Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria

[kevindavis007]

I saw the Kurds might be asking Russia for help. So more Russian interence in that region. So much spending most of the cold war kicking those bastards out.

[mystery-ak]

Mattis warns 'ISIS will resurge' without U.S. pressure on Syria
By John Bowden - 10/12/19 05:15 PM EDT

Former Defense Secretary James Mattis said in a new interview that ISIS will become stronger in northern Syria and Iraq if U.S.-aligned forces do not maintain pressure in the region.

In an interview airing Sunday on "Meet the Press," Mattis warned that the region was in "disarray" due to the invasion of Turkish forces and withdrawal of U.S. troops, which he warned would benefit ISIS forces thought to be hiding in the region as well as those already detained in prison camps.

"It’s in a situation of disarray right now," Mattis said of the northern Syria region currently besieged by Turkish forces. "Obviously, the Kurds are adapting to the Turkish attacks. And we'll have to see if they're able to maintain the fight against ISIS. It's going to have an impact. The question is, how much?"

more
https://thehill.com/policy/defense/465541-mattis-warns-isis-will-resurge-without-us-pressure-on-syria

[DB]

Disarray SOP for this administration.

[Right_in_Virginia]

The Kurds were engaged in a contractual relationship fighting the Islamic State (ISIS).  They were well paid and equipped for their fighting, much like any mercenary group. 

Further, they were given three years to consolidate eastern Syria to feed their long-held desire to form an independent Kurdistan with other Kurds in Turkey, Iraq, and Iran.  They failed.

The Kurds’ problem, and by association that of the U.S., is that regional powers like Turkey and to a lesser extent Iran and Syria have long held the Kurds in disdain.  In fact, Turkey considers the Syrian Kurds to be allies of the Kurdistan Workers' Party or (PKK), which are Turkish Kurds and terrorists fighting for independence for the last 35 years.   

Basically, the Kurds hijacked our fight with ISIS to feed their regional civil war to earn independence.


--- Lt. Col. Robert L. Maginnis, US Army Ret., Oct. 12, 2019


https://www.americanthinker.com/articles/2019/10/missing_the_bigger_picture_in_kurdish_syria.html

[Right_in_Virginia]

Disarray SOP for this administration. 

Nope.  This administration is getting it right.

President Trump is well on his way to learning the lesson of not diving head-first into the cesspool.

As I’ve noted many times, there is simply no reason for us to have a ground presence in Syria at this point. That is a position I’ve maintained since the beginning of the civil war, regardless of who was president.

The tangled web of alliances and enemies is dizzying just to articulate. There is the Sunni insurgency, representing the Sunni tribes in the east, that is constantly fighting the Shiite powers backing the Assad regime. Assad himself has outside help from Iran and Hezbollah, all supported by Russia, which makes the Sunnis resent Assad even more. Putin himself only backs Assad for his own strategic reasons and is not necessarily happy about the Iranian presence there.

Thus, in order to effectively advocate for intervention there, one needs to craft an ever-elusive solution to deal with all of the differently interested powers in the region. But people like Lindsey Graham who want our soldiers engaged in Syria don’t have a plan.

The same people who demanded we be the ones to fight ISIS (the Sunni insurgency in its most recent, but certainly not final, iteration) are the ones who also complain about Iran and Assad.    ---  But nobody has explained how, since we fought the Sunni insurgency, we were not the ones who empowered Iranian hegemony in the region for free.  With our troops out of the region, Russia and Iran would have to face the Sunni backlash without us keeping it in check for them.


--- Daniel Horowitz. Oct 10, 2019



https://www.conservativereview.com/news/trump-actually-right-syria-now-lets-follow/ 

[DB]

Nope.  This administration is getting it right.

LOL...

[Absalom]

Since 1945, our foreign affairs have been riddled w/error in execution and judgement.
In my opinion, this is largely attributable to the people at Defense and State.
When the Pentagon is mentioned, far too many think of an Officer w/a chest of medals.
Hardly, as these DC Offices are infested by bureaucrats w/the mindset of self-preservation.
Add to that the political assholery who fill Congress and the WH and our performance
should have been predictable.

[musiclady]

Disarray SOP for this administration.

Trump thrives on chaos.

