Author Topic: Turkish Invasion of Northern Syria  (Read 24636 times)

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Offline TomSea

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #225 on: October 11, 2019, 03:56:04 pm »
Norway cannot be in NATO and deny another member arms sales.

It has abrogated its commitment in the organization.

Either it needs to leave NATO or to help vote Turkey out.

Actually, I don't know if there is a written regulation that a Nato member must sell weapons to another Nato member-country.

I've already looked into that subject some. Apparently,  one might remember, Nato stands for a treaty.

When one member nation is attacked, then, there is an obligation to help them, so under that ruling,  one could make that argument.

Undoubtedly, as a Nato member, Turkey as did other Nato countries, sent troops to Afghanistan to aid the USA as a Nato member.

North Atlantic Treaty:   https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.htm

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/official_texts_17120.htm

Offline TomSea

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #226 on: October 11, 2019, 04:14:37 pm »
WSJ: Pentagon to deploy 2000 more troops to SA. Yes, that's really bringing the troops home! But no matter, I'm not meaning to be critical, let the militaary handle it.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/pentagon-to-deploy-around-2-000-additional-troops-to-saudi-arabia-11570809038

Also, there are numerous reports of airstrikes on Iranian-backed Militias near Deir-Ezzor yesterday.

https://twitter.com/VivaRevolt/status/1182434687404462081

And a bit more recently, apparently "DAESH" "ISIS" attacked an Iranian convoy in the same general area.:
https://en.deirezzor24.net/daesh-attacks-an-iranian-column-while-heading-to-deir-ezzor/

Reports also that some (5) ISIS prisoners did escape

Offline libertybele

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #227 on: October 11, 2019, 04:18:39 pm »
WSJ: Pentagon to deploy 2000 more troops to SA. Yes, that's really bringing the troops home! But no matter, I'm not meaning to be critical, let the militaary handle it.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/pentagon-to-deploy-around-2-000-additional-troops-to-saudi-arabia-11570809038

Also, there are numerous reports of airstrikes on Iranian-backed Militias near Deir-Ezzor yesterday.

https://twitter.com/VivaRevolt/status/1182434687404462081



And a bit more recently, apparently "DAESH" "ISIS" attacked an Iranian convoy in the same general area.:
https://en.deirezzor24.net/daesh-attacks-an-iranian-column-while-heading-to-deir-ezzor/

Reports also that some (5) ISIS prisoners did escape

News being released now; Yes, the Pentagon is sending more troops to Saudi Arabia -- perhaps this will be Trump's saving grace and hopefully he realizes that listening to Rand and withdrawing troops in Syria was a big mistake.   What I also caught is that the Pentagon is hoping that Congress will allocate $$$$.  My hunch is that the House is going to say "no"!!
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 04:19:37 pm by libertybele »
Romans 12:16-21

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Offline libertybele

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #228 on: October 11, 2019, 04:21:51 pm »
Reports also now coming in that the U.S. did NOT abandon the Kurds.  Glad to see Trump changing his tune on this. 
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #229 on: October 11, 2019, 04:23:17 pm »
News being released now; Yes, the Pentagon is sending more troops to Saudi Arabia -- perhaps this will be Trump's saving grace and hopefully he realizes that listening to Rand and withdrawing troops in Syria was a big mistake.   What I also caught is that the Pentagon is hoping that Congress will allocate $$$$.  My hunch is that the House is going to say "no"!!

I have no problem with the troop deployment to Saudi Arabia.

However...it makes Trump's "endless wars" comment ring very very hollow.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #230 on: October 11, 2019, 04:23:57 pm »
Quote
Car bombing hits Syria's Qamishli, dozens injured and killed
Hisham Arafat


The aftermath of the car bombing on Munir Habib Street, located near Qamishli's popular Omari Restaurant, Oct. 11, 2019. (Photo: Kurdistan 24/Lorans Al-Sher)

QAMISHLI, Syria (Kurdistan 24) - A car bomb exploded on Friday in the predominately Kurdish northern Syrian city of Qamishli, just as it has been targeted by cross-border airplane and artillery bombardment by Turkey. So far, the death toll from the car bombing is unconfirmed, but initial reports suggest that several people have perished and dozens have been wounded, according to initial reports.

The blast rung out on Friday on Munir Habib Street near the city's bustling Omari Restaurant, popular with residents. Three people were killed and nine were injured, according to local Kurdish security forces (Asayish).

Firefighters, ambulance workers, and rescue teams were immediately rushed to the scene to offer assistance.

People at the explosion site told Kurdistan 24 that dozens of bodies are still buried beneath under the rubble as the explosion damaged multiple buildings in the vicinity as well as burning several cars parked nearby.

