into their territory in a bid to spare their cities from a Turkish assault after they were abandoned by Donald Trump.

Hours after the US said it was withdrawing all of its troops from northern Syria, the Syrian Democratic Forces (SDF) said it had reached an agreement to allow Bashar al-Assad’s troops into their territory.

“If we have to choose between compromises and the genocide of our people, we will surely choose life for our people,” said Mazloum Kobani Abdi, the commander of the SDF.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/10/13/kurds-agree-russian-brokered-plan-allow-assad-territory/


Gee, who saw that coming?

[Smokin Joe]

There should never have been 10,000 ISIS prisoners to begin with.

I am inclined to agree. It should have appeared Vlad Tepes had returned.

[TomSea]

Syrian troops enter northeastern town after deal with Kurdish forces: state media
Ellen Francis, Tuvan Gumrukcu

BEIRUT/ANKARA (Reuters) - Syria’s troops have entered a northeastern town, Syrian state media said on Monday, after Washington announced it was abruptly pulling out its forces, and its former Kurdish allies reached a deal with Damascus to help resist a Turkish attack.

The abrupt U.S. withdrawal from the eight-year Syrian war, and the potential return of the Syrian army to the Kurdish-controlled northeast, are major victories for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and his allies Russia and Iran.

The U.S. announced on Sunday it would swiftly withdraw its remaining 1,000 troops from northeast Syria, just four days after Turkey launched its cross-border offensive with a green light from President Donald Trump.

Read more at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-security-turkey-usa/syrian-troops-enter-northeastern-town-after-deal-with-kurdish-forces-state-media-idUSKBN1WT0ZC

All related Syria stories will be merged into the large thread after a day or so.

[TomSea]

...

With Turkey making increasing noise in recent months about forcing the Kurdish militia away from its border, the American military made contingency plans to get about five dozen of the highest-priority detainees out of Syria.

The planning began last December, when Mr. Trump first announced that he would withdraw troops from the country before his administration slowed down that plan, one official said.

American special forces moved first to get the two British detainees, El Shafee Elsheikh and Alexanda Kotey, on Oct. 9, in part because there was a clear plan for them already in place: The Justice Department wants to bring them to Virginia for prosecution. They are now being held in Iraq.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/13/world/middleeast/syria-turkey-invasion-isis.html

So, we miss getting about 5 dozen high-priority detainees.  They will have them, Assad and the Kurds.

[TomSea]

World News
October 14, 2019 / 3:59 AM / Updated 38 minutes ago
Erdogan sees no issues in Kobani after Syrian deployment, welcomes U.S. withdrawal

ANKARA (Reuters) - Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan said on Monday he does not think any problems will emerge in Syria’s Kobani after a Syrian army deployment is executed along the border, adding that Russia’s Vladimir Putin had shown a “positive approach.”

Earlier on Monday, Syrian army troops entered the town of Tel Tamer in northeastern Syria, according to state media, after Damascus reached an agreement with the Kurdish-led forces in the region to deploy into the area to counter an attack by Turkey.

Read more at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-security-turkey-erdogan/erdogan-sees-no-issues-in-kobani-after-syrian-deployment-welcomes-u-s-withdrawal-idUSKBN1WT11N

So, maybe no confrontation?

[TomSea]

It sounds like they are calling the "Free Syrian Army" the "Syrian National Army" and it sounds like, if there is a battle upcoming soon, it coujld be in Manbij where we have had US military patrols previously.

Syrian National Army: few hours remaining to launch the battle of Manbij against YPG militia
  14 Oct, 2019

The Syrian National Army confirmed that the battle of Manbij east of Aleppo against the People's Protection Units YPG militia will be launched in the next few hours, following threats by Russia and the Assad regime to enter the city.

Major, Yusuf al-Hamoud, a spokesman for the Syrian National Army, said that in cooperation with the Turkish Army, the road will be blocked for anyone who wants to throw some of the vultures off the scent, adding that the battle is about to be launched in few hours.

"Al-Hamoud" stressed that all the rumors circulated about the entry of the Assad regime forces into the city of Manbij and Ain al-Arab in eastern Aleppo countryside are baseless, noting that the regime is trying to achieve some gains in cooperation with protection militia.

