U.S. Supreme Court Schedules NRA-Supported Second Amendment Case for Argument

[Elderberry]

NRA-ILA Friday, September 20, 2019

In January, the U.S. Supreme Court agreed to hear a Second Amendment challenge to a gun control law for the first time in nearly 10 years. The case arose from a New York City regulation that banned city residents with “premises” handgun licenses from taking their own legally-owned firearms outside Gotham for lawful purposes. The city defended the law all the way to the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit, insisting it was essential to public safety. But ever since the Supreme Court agreed to hear the appeal of that decision, city and state officials in New York have been running scared, desperately maneuvering to convince the justices to dismiss it. Now, it seems, their reckoning may be nigh, as the high court has scheduled the case for argument on Dec. 2.

The lawsuit, New York State Rifle & Pistol Assoc., Inc. v. City of New York, offers a revealing look into the mindset of gun control extremists, and in particular, their refusal to acknowledge the Supreme Court’s precedents that recognize the right to keep and bear arms as a fundamental, individual liberty.

Indeed, over a decade after the Supreme Court made clear that handguns are a protected Second Amendment “arm” and cannot be banned, New York State still generally prohibits the mere possession of pistols and revolvers. State residents, however, may qualify for an “exception” to this ban by obtaining a license issued by the locality in which they reside. The difficulty of obtaining a license depends on where in the state a person lives.

New York City, to no one’s surprise, is the most onerous place to get a handgun license. For the “average” person (that is, for someone who is not well-connected to city officialdom or rich and famous) the only feasible choice is a “premises license.” That license allows a person to keep a handgun in his or her home or place of business. Even then, the process takes many months, multiple trips to police headquarters, and hundreds of dollars in mandatory fees. Licensing officials also have broad discretion to deny licenses, even when the applicant has no criminal convictions.

More: https://www.nraila.org/articles/20190920/us-supreme-court-schedules-nra-supported-second-amendment-case-for-argument

[Cyber Liberty]

So they denied the Motion to moot the case?  Cool!

[Bigun]

So they denied the Motion to moot the case?  Cool!

 

[OfTheCross]

 We'll see how this plays out.

NY, per capita, is one of the safest states in the Union when it comes to gun-related deaths

[Cyber Liberty]

We'll see how this plays out.

NY, per capita, is one of the safest states in the Union when it comes to gun-related deaths

As usual, highly accurate numbers from another bullshit leftist nutcase group, in this case, Ms. shot-in-the-face Gabby Giffords. 

 

[Smokin Joe]

We'll see how this plays out.

NY, per capita, is one of the safest states in the Union when it comes to gun-related deaths

For starters, don't go by anti-gunner's opinions of 'gun safety' which involve ridiculous laws, not statistics. Gifford's and others scorecard ratings are commonly tied to the onerous legislation passed by a given jurisdiction, and subject to the anti-gun bias in their assumption that any given legislation has any efficacy.
 
This isn't a New York State regulation but New York City.
 
As a State, using 2014 numbers from the FBI's UCR data, New York State was roughly number 30 in the nation for murder rate. (Murders per 100K population) Don't confuse that with the number of murders, because that rate times the (population/100,000) will give the number of murders. New York is one of the more populous states.
 
Source

So, while New York State's murder rate (3.1/100K) may hover just above that of North Dakota in 2014 (3.0/100K)*, the North Dakota rate amounts to 22 bodies (a bad year) while New York State's amounts to 612 people dead.

But for New York City, the murder rate is different, at 3.9/100,000, instead of the State's 3.1, which with a population of 8,47 million translates into 330 dead people, over half of the dead folks in a lot less space than the rest of the State.

Now, this doesn't control for type of murder, nor for those shot, but unexpired ("aggravated assault"), just for dead folks who were killed intentionally (murder and non-negligent manslaughter), but that would make the City over 25% less safe than the State as a whole (including the City).

If you can come up with better numbers (statistical comparisons), I'd love to see them.