Read more at: https://www.kurdistan24.net/en/news/719db1f7-308f-40cb-8179-eeaa4be705fa

See, this is in the area being invaded, still, I'll take with a grain of salt everything that is reported, even if it is by some of our more reliable news sources... why? Something could be staged and look like terrorists are aiding the Turkish effort. . So it is up to each of us to judge.  I'd lean towards this probably being true.

This town, is among the first places in the "invasion zone", "safe zone", what have you, Qamishli and there certainly are Christians in this town, already mentioned.



More pictures at link.

Though, I appreciate what Trump says, Jihadism certainly can not be 100% defeated nowadays, it's a threat, there are sleeping cells, it just can't and it can't be defeated in the USA or in Europe currently. Too many factors, it can be contained greatly, I think that is so but even that needs great vigilance.



« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 04:24:49 pm by TomSea »

Offline libertybele

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #231 on: October 11, 2019, 04:29:57 pm »
I have no problem with the troop deployment to Saudi Arabia.

However...it makes Trump's "endless wars" comment ring very very hollow.

Yes Trump made a decision based on sentiment rather than on facts. If he indeed listened to Rand that was a mistake and I think he hopefully is realizing that.  Rand hasn't the military experience needed to make such decisions.  What one would like to see happen and what is reality are two different things.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline TomSea

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #232 on: October 11, 2019, 04:30:55 pm »
News being released now; Yes, the Pentagon is sending more troops to Saudi Arabia -- perhaps this will be Trump's saving grace and hopefully he realizes that listening to Rand and withdrawing troops in Syria was a big mistake.   What I also caught is that the Pentagon is hoping that Congress will allocate $$$$.  My hunch is that the House is going to say "no"!!

Rand Paul may think about the way of wanting out of EVERYWHERE... but I have seen no proof he is directly influencing the president.

Likewise, I don't think the president is changing his tune in 'abandoning the Kurds", I think that is how some of the initial story was covered but I don't know if that was ever fact.  It was withdrawing troops from that area.

It's like all of the people who say Turkey helps ISIS, it may be true but until Turkey is designated as a terror sponsor and I'd support that if true, it's all rumor.



The Kurds really, use none of that Muslim talk though, that is the religion most are probably.

It's either the Kurd tribes Peshmerga I believe that have their own religion, Peshmerga or Yazidis.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 05:04:53 pm by TomSea »

Offline TomSea

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #233 on: October 11, 2019, 04:36:24 pm »
There is a website on Syrian news called "Syria Call" but I generally post nothing from there because the stories to most of us, don't look viable. But I know some of what they've posted has been true. So, they are worth checking out some but there is just so much information out there that we can't trust. Or there is a lot of "disinformation" out there.

They've reported on a number of things about the Kurds and I don't trust their reporting but all the same, it could be true. I think this "Syria Call" is tied up to the so-called "Syrian Free Army":

Quote
YPG militia kidnap and immerse children on the frontlines of fighting in northeastern Syria
  11 Oct, 2019 14:18

The YPG militia forced children of school students to the fronts of fighting against Turkish and Syrian National Army forces in northeastern Syria after they kidnapped them.

Activists said the YPG militia abducted students between the ages of 14 and 17 in front of the Unified School in the city of Hasakah on Thursday.

This is not the first time that the militia have taken and placed children in battlefields and training camps, where UNICEF and United Nations reports confirm that it is a systematic behavior of the YPG.

Read more at: https://nedaa-sy.com/en/news/16282

Just an example. Trustworthy or not.  BUT, they certainly have some good photos that I've seen and I give them credit on that.

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #234 on: October 11, 2019, 04:41:33 pm »
@Right_in_Virginia

Somebody comment on the possibility of Israel offering land/living space to the Kurds. Good idea,or throwing gasoline on a fire? 

Gasoline on a fire.  I think if any group of Muslims has first dibs on carving out a nation-state from Israeli land it would be the Palestinians, not the Kurds.   

I also doubt Israel would voluntarily bring radical Muslims who are part of a group on a terror watch list to live in Tel Aviv --- another strike against the Kurds.   

Just my $.02    happy77

Offline TomSea

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #235 on: October 11, 2019, 04:46:26 pm »
Actually, Caroline Glick is a respected reporter by Conservatives, I think she also writes for Breitbart.


Quote
Caroline B. Glick

Caroline Glick is an award-winning columnist and author of "The Israeli Solution: A One-State Plan for Peace in the Middle East."
Home Opinions
Trump did not betray the Kurds
The US has neither major influence in Syria nor an interest in confronting Turkey to protect the Kurds. Trump avoided war with Turkey this week and began extracting America from an open-ended commitment to the Kurds it never made.
by  Caroline B. Glick
Published on  2019-10-11 10:01
Last modified: 2019-10-11 10:02

The near-consensus view of US President Donald Trump’s decision to remove American special forces from the Syrian border with Turkey is that Trump is enabling a Turkish invasion and double-crossing the Syrian Kurds who have fought with the Americans for five years against the Islamic State group. Trump’s move, the thinking goes, harms US credibility and undermines US power in the region and throughout the world.

