Author Topic: WWII: Germany grapples with honoring Graf Spee captain  (Read 941 times)

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Offline TomSea

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WWII: Germany grapples with honoring Graf Spee captain
« on: October 03, 2019, 02:23:44 am »
This happened in December, 1939 near Argentina/Uruguay. Like Johnny Carson use to always say, "I did not know that"!

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WWII: Germany grapples with honoring Graf Spee captain

Captain Hans Langsdorff rescued his crew of more than 1,000 men by scuttling his ship, the Graf Spee, rather than fight a hopeless battle in 1939. His daughter says it’s time to honor his moral courage.



On Dec.17, 1939,  the battle-damaged German warship Admiral Graf Spee (pictured above) limped out of the port of Montevideo into the estuary of the River Plate for what was expected to be a decisive clash with Britain's Royal Navy.

But suddenly, to the amazement of the thousands of spectators watching from the roofs and seafront of the Uruguayan capital, she was rocked by a series of explosions. Jets of flame burst from her and a plume of smoke billowed into the reddening evening sky.

The proud ship, which had only four days earlier damaged three British warships in the first sea battle of World War II before steaming to neutral Montevideo for repairs, had scuttled herself in shallow waters. Her wreck burned for three days.



Read more at: https://www.dw.com/en/wwii-germany-grapples-with-honoring-graf-spee-captain/a-50655056

I might have heard a little about this, the Captain committed suicide three days later.

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: WWII: Germany grapples with honoring Graf Spee captain
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2019, 04:59:53 pm »
The Graf Spee was akin to a battle cruiser - near battleship caliber guns but near cruiser degree of armor. He (the Germans used masculine pronouns for their naval ships) was cruising the South Atlantic, commerce raiding when, IIRC, a RN task group of one heavy (8" guns) and 2 light (6" guns) cruisers engaged the Graf Spee. The RN got the worst of the fight, but managed to make some of Graf Spee's fuel oil unusable. The RN fed the Germans inaccurate information, that an RN carrier group had arrived. Meanwhile, Uruguay insisted on Graf Spee leaving Montevideo, as Uruguay was neutral. Thinking his ship and men would be quickly sunk, with many killed, Langsdorff decided to scuttle the Graf Spee to save his crew's lives.

Going hypothetical, while there was no RN carrier group close at hand, at least one was enroute, so Graf Spee's doom was just farther away than Langsdorff thought. He also may not have had enough usable fuel oil to reach a German port (france had not yet surrendered), so one way or another, Langsdorff made the right choice for the sake of his crew. Hitler would have viewed his choice otherwise, of course.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: WWII: Germany grapples with honoring Graf Spee captain
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2019, 09:16:29 pm »
Reviewing the battle some, the RN force that engaged Graf Spee (6X 11" guns in two triple turrets, one fore and one aft) were heavy cruiser Exeter (York/County Class, 6X 8" guns) and light cruisers Ajax and Achilles (Leander Class, 8X 6" guns). Graf Spee had been sent out to sea before the start of the war in anticipation of hostilities.

Two of Exeter's three turrets were knocked out of action and she had to reduce speed because she was hit and taking on water, which eventually disabled her third (aft) turret. She had to break away toward the Falklands for repairs.

Ajax had two turrets (both aft) knocked out of action, a gun in a fore turret had failed, and was down to ~20% ammunition. Achilles' ammunition was probably depleted as well.

Graf Spee had been hit some 60 times, knocking out several functions, including the fresh water production and oil purification facilities. His ammunition was also very low. Langsdorff regarded Graf Spee as insufficiently seaworthy for a trip home to Germany.

Ajax and Achilles were reinforced by HMS Cumberland (County Class, 8X 8" guns), but more powerful reinforcements were thousands of miles away (carrier Ark Royal and battle cruiser Renown (6X 15" guns) were the closest).
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: WWII: Germany grapples with honoring Graf Spee captain
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2019, 05:46:33 pm »
Rather than start a new, redundant, thread:

https://www.thoughtco.com/battle-of-the-river-plate-2361437

World War II: Battle of the River Plate

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With World War II looming, the German Deutschland-class cruiser Admiral Graf Spee was dispatched from Wilhelmshaven to the South Atlantic. On September 26, three weeks after hostilities commenced, Captain Hans Langsdorff received orders to begin commerce raiding operations against Allied shipping. Though classified as a cruiser, Graf Spee was the product the treaty restrictions placed on Germany after World War I which prevented the Kriegsmarine from building warships exceeding 10,000 tons.

Utilizing a variety of new construction methods to save weight, Graf Spee was powered by diesel engines instead of the typical steam engines of the day. While this allowed it to accelerate more rapidly than most ships, it required the fuel to be processed and cleaned before use in the engines. The separation system for processing the fuel was placed aft of the funnel but above the ship's deck armor. For armament, Graf Spee mounted six 11-inch guns making it much more powerful than a normal cruiser. This increased firepower led British officers to refer to the smaller Deutschland-class ships as "pocket battleships."

The Germans didn't use common terminology wrt the Deutschland class. They simply called them "armored ships". And the ships were kind of neither fish nor fowl. Their speed was closer to that of battleships rather than battle cruisers, but their 11" guns were smaller than the smallest main guns of a battleship that I'm aware of (USS Arkansas, 12X 12"/50). OTOH, while they were slower than cruisers while their guns were much heavier than those of a heavy cruiser (8").

In this event, while Graf Spee could and did beat the @#$% out of her opponents, he could not shake them. And with part of his fuel contaminated, a bit chewed up, and low on ammunition ...
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline skeeter

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Re: WWII: Germany grapples with honoring Graf Spee captain
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2019, 05:55:54 pm »
Capt'n Langsdorff was a critic of the Nazis and at the time he shot himself had wrapped himself in Germany's imperial flag, presumably as a statement.

There should be no controversy in honoring him.