The Seven-Year Auto Loan: America’s Middle Class Can’t Afford Its Cars

[Elderberry]

That's the one! It's a Rocket! I don't think he's done any mods other than 35" tires, jacked up, and total exhaust replacement with 5" pipe. I know he want's to replace the front end with a solid axle.

[sneakypete]

I have been through too many boom/bust cycles to get strung out on debt. I have six modest vehicles, a pair of suburbans, a 1 ton van, a Tahoe, a minivan, and a pickup, all old enough to vote, but fully operational (except the ABS on four of them which I disabled because that model block ABS sucks). The house is paid for, and basically no debt.

I'm not making what I was a few years ago, with the drilling end of things pretty much in the crapper around here, but I am making enough to get by.
As for toys, I don't mind calling a friend and chipping in for fuel and bait to go fishing, and I don't camp out much anyway, so I don't need an RV. I really don't care what the neighbors think,

I have friends in lowly places, too, and can get by while others are scrambling to keep their toys.

I have seen it before, I'm just kicking myself for not hanging onto more cash to take advantage of the lower prices, but the boom cycle isn't there yet. There are still a lot of folks making more than they know what to do with, and plenty of others lined up to divest them of it. As long as frac crews are bringing new wells on line, that will persist, just because the landlords can still get the rents they want. I have noticed that there are houses for sale and not moving, and a lot of "now leasing" signs on apartment buildings which used to be full in town.

It's 1984 all over again, here. 'Pubbie in the White House, Dems in Congress, oil down, grain down, and money tightening up...

But with vehicles, there are two schools, one buying the neatest and newest, and others driving pickups from the 70s and 60s, lifted, redone, and sporting pioneer plates (one time fee for vehicles 40 and older). I have a few with those, too.

Smokin Joe

Pretty much the same here,with the exception of I don't really want anything that I don't already have. Yeah, I would KINDA like to have a new Porsche,but the truth is if I had enough money to buy one I probably wouldn't. Spent too many years living in cars and selling blood for food money to spend that kind of money for a car,even if I had it to spend.

Everything I have including my house and all my cars and trucks except for my 2016 Chevy 4x4 crewcab is paid for,and it wouldn't break my heart if I have to call the bank and tell them to come get THEIR truck out of MY yard.

I would be completely out of debt if it weren't for the heart surgeries and the cancer treatment this year,and the VA was SUPPOSED to pay for that. I have to completely get rid of the chemo brain before I have my wits about me and can start screaming at the VA until I get them to step up to the counter.

Meanwhile,it is a good thing everything I need is paid for,because all those unpaid doctor and hospital bills have killed my credit.

[mountaineer]

Practically everybody I see today is determined to live as far beyond their means as possible.

Bottom line. If you can't afford the car/RV/ATV/house/vacation/iPhone/younameit don't freakin' buy it.

[Jazzhead]

   My ol van is 20 years old, Dodge also. Cops don't give me a second look even though my grey beard is a dead giveaway, maybe it's my long hair that makes them think I'm an ol lady just getting off a hard shift at the local Hospital. 

   
   
   I'm really itching for one of these, now that I'm way past my mid life crisis.  Used and half down payment, pay off in 2 years.

I drive a Chrysler 300C,  and it's a blast.   14 years old with less than 70,000 miles.  That's because I walk to the train to work each day.   What a blessing not to have to commute, and be able to take out my Hemi-toy on the weekends.   

[Cyber Liberty]

In my youth, I only bought used cars for the price, along with the problems installed by the original owners poor PM habits.  When I got more affluent, I started buying new vehicles, taking good care of them, then driving the wheels off.  YMMV.   

[sneakypete]

Bottom line. If you can't afford the car/RV/ATV/house/vacation/iPhone/younameit don't freakin' buy it.

@mountaineer

Seems like such a simple concept anyone should be able to understand it,doesn't it? Yet we have multimillionaires going bankrupt from out of control spending for stuff they don't even need and rarely use.