Read more at: https://nedaa-sy.com/en/news/16327

This is interesting, this sounds like an Assad relative (grandson of Hafez Assad's sister) was fighting in one of the militias (not necessarily "Islamic extremists" in Latakia (area where Russia's warm water port is and a relatively "safe area") against the Assad government, this is pretty confusing. Also, note, in this picture, he's wearing some sort of garb, yes, it looks a bit priestly but I'm not sure if it is at that.

The grandson of Hafez Al-Assad's sister is killed in clashes in Lattakia
  13 Oct, 2019



"Ghaidiq Marwan Deeb," the grandson of the former head of the Syrian regime Hafez al-Assad's sister and the leader of the al-Ghadiq militia, was killed on Saturday in clashes with the Assad regime's security forces that attacked him at his home in Latakia.

Heavy clashes with machine guns and rocket-propelled grenades took place on Saturday between groups of "security of the regime" and members of the militia "Al-Ghaidiq" when the first attempted to raid the home of the militia leader "Gaidaq Deeb" near the roundabout agriculture in Latakia in order to arrest him, media sources reported.

The sources pointed out that the clashes resulted in a number of dead and wounded in the ranks of both parties, stressing that among the deaths, "Gaidiq" himself, who died as a result of being targeted by a cannon "B10".

Read more at: https://nedaa-sy.com/en/news/16316

Daddy Hafez Assad meeting with Bill Clinton (I know Hafez Assad met with some US Presidents)




So, yes, the "wars" in Syria have even deeply affected the Assad family and this is not the first time either. As said, Syria square miles wise, seems to be similar in size to Florida. What a confusing situation.

What's up with these pictures? I think even back then, Syria was still designated by the state department as being a "sponsor" of terrorism (see support of Hezbollah against Israel and Lebanese civil war too).

[TomSea]

Check this VIDEO out, "our" allies or former allies, SDF welcome Assad's army into Manbij and soon, they could face the Turk army or Turk-backed forces:

Babak Taghvaee
@BabakTaghvaee
·
1h
#BREAKING: I received this video from #SDF. First group of #Syria Arab Army troops entered #Manbij just an hour ago after #US SOF had its last remaining heavy equipment evacuated. Now, #SAA & #SDF are ready to defend the city against #Turkey #OperationPeaceSpring/#BarisPinari!

https://twitter.com/BabakTaghvaee/status/1183672246516244480

2 star flag of Syria on the tank...

While I hate seeing the SDF allied with the Damascus regime,  with us, it was like we were sitting on our hands while the Turks and their forces could just beat the daylights out of the Kurds and the Christians.  I mean, that is what is so galling over the past several days, to see the forces we supported get beat or their civilians.... and plus, Russia will be enforcing a no-fly zone....

It sounds like the SDF did not heavily prepare for the Turk invasion either, they thought maybe it would not come? That the US would be more forceful? What a horrible dark episode.

More from that account.

SAA (Syrian Arab Army- Assad forces) being welcomed into Manbij by SDF.





We had joint patrols with the Turks in Northern Syria, anyway, we will see.  I'm glad they've got some help, what a sad affair.

Brett McGurk
@brett_mcgurk
Bottom line: it’s shameful to leave partners to their fate and the mercies of hostile actors with no thought, plan or process in place. I wish my former SDF colleagues the best as they find new patrons. We won a war together. That’s something nobody can take away from us.

https://twitter.com/brett_mcgurk/status/1183516758587707399

McGurk is not perfect but it does sound like he helped out a whole, whole lot.

https://twitter.com/jseldin/status/1183503196624474112

For international issues, I know who this Senator Jack Reed (D) of Rhode Island is, for international issues, I do think he's competent.  Whether I could ever vote for what else the Dems stand for, domestically, well no... but on this other, some of these guys aren't too bad.

[Right_in_Virginia]

The abrupt U.S. withdrawal from the eight-year Syrian war, and the potential return of the Syrian army to the Kurdish-controlled northeast, are major victories for Syrian President Bashar al-Assad and his allies Russia and Iran.

Here's one scenario...

Assad officially survives the civil war begun to overthrow him.  The Kurds in NE Syria end their push for separate self-governance in exchange for protection from the Turks.  The Kurds welcome the Syrian troops with open arms and stop their fight against the Syrian government, at least for now.