There are several problems with this narrative. The first is that it assumes that until this week, the US had power and influence in Syria when in fact, by design, the US went to great lengths to limit its ability to influence events there.

The war in Syria broke out in 2011 as a popular insurrection by Syrian Sunnis against the Iranian-sponsored regime of President Bashar Assad. The Obama administration responded by declaring US support for Assad’s overthrow. But the declaration was empty. The administration sat on its thumbs as the regime’s atrocities mounted. It supported a feckless Turkish effort to raise a resistance army dominated by jihadist elements aligned with the Muslim Brotherhood.

President Barack Obama infamously issued his “red line” regarding the use of chemical weapons against civilians by Assad, which he repudiated the moment it was crossed.

Read more at:  https://www.israelhayom.com/opinions/trump-did-not-betray-the-kurds/

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #236 on: October 11, 2019, 04:47:19 pm »
Gasoline on a fire.  I think if any group of Muslims has first dibs on carving out a nation-state from Israeli land it would be the Palestinians, not the Kurds.   

I also doubt Israel would voluntarily bring radical Muslims who are part of a group on a terror watch list to live in Tel Aviv --- another strike against the Kurds.   

Just my $.02    happy77

@Right_in_Virginia

Thanks. I didn't realize the Kurds were Muslims. I thought they had their own hippy-dippy religion. Now that I know they are Muslims,WHAT THE HELL ARE WE DOING HELPING THEM? Don't they know that Islam is at war with us? It was in all the papers.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #237 on: October 11, 2019, 04:50:12 pm »
My 2 cents is a lot of people say Turkey has aided Jihadists in Syria, if not ISIS where I don't think the connections are that strong but I don't think it is even denied they cooperate with some other groups like Tahrir al Sham, if this is so, Turkey needs to be designated as a state sponsor of Terrorism.  Do it if you want to put weight behind the assertion that Turkey likewise, cooperates with Terrorists.

Offline TomSea

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #238 on: October 11, 2019, 04:53:04 pm »
Gasoline on a fire.  I think if any group of Muslims has first dibs on carving out a nation-state from Israeli land it would be the Palestinians, not the Kurds.   

I also doubt Israel would voluntarily bring radical Muslims who are part of a group on a terror watch list to live in Tel Aviv --- another strike against the Kurds.   

Just my $.02    happy77

Okay, and Trump admits to arming that terror group, that just needs to be stated as well.

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/05/09/trump-approves-arming-kurds-in-defiance-of-turkey.html

I don't know if the knock against the PKK is being radical Muslims though, more like being Marxist Revolutionaries.

Offline jpsb

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #239 on: October 11, 2019, 04:55:53 pm »
Norway cannot be in NATO and deny another member arms sales.

It has abrogated its commitment in the organization.

Either it needs to leave NATO or to help vote Turkey out.

Then why is the USA refusing to give Turkey the F-35s that Turkey bought? Turkey needs to be booted out of NATO. They are rapidly
becoming anther Islamic state. Turkey used to be a secular state, that is no longer the case.

Offline TomSea

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #240 on: October 11, 2019, 05:01:40 pm »
@Right_in_Virginia

Thanks. I didn't realize the Kurds were Muslims. I thought they had their own hippy-dippy religion. Now that I know they are Muslims,WHAT THE HELL ARE WE DOING HELPING THEM? Don't they know that Islam is at war with us? It was in all the papers.

Doesn't look like a Muslim to me. I think it's trying to get cheap brownie points, my $.02 cents, to try to paint them as part of the radical Muslim community. They are more like freedom fighters:



Do they yell "allahu akbar" when they attack?  I'd think most "experts" would not be calling them Muslim-type radicals, this is something else.

Offline musiclady

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #241 on: October 11, 2019, 05:05:40 pm »
Doesn't look like a Muslim to me. I think it's trying to get cheap brownie points, my $.02 cents, to try to paint them as part of the radical Muslim community. They are more like freedom fighters:

Do they yell "allahu akbar" when they attack?  I'd think most "experts" would not be calling them Muslim-type radicals, this is something else.

A Muslim doesn't "look like" anything in particular.

Have you ever been to Bosnia?
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Offline TomSea

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #242 on: October 11, 2019, 05:06:55 pm »
Posted yesterday by another member:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers%27_Party

So, try to make a case they are Islamic radicals, I think that there is nothing to that argument.

They are probably called terrorists as a favor to Nato member Turkey actually.

Offline TomSea

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #243 on: October 11, 2019, 05:09:09 pm »
A Muslim doesn't "look like" anything in particular.