[roamer_1]

BTW,you don't want to hook any of your 70's or 80's trucks to my 6.6 turbo-diesel 06 GMC to see who pulls who backwards,and yes it has leather seats,ac,cruise, Allison transmission,AC that will give you a chill,etc,etc,etc. Every time I drive it I want to throw rocks at my 2016 Chevy crew cab 4x4 when I get home. I have pulled 20k loads with it down the highway at 75 mph with the cruise control locked,and forgotten I was towing anything.

@sneakypete
Knock yourself out. I pull what I need to, without a problem. And if I find it to be not enough, I'll dump a porker back in her, or a 12 valve Cummins, because I can... And I will be putting that old girl back together loooong after yours is a 3x3 cube in a boneyard. All for way less money than you paid in the first place.

 

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

@sneakypete
Knock yourself out. I pull what I need to, without a problem. And if I find it to be not enough, I'll dump a porker back in her, or a 12 valve Cummins, because I can... And I will be putting that old girl back together loooong after yours is a 3x3 cube in a boneyard. All for way less money than you paid in the first place.

 

TRUCK SIZE CONTEST!

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete
Knock yourself out. I pull what I need to, without a problem. And if I find it to be not enough, I'll dump a porker back in her, or a 12 valve Cummins, because I can...

 

@roamer_1

And because you would have to in order to even have a prayer of being able to match me.

AND....,you still wouldn't have a chance if I were to put a tuner kit in mine,which is a HELL of a lot easier than rebuilding and modifying something so you MIGHT be able to keep up.

I AM a fan of the Cummings inline diesels,though. I am a fan of inlines,period. Didn't get one because Chrysler didn't have any transmissions that would stand up to them for the longest time.

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

And because you would have to in order to even have a prayer of being able to match me.

AND....,you still wouldn't have a chance if I were to put a tuner kit in mine,which is a HELL of a lot easier than rebuilding and modifying something so you MIGHT be able to keep up.

I AM a fan of the Cummings inline diesels,though. I am a fan of inlines,period. Didn't get one because Chrysler didn't have any transmissions that would stand up to them for the longest time.

@sneakypete
That's the point. I don't need to keep up with you. I pulled a D-6 out of the woods with (parts of) the same dang truck I am driving now. Do you want to know how many times I have had to pull a D-6 sized load in my whole damn life? Twice, maybe three times. Who gives a shit about more than that?

REALITY: Anything I NEED to do, my truck does just fine - Hell-on-wheels fine. Hauling a pickup home on a trailer, or haulin a 2-horse trailer, or a couple tons right in the back, 80mph, right on down the road. If I need more than that, I am going to get the dang 2-ton anyway.

So keep your POS. Over 200k you're on borrowed time. The motor will go way further than that, but the tranny and the wiring gremlins sure as hell won't.

In the mean time, this truck of mine was a 3/4T heavy when I bought it (after the odo had already rolled over a couple times). I rebuilt it, drove it into the ground, rebuilt it again as a 1T porker, and drove it into the ground... It's a heavy half right now, and just about in the ground again.

I have a fresh body for it now... an 80 I think... sweet, and straight as a pin. Got the 3/4T posi undercarriage ready to go, and all I am fussing with right now is trying to waller through whether to go auto (700R-4), or rejigger an NP 4500 5sp to work with my t-case, r just go with a drop-gear, because I want overdrive this time around. Thought about putting the porker back in it - I have a tight and right 427 laying around... But nah... A 400 hp small block will do anything I need it to.

So far, I am in the stuff for this rebuild about 2500 bucks (really hard to put a number on it - Most of it is probably actually free by now). And if that's the turf we're playing on, I am gonna win all day long.
 

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete

So keep your POS.

@roamer_1

Touched a nerve,didn't I? Jealousy is never pretty.

Over 200k you're on borrowed time.