[musiclady]

And ISIS to be freed, and Christians to be slaughtered as well............. 

[Right_in_Virginia]

Trump thrives on chaos. 

Actually, no, the President does not.  As any successful businessman quickly learns, "chaos" is the enemy.

The President is changing our strategy in the Middle East, leaving behind the real chaos of that quicksand and replacing it with a cogent strategy putting our interests first, including our fighting men and women.

Here's a pretty good description of the Middle East and what this new strategy is all about:

A simple analogy vividly depicts the lesson lost on most in the Republican foreign policy establishment who believe we need American soldiers left precariously and indefinitely on the ground in tribal civil wars in order to keep us safe. When there are killer whales, sharks, snakes, and scorpions in a cesspool fighting each other, you don’t dive head-first into the tank to try to fight one of those dangers without understanding how you will survive the others or avoid tipping the balance of power to the other beasts.

You stand outside from a position of strength, define your interests, and zap any one of the adversaries that comes out of the tank and inside your zone of interest.

President Trump is well on his way to learning the lesson of not diving head-first into the cesspool. He should follow up with strong action to protect our interests, using the right soft power tools to deter our enemies. That will go a long way toward framing his move out of Syria as a more effective means of deterring a complex web of multiple enemies – often at war with each other – and putting our interests first.

--- Daniel Horowitz, Oct 10, 2019

Read more from Mr. Horowitz:  https://www.conservativereview.com/news/trump-actually-right-syria-now-lets-follow/

[montanajoe]

Lets see who to listen to a tough marine General or a POS draft dodger with bone spurs.... 


Geez...

[TomSea]

Lets see who to listen to a tough marine General or a POS draft dodger with bone spurs.... 


Geez...

Great to see you posting in world news, I'm not sure when the last time I saw you post here, I'm glad you have such compassion for the Kurds to show up.   

[Fishrrman]

RinVa posted (quote from Daniel Horowitz):
" When there are killer whales, sharks, snakes, and scorpions in a cesspool fighting each other, you don’t dive head-first into the tank to try to fight one of those dangers without understanding how you will survive the others or avoid tipping the balance of power to the other beasts. "

Fishrrman's solution:
1. Kill every killer whale, shark, snake and scorpion IN "the cesspool".
2. Drain the cesspool
3. Burn the carcasses.

Problems... solved.
Easy.... eh....?

[Fishrrman]

Are "the Kurds" muslim?
If so.... sorry.

There aren't ANY muslims ANYWHERE that can be considered "our friends".
If you haven't come to understand this in the years since the World Trade Center, you will never understand.

As for Christians living in these countries, the only way to "protect" them is to GET THEM OUT OF THERE.
Again, after WTC, it ought to be apparent to anyone who can reason that Christians are a marked people in islamic lands. As in, "marked for extinction". Even Stevie Wonder could see this reality.

[TomSea]

Ragip use to work for one of Turkey's major news websites in their DC Bureau, he usually would follow the Turkish line, always but he still seems to be a man with integrity and mild mannered, now, he's moved on to Middle Eastern Eye. A decent man seemingly, while at the same time, in the past, having to represent a oppressive regime. One of his latest tweets:

Ragıp Soylu
@ragipsoylu
Syrian National Army says fighters who commit war crimes under their command will be brought to justice.

Let’s hope the videotaped individuals today, allegedly members of Ahrar al Sharqiya, will be swiftly dealt with for killing unarmed prisoners on M4 highway

See image at tweet

https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1183134134627164161

Ragıp Soylu
@ragipsoylu
NEW — UK cannot support Turkey’s military action in Syria, UK PM Johnson told Erdogan in a phone call tonight.

He urged Erdogan to end the operation and enter into dialogue, expressed concern over the humanitarian situation and progress made against ISIS

https://twitter.com/ragipsoylu/status/1183124916658429952

Yes, I can hear the question, "well, if he's decent, how can he be doing what he's doing?", Good question.

[Right_in_Virginia]

RinVa posted (quote from Daniel Horowitz):
" When there are killer whales, sharks, snakes, and scorpions in a cesspool fighting each other, you don’t dive head-first into the tank to try to fight one of those dangers without understanding how you will survive the others or avoid tipping the balance of power to the other beasts. "

Fishrrman's solution:
1. Kill every killer whale, shark, snake and scorpion IN "the cesspool".
2. Drain the cesspool
3. Burn the carcasses.