After fighting with the Syrian Army and the threat of crippling sanctions from the US, the Turks will stand down and allow the Syrian army to control the extremist Kurds within their borders; possibly a smaller buffer zone is negotiated.

The Syrian army, under Assad's direction and in their own unique way, will mop up the ISIS escapees.  If necessary, Russia will assist from the sidelines.   Other groups drawn to Syria's war will leave to fight another day, including Iran's proxy, Hezbollah.

Sooner, rather than later, Syria is in control of Syria and the fighting ends, at least long enough to mop up from this war.  The US contributes to the Syrian Marshall Plan. 

-OR-

All hell breaks loose and Turkey and Syria declare war.   

[Right_in_Virginia]

So, we miss getting about 5 dozen high-priority detainees.  They will have them, Assad and the Kurds.

Assad and the Kurds will kill them.   

[Right_in_Virginia]

The Syrian Kurds Are Not America’s Problem
We’ve done right in Iraq. Elsewhere, the Kurdish question is beyond anyone’s ken.
American Spectator, Oct 14, 2019, Brandon J. Weichert

[...]

The fact is, despite being the world’s largest stateless ethnic population, sharing a contiguous landmass that cuts across Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Iran — roughly a 500,000-square-kilometer area — the Kurds are by no means a monolithic entity. What’s more, the United States government has never officially endorsed the concept of a Kurdish state in the Middle East.

Don’t let those facts stop the experts from trotting out many falsehoods and half-truths about the messy situation that is Syria, though. Obviously, the Kurds who have been fighting alongside Americans throughout the entirety of America’s three-decade-long series of Middle East conflicts should be rewarded for their courage. It is utterly confounding, however, that the same “serious” foreign-policy “thinkers” in Washington and media who continually lambaste President Trump for his supposedly destabilizing actions in the Middle East are also in favor of massively destabilizing the region to midwife the birth of an independent, Kurdish state.

The rejiggering of the Middle East map would require more than the paltry American force currently fighting alongside the Kurds of northern Syria. It not only would require the United States to understand the various tribal and regional dynamics between the numerous Kurdish communities throughout the Mideast but would also mean that any potential Kurdish state would have to be cleaved from Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Iran. This could never be achieved peacefully. It would entail some degree of violence and inevitably invoke ethno-religious tribal backlash against the United States at precisely the moment America does not need that headache.

Further, what critics do not understand is that the Kurds have been rewarded for their loyalty to the United States. They also confuse the Marxist elements of northern Syria’s Kurds with the pro-American Peshmerga of northern Iraq.


Read (much) more:  https://spectator.org/the-syrian-kurds-are-not-americas-problem/

[Right_in_Virginia]

FTA

The United States has done the right thing: Washington honored its commitment to Iraq’s Kurdish population by ensuring they exist as a separate yet equal component of Shiite-dominated Iraq. At the same time, though, Washington has ensured that its NATO partnership with Turkey is preserved by refusing to make any new, formal commitments to the Kurds in Syria. This may seem like an unfair move, but this is geopolitics we are discussing here.

[TomSea]

Matthew RJ Brodsky
@RJBrodsky
No shame whatsoever. Just disgusting, fetid, and foul.

https://twitter.com/RJBrodsky/status/1183714152214388737

Matthew Brodsky is American.

Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump
....Kurds may be releasing some to get us involved. Easily recaptured by Turkey or European Nations from where many came, but they should move quickly. Big sanctions on Turkey coming! Do people really think we should go to war with NATO Member Turkey? Never ending wars will end!
6:14 AM · Oct 14, 2019·Twitter for iPhone

[Right_in_Virginia]

Matthew Brodsky is American.

He's also a drama queen.

[TomSea]

Assad and the Kurds will kill them.   

Not really, that's why Assad is a bad guy to do business with and that's why a lot of people don't like this deal.