You are delusional. 400k MINIMUM before it even needs rings and a valve grind,and I am going to get more because I use synthetic oils and don't "dog" mine.

The motor will go way further than that, but the tranny and the wiring gremlins sure as hell won't.

Yeah,everybody knows Allison transmissions are junk,right?



In the mean time, this truck of mine was a 3/4T heavy when I bought it (after the odo had already rolled over a couple times). I rebuilt it, drove it into the ground, rebuilt it again as a 1T porker, and drove it into the ground... It's a heavy half right now, and just about in the ground again.

I have a fresh body for it now... an 80 I think... sweet, and straight as a pin. Got the 3/4T posi undercarriage ready to go, and all I am fussing with right now is trying to waller through whether to go auto (700R-4), or rejigger an NP 4500 5sp to work with my t-case, r just go with a drop-gear, because I want overdrive this time around. Thought about putting the porker back in it - I have a tight and right 427 laying around... But nah... A 400 hp small block will do anything I need it to.

With trucks it's all about torque.

So far, I am in the stuff for this rebuild about 2500 bucks (really hard to put a number on it - Most of it is probably actually free by now). And if that's the turf we're playing on, I am gonna win all day long.
 

If it's that important to your ego,I will pretend to agree.

[roamer_1]

Touched a nerve,didn't I? Jealousy is never pretty.

@sneakypete
Naw... I have flipped a few 90's and 00's... Like I said upthread. The reason I don't have one is because they're junk. I have been trying to upgrade for years. Can't find anything worth having. Like I said, just throwing a plow on it is useless. and taking it up in the sticks, same thing - I will wreck that IFS in 6 months. I know, because I have done it before.

I have to be in the 3500's before I can get a straight axle, and for that alone, without a straight axle conversion, I want NOTHING to do with em.

Jealous? Not in the least. Like I said, you can keep the damn thing.

You are delusional. 400k MINIMUM before it even needs rings and a valve grind,and I am going to get more because I use synthetic oils and don't "dog" mine.
Yeah,everybody knows Allison transmissions are junk,right?

Yeah... My boy been through two Allisons... In two years... They ain't all that. Better than anything else you can get these days, but that ain't saying much. I want a stick.

And as a point of order, I SAID the motor would go longer, but that the tranny and the wiring wouldn't
And wiring is a massive big deal. Them gremlins start showing up, send it down the road, because there is more wire in that dang thing than a space shuttle.

With trucks it's all about torque.

Nah. A myth. TRUE as far as it goes... But it don't go that far. For the very few times that would be a question, I can just slip on down to low range, and if that ain't enough (which it always will be) I can put the doubler in low and pull your dang truck right in two. With a 400 hp tree-fitty and lockers.

And in the mean time, I get the nimbleness and top end of a small block for normal driving.

Diesel's fine and all for what it is, but there is more than one way to skin a cat. Torque is easy. Traction is what counts... At least when you are on a track out in the bush somewhere.

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete

Nah. A myth. TRUE as far as it goes... But it don't go that far. For the very few times that would be a question, I can just slip on down to low range, and if that ain't enough (which it always will be) I can put the doubler in low and pull your dang truck right in two. With a 400 hp tree-fitty and lockers.

You are delusional.

And in the mean time, I get the nimbleness and top end of a small block for normal driving.

Yeah,causen your imaginary 400 hp is so much more than my stock 365 HP,I have 3:73 gears,and top end is REALLY what is important in a truck,huh?

Torque is easy. Traction is what counts... At least when you are on a track out in the bush somewhere.

It would have been less embarrassing for you to have just said you don't understand torque. And you don't.  Hell,you don't even understand power at low rpm's versus power at high rpms.

I'm done with you on this one.

[roamer_1]

You are delusional.


Yeah,causen your imaginary 400 hp is so much more than my stock 365 HP,I have 3:73 gears,and top end is REALLY what is important in a truck,huh?