Problems... solved.
Easy.... eh....? 

Sure.  All we need to do is convince the military-industrial complex to win a war and end it.   

[musiclady]

Lets see who to listen to a tough marine General or a POS draft dodger with bone spurs.... 


Geez...

Not a real hard decision, is it??

(Don't forget that he said his war during Viet Nam was not getting any STD's).

[TomSea]

Mattis or Bolton or McMasters, he was on Cspan the other day, right, he was Secretary of Def or State, I forget which or was it National Security Advisor, anyway, stead hand.  McMasters sounded very good.  Rex, pretty steady too, in fact, Pompeo is fine but he's not running the show enough I think.



It's interesting, that "you can't always get what you want" is played at rallies.

[TomSea]

How nutty is this? Check this out (an apparent Voice of America VOA reporter):

Steve Herman
@W7VOA
Today @POTUS
 released $50 million in stabilization assistance for #Syria "to protect persecuted ethnic and religious minorities, and advance human rights," according to @PressSec


.

https://twitter.com/W7VOA/status/1183174570527854592

The gesture itself is good, I'm just kind of perplexed!

[montanajoe]

As I've mentioned I have spent a lot of time outside of the US since my senior trip, and the change of America's perception and standing by the rest of world is astounding.

Between Korea and Vietnam...e.g.the baby boom generation, the country had enough  folks born in that demographic, to lose sight of the fact that the freedom they had to refuse service in war was given to them by the dead warriors proceeding them.

This fact was not lost on our enemies and the term paper tiger came to describe the US throughout the world. Vietnam validated that claim. We showed the world that 50,000 lives meant nothing and when we wore our uniforms we were spit on when we  got back...(although I suspect most like me didn't take kindly to that..)

To me it's not only the Kurds, but every group we promised support for the last 50 years, and then to have our politicians on both sides have cut their throats, as well as cutting the throats of our kids heritage and our nation.

I've watched much of American politics from outside the country through the years and I'm damn proud to be an American wherever I am. Being an old Montana boy and hunter since I can remember I look at the US today as either the wolves surrounding the sheep in the dead of winter and picking their next lunch or a country of sheep willingly going up the slaughter chute.

Neither scenario will play out, in my opinion, if we maintain  and straighten our military but to do that the folks in this Country can't listen to there favorite  political echo chamber and the latest explanation of what was actually meant.

It's time to grow up, to think for ones selves and  recognize our county is in deadly peril by a multitude of foreign enemies....

[TomSea]

Better bone spurs than burn pits.

[TomSea]

Okay, I wanted to allow Syrian threads to stay separate for a few days but there was a request to "group" them together, so we do have a merge. I will try to figure out how the best way to deal with this is. There were about 12 different threads and most of them were on the board for a while. They will not be merged until they have a bit of time on the board singularly.

[TomSea]

U.S. forces say Turkey was deliberately ‘bracketing’ American troops with artillery fire in Syria


This picture taken Saturday near the Syrian border town of Kobane shows a U.S. observation post where the Pentagon said U.S. troops came under Turkish artillery fire on Friday. (Ozan Kose/Afp Via Getty Images)

By   Dan Lamothe
October 12, 2019 at 6:07 PM EDT

Turkish forces who launched multiple artillery rounds near a U.S. Special Operations outpost in northeastern Syria on Friday have known for months that Americans were there, according to four current and former U.S. officials, raising questions whether Turkey is trying to push American troops farther from the border.

The incident occurred on a hilltop base overlooking the town of Kobane as Turkey continues an operation launched Wednesday against Syrian Kurds, some of whom the United States has partnered with for years in its campaign against the Islamic State. The incursion has focused on an area 60 miles to the west of Kobane, but U.S. officials believe Turkey has long-term aspirations to control a much larger swath of Syria.

The rounds landed about 9 p.m. within a few hundred yards of the base on Mistenur Hill, U.S. officials said. Navy Capt. Brook DeWalt, a Pentagon spokesman, said in a statement that the U.S. troops “came under artillery fire” but were unharmed and that there was an explosion.