Have you ever been to Bosnia?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurdistan_Workers%27_Party

Yes, I have in fact... but anyway, above is the article posted yesterday. Anyone saying "Well, their Muslims", okay, make the case that the PKK is a Muslim Extremist organization, they aren't. This really isn't about religion with them.

BTW, Trump has admitted arming PKK, terrorist-designated group... so besides all the other points, might that not be a serious matter? ?

What if the President was arming Israel's foes, Hamas or Hezbollah?  I mean, it started under the Obama administration but it seems on the surface, it is a serious wrong per letter of the law to arm terrorist designated groups.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 05:11:03 pm by TomSea »

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #244 on: October 11, 2019, 05:15:46 pm »
Doesn't look like a Muslim to me. I think it's trying to get cheap brownie points, my $.02 cents, to try to paint them as part of the radical Muslim community. They are more like freedom fighters:

Remove the "muslim" @TomSea and replace it with militant communist. 

But if you're going to say the PKK is a group of freedom fighters then you must also say this of the Palestinians.  Both groups have used terror and guerilla warfare as their weapons of choice against the sovereignty of a nation for decades.  There's no getting around this ---  no matter how slick your photos or subtle your snark.


Offline TomSea

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #245 on: October 11, 2019, 05:22:48 pm »
Remove the "muslim" @TomSea and replace it with militant communist. 

But if you're going to say the PKK is a group of freedom fighters then you must also say this of the Palestinians.  Both groups have used terror and guerilla warfare as their weapons of choice against the sovereignty of a nation for decades.  There's no getting around this ---  no matter how slick your photos or subtle your snark.

Nobody is using snark or slick photos.

Again, I think the center-point is, the executive branch has armed the Kurds and likely the PKK... it sounds like Trump has admitted to it.

So, if you have a problem with that, made you should turn your attention to the executive branch of the last 2 presidents.
Quote
Turkey has sought in vain to persuade the US to break its alliance with the Syrian Kurds, accusing the YPG of being the Syrian arm of the Kurdistan Workers’ Party (PKK) that has been waging a guerrilla war against the Turkish state since 1984. “Both the PKK and the YPG are terrorist organisations and they are no different, apart from their names,” said Turkish Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavasoglu on Tuesday. “Every weapon seized by them is a threat to Turkey.”

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/donald-trump-isis-syria-crisis-kurdish-fighters-turkey-raqqa-ypg-a7728741.html

SDF defeated ISIS, a far greater evil. Maybe if  you have criticisms, it should be for 2 presidents that armed the Kurds, I'm all for that but it could be interpreted as wrong and serious if people are going by the letter of the law so much.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #246 on: October 11, 2019, 05:23:08 pm »
Then why is the USA refusing to give Turkey the F-35s that Turkey bought? Turkey needs to be booted out of NATO. They are rapidly
becoming anther Islamic state. Turkey used to be a secular state, that is no longer the case.
Good Question.  A hollow defense treaty.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #247 on: October 11, 2019, 05:25:10 pm »
Again, from the same article:

Quote
Mr Trump approved a plan on Monday to arm the Kurds directly, in order to enable the People’s Mobilisation Units (YPG) Kurdish militia and its Arab allies to assault and capture Raqqa, the de facto capital of Isis in Syria. The US will send heavy machine guns, anti-tank weapons, mortars, armoured cars and engineering equipment to bolster the attack.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/donald-trump-isis-syria-crisis-kurdish-fighters-turkey-raqqa-ypg-a7728741.html

Not my problem, I'm glad we did in fact, but if one is being consistent in talking the Kurd guerillas down, I'd think they have to acknowledge my point.

Offline TomSea

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #248 on: October 11, 2019, 05:28:19 pm »
Good Question.  A hollow defense treaty.

Not really,  a Nato treaty should not give "carte blanche" to a Nato member to act however they want.

Why didn't we sell those to Turkey? Because they are being palsy with Russia to set up a missile defense system in Turkey.

But a much more clear example, is Turkey drilling off of Cyprus. Clearly, this can not be given tacit approval. Clearly, this seems to violate international law:

https://www.seattlepi.com/news/world/article/Cyprus-Turkey-s-new-gas-drilling-bid-severe-14491337.php

I'd say one would have to read the Nato treaty in the context in which it was written, in the Cold War, a few years after World War II.

Offline TomSea

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Re: Turkey set to invade Syria; US to remove forces from area
« Reply #249 on: October 11, 2019, 05:35:45 pm »
Amazingly, here is video from the SDF of Turkey bombing that prison:


https://twitter.com/mutludc/status/1182702824406290432

In the end, over there, everyone can probably be called dirty in some way, certainly the Syrian regime is and a lot of people fighting against them, nothing is perfect. And Turkey probably should be like Syria and Iran, designated state-sponsors of terrorism.
« Last Edit: October 11, 2019, 05:44:20 pm by TomSea »