It would have been less embarrassing for you to have just said you don't understand torque. And you don't.  Hell,you don't even understand power at low rpm's versus power at high rpms.

I'm done with you on this one.

LOL! No @sneakypete , it is you that doesn't understand... Research a NP 203/205 Doubler and understand that I am at something like 400 or 500 to one in double-low coming out of the t-case,  and you are at something like 80 or 90 to 1 in low range...

I don't have it for torque, I have it for off-road and rock crawling out in the bush (like the lockers). But the torque is there in spades. crazy, stupid torque. I will take gears every time over motor.

[sneakypete]

LOL! No @sneakypete , it is you that doesn't understand... Research a NP 203/205 Doubler and understand that I am at something like 400 or 500 to one in double-low coming out of the t-case,  and you are at something like 80 or 90 to 1 in low range...

I don't have it for torque, I have it for off-road and rock crawling out in the bush (like the lockers). But the torque is there in spades. crazy, stupid torque. I will take gears every time over motor.

@roamer_1

Gears are nothing but torque multipliers.

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

Gears are nothing but torque multipliers.

@sneakypete
RIGHT. Think that through...
 

[corbe]

   You know what they say about Guys with really large Trucks   

[roamer_1]

   You know what they say about Guys with really large Trucks   

Yeah...



 

[corbe]

[roamer_1]

 


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[sneakypete]

@sneakypete
RIGHT. Think that through...
 

@roamer_1

If you have enough torque at low engine speed,you don't need lower gears.

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

If you have enough torque at low engine speed,you don't need lower gears.

That is entirely subjective @sneakypete

[sneakypete]

That is entirely subjective @sneakypete

@roamer_1

Not really. The goal is to move forward or backward without spinning your tires and getting stuck or just not moving because your tires are spinning.

I learned how to drive by driving 50's cars on the beach and across sand dunes.

[SZonian]

I'm driving a 98 K1500 my oldest son bought used in 05 going to "Nuke School". My youngest used it till he bought his own and now I'm drivin' it. It only has abt 270,00 sum od miles on it and still goin' strong.

@Elderberry very nice!  I'm pushing 170k on mine with basic maintenance and she still accelerates like a mustang chomping at the bit.  Gonna have to spend some $$ on her soon, but she's worth it.

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1

Not really. The goal is to move forward or backward without spinning your tires and getting stuck or just not moving because your tires are spinning.

I learned how to drive by driving 50's cars on the beach and across sand dunes.

@sneakypete
Sure, but how many gears there are between you and the ground is subjective, and really a matter of requirement.

Look - For me, I am happy to pay less gas, and have less weight (serious problem off-road) with a pretty peppy  small block that is all the rig I need day to day. On the rare occasion I need more, I can slip on down to low range (2 or 4wd) and git er done.

Can it haul four horses down the road at 80? Nope. But that ain't what it's for. That's what the 2 1/2T 5th wheel tractor is for. Big brakes, a 10/2... Why the heck would I use the pickup? But mine against yours, no doubt you will haul more on the road. That ain't what it's for.

But see, what I DO need it to do, it shines at. Want to bet which one of our rigs can get closer to an elk up in the sticks? No question. Mine will kick that diesel's butt all day long off road. It's a rock buggy with a body. It's a mountain goat, and that's what I made it for.

And that's what I mean by gearing being subjective. It matters what you want it to do.

That's why it's going back to 3/4T too - 4:55 gears means taller tires and better crawl, not more weight, though it will do that too. And that's also why I need to figure out over drive.

See? For all you want to defend it, that diesel is a pig on roller-skates where I want to go. And that IFS would be laying on the ground in a few months. It just won't handle what I need it to do. No fault no foul - just the bare truth.

What you consider the epitome of what a truck is for means nothing to me, and in fact is a detriment. I wouldn't have it if you paid me.

What it IS matters to what it DOES. And mine does just fine. Hella fine.