Read more at: https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2019/10/12/us-forces-say-turkey-was-deliberately-bracketing-american-forces-with-artillery-fire-syria/

So, the "50" Green Berets were moved off the border, I believe I saw that somewhere, I know someone said that but even if they were just soldiers, if the Turks fired at this installation, I wonder what the safety of the "50" would have been.

[TomSea]

Julie Lenarz
@MsJulieLenarz
This happened almost precisely 3 years ago: Kurdish forces raised the US flag in Tal Abyad, while US soldiers were threatened by Turkish-backed rebels.

The President @realDonaldTrump
 could learn something about honour and loyalty from these fine men and women.

https://twitter.com/MsJulieLenarz/status/1182968317222502400

I understand the importance of oil and perhaps, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is important to secure but still, we are not only sending 1800 (or 2000 or my gosh, I heard one report of 3000) soldiers but planes too. Maybe it is important strategically but we also have our Kurdish allies... and what for them?

[TomSea]

"Should "prioritize" protecting their own borders"??? I don't like the way that sounds at all. I don't see why he couldn't see defeating ISIS as something of a victory but a victory to expand on more, for the goodwill of the USA in the world. I don't like the way that sounds at all!!! If you want "America to be great", sheesh, how great that would be for our image???  I do see though, how this smacks of the argument of "we protect other people's borders, why not our own?" I do get that.

In campaign stop with evangelical Christians, Trump defends his actions on Syria
Jan Wolfe

(Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump on Saturday defended his decision to withdraw troops from northeastern Syria, telling conservative Christian activists that the United States should prioritize protecting its own borders.


U.S. President Donald Trump prays between Tony Perkins, President of the Family Research Council, and Pastor Andrew Brunson (R) at the Family Research Council's annual gala in Washington, U.S., October 12, 2019. REUTERS/Yuri Gripas

“Let them have their borders, but I don’t think our soldiers should be there for the next 50 years guarding a border between Turkey and Syria when we can’t guard our own borders at home,” Trump said in a speech to the Value Voters Summit in Washington, an annual conference of religious conservatives.

Trump was elected in 2016 running on a hard-line immigration policy and has sought to make legal and illegal immigration to the United States more difficult during his more than two years in office, pushing for a wall to be built on the U.S.-Mexico border among other measures.

After a phone call between Trump and Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan last Sunday, Trump made an abrupt policy change and ordered out U.S. forces in northeast Syria who had been fighting with Kurdish YPG militia against Islamic State. Within days Turkey began an offensive against the YPG, which it says is a terrorist group backing Kurdish rebels in Turkey.

Read more at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-religion-idUSKBN1WS014

I get the well-worn argument, people have even said similar here but we should just yank out support and it's certainly a FALSEHOOD to say something like ISIS is "100% percent defeated" which he has said, that's a lie. I can see some points such as people should pull their own weight more.

The Senate needs to get in on this, pass a bill so the Senate can decide this, implement actions if possible. McConnell said the Senate has a super-majority to do some things.

In essence though, there is some truth in saying, "well, illegals kill here in the USA, why aren't we more concerned with that?", That's a valid point but the way this was said, comes out kind of shabby.  I mean, then be Christian...

So, now, the "Rebels" deny they did this?

World News
October 12, 2019 / 1:02 PM / Updated 11 hours ago
SDF says Turkey-backed rebels killed Kurdish politician, rebels deny it

BEIRUT (Reuters) - The Kurdish-led Syrian Democratic Forces accused Turkey-backed fighters of killing a Kurdish politician in an ambush on a road in northern Syria on Saturday, drawing a denial from a Turkey-backed rebel force which said it had not advanced that far.

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, a UK-based organization which reports on the war, said Turkey-backed groups had killed a total of nine civilians on the road, including Hervin Khalaf, secretary general of the Future Syria Party.

Khalaf had been returning from a meeting in Hasaka at the time of the attack in which her driver and an aide were also killed, said Hussein Omar, the Future Syria Party’s coordinator in Europe. Party officials including Khalaf have had contacts with U.S. officials since it was founded in 2018, he said.

Read more at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syria-security-turkey-killing-idUSKBN1WR0JM

We sure are caring about the Saudi Arabian borders? They probably can at that, fess up some money for that but still.