NEWSWEEK:

How Syria's Assad Helped Forge ISIS
By Simon Speakman Cordall   On 6/21/14 at 12:40 PM EDT

Mohammed Al-Saud is under no illusions. "In 2011, the majority of the current ISIS leadership was released from jail by Bashar Al Assad," he said. "No one in the regime has ever admitted this, or explained why." Al-Saud, a Syrian dissident with the National Coalition for Syrian Revolutionary and Opposition Forces, left Syria under threat of arrest in 2011.

https://www.newsweek.com/how-syrias-assad-helped-forge-isis-255631

A lot of experts say Saddam did the same thing,  actually aiding Jihadists,

Assad was faced with popular protests in 2011 but if they can make it look like radical Islamists are in it, then, they can crush the dissent.

US Judge Rules Assad Helped Al-Qaeda Kill Americans.
     News Analysis
    Published May 8, 2017
    By Ryan Mauro

https://clarionproject.org/us-judge-rules-assad-helped-al-qaeda-kill-americans/

OWN GOALS
How Assad Staged al Qaeda Bombings

The Syrian regime’s collusion with the terrorists it says it is fighting goes back a decade, and it wasn’t above killing its own people to make a point.
Roy Gutman
Updated 04.13.17 12:34PM ET / Published 12.02.16 1:00AM ET

https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-assad-staged-al-qaeda-bombings

Everyone says Assad is a real bad guy, so this decision-making, possibly pushed our allies or former allies into the side that helped killed Americans.

Brilliant.

You want someone who really thrives on chaos, it might be someone more like Assad but it backfired big time and if the Russians and Iranians and Hezbollah did not go in, the Fundamentalist terrorists would have won.

@Right_in_Virginia

[TomSea]

   Lindsey Graham Accuses Trump of Making a 'Huge Obama-like Mistake'
Cortney O'Brien |   @obrienc2|   Posted: Dec 19, 2018 10:48 AM

President Trump may have temporarily lost the faith of Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-SC) Wednesday after announcing the withdrawal of troops from Syria. Graham, who was one of the president's loudest defenders this past year, accused Trump of making an "Obama-like mistake." He suggested that the U.S. is not as far along as it thinks in its effort to defeat ISIS and he offered a preview of the potential consequences of a military withdrawal.

Read more at: https://townhall.com/tipsheet/cortneyobrien/2018/12/19/lindsey-graham-accuses-trump-of-making-an-obamalike-mistake-n2537773

This is all, a lot like Obama did in 2011 and an act which forth, Trump called Clinton and Obama "founders of ISIS".

[sneakypete]

I am inclined to agree. It should have appeared Vlad Tepes had returned.

@Smokin Joe

It ain't pretty,but like many things in life it is soooo true. These people aren't fighting because of political views,which can often be changed. They are fighting for religious views they have been programmed to believe to be the unquestioned truth since the day they were born. The only way to end a religious war with the minimum amount of bloodshed is to get to the religious leaders and make them understand that THEY will be the focus of our anger if they don't call off the dogs,and that it may take several VERY unpleasant days before they die if they refuse.

It's either that,or swim in blood.

[Right_in_Virginia]

Tom, we're not going to stay in Syria as a private police force for the Kurds.  The only other way to make the Kurds, and apparently Lindsey Graham, happy is for the United States to help the Kurds form their own independent state.  And we're not going to do this either. 

Although you keep overlooking it, the "why" we're not going to provide this help to the Kurds is vital to understanding and accepting that our military assistance has reasonable, appropriate and necessary limitations:

The rejiggering of the Middle East map would require more than the paltry American force currently fighting alongside the Kurds of northern Syria.

It not only would require the United States to understand the various tribal and regional dynamics between the numerous Kurdish communities throughout the Mideast but would also mean that any potential Kurdish state would have to be cleaved from Turkey, Syria, Iraq, and Iran.

This could never be achieved peacefully. It would entail some degree of violence and inevitably invoke ethno-religious tribal backlash against the United States at precisely the moment America does not need that headache.

[sneakypete]

   
WOW! A commie Dim Senator from the northeast wrote that?

Ahhh,shocked! SHOCKED,AH TELLS YA!

Why,ifn ah didn't know betta,ah would think there is a election comin' up!

That does it for me! I don't know about the rest of you,but I am going to vote a straight Dim ticket in order to save the Muslim unicorns and keep them from being ground up and sold for dog food by those wascally Republicans!

BTW,no offense to the "good" Republicans that always vote with the Dims in a pinch. Those of you who vote for them know who you are.