*North Dakota saw an uptick in violent crime during the boom years, especially after some bleep went on TV with a series called "Boomtown USA" advertising to criminal elements all over the nation that they could make a fortune and operate unmolested here because police were overwhelmed by towns doubling and more in population. (If I ever meet that SOB, I owe him a beat down, and there'd be a long line of locals who'd want in on it.)

[OfTheCross]

For starters, don't go by anti-gunner's opinions of 'gun safety' which involve ridiculous laws, not statistics. Gifford's and others scorecard ratings are commonly tied to the onerous legislation passed by a given jurisdiction, and subject to the anti-gun bias in their assumption that any given legislation has any efficacy.
 
This isn't a New York State regulation but New York City.
 
As a State, using 2014 numbers from the FBI's UCR data, New York State was roughly number 30 in the nation for murder rate. (Murders per 100K population) Don't confuse that with the number of murders, because that rate times the (population/100,000) will give the number of murders. New York is one of the more populous states.
 
Source

So, while New York State's murder rate (3.1/100K) may hover just above that of North Dakota in 2014 (3.0/100K)*, the North Dakota rate amounts to 22 bodies (a bad year) while New York State's amounts to 612 people dead.

But for New York City, the murder rate is different, at 3.9/100,000, instead of the State's 3.1, which with a population of 8,47 million translates into 330 dead people, over half of the dead folks in a lot less space than the rest of the State.

Now, this doesn't control for type of murder, nor for those shot, but unexpired ("aggravated assault"), just for dead folks who were killed intentionally (murder and non-negligent manslaughter), but that would make the City over 25% less safe than the State as a whole (including the City).

If you can come up with better numbers (statistical comparisons), I'd love to see them.

*North Dakota saw an uptick in violent crime during the boom years, especially after some bleep went on TV with a series called "Boomtown USA" advertising to criminal elements all over the nation that they could make a fortune and operate unmolested here because police were overwhelmed by towns doubling and more in population. (If I ever meet that SOB, I owe him a beat down, and there'd be a long line of locals who'd want in on it.)

Well, my numbers were accurate, as well. But you're right, they were for the entire State of NY.

Even still, going by the data you provided, a murder rate of 3.9/100,000 seems great for a city that size. Especially when the average State rate is 11/100,000

If I have time, I'll look up other major cities to compare and contrast when I get home tonight.

[Cyber Liberty]

Well, my numbers were accurate, as well. But you're right, they were for the entire State of NY.

Even still, going by the data you provided, a murder rate of 3.9/100,000 seems great for a city that size. Especially when the average State rate is 11/100,000

If I have time, I'll look up other major cities to compare and contrast when I get home tonight.

I'm sure the "numbers are accurate."  Figures don't lie, but liars figure.  There are a bunch of Engineers on this forum, and you can count on being called out in detail when you try to bullshit us with fudged statistics.  You don't get any kind of Engineering degree without at least a couple semesters of Statistics. 

Quit while you're ahead.

[Bigun]

I'm sure the "numbers are accurate."  Figures don't lie, but liars figure.  There are a bunch of Engineers on this forum, and you can count on being called out in detail when you try to bullshit us with fudged statistics.  You don't get any kind of Engineering degree without at least a couple semesters of Statistics. 

Quit while you're ahead.

And beyond that @OfTheCross, many of us don't give one hoot in hell about your statistics.  We ARE going to keep our guns and there is not one thing you or anyone else can do to prevent it.

@Cyber Liberty

[Wingnut]

And beyond that @OfTheCross, many of us don't give one hoot in hell about your statistics.  We ARE going to keep our guns and there is not one thing you or anyone else can do to prevent it.

@Cyber Liberty

You ain't just whistling Dixie my friend.  Do Da... Do Da.

[Cyber Liberty]

And beyond that @OfTheCross, many of us don't give one hoot in hell about your statistics.  We ARE going to keep our guns and there is not one thing you or anyone else can do to prevent it.

@Cyber Liberty

Good point, that is the true, practical bottom line.  Even if "reasonable gun restrictions" really did "help" (a debatable proposition if there ever was one) we're not handing over our means of self defense.  We're Americans, not Europeans!

[OfTheCross]

I'm sure the "numbers are accurate."  Figures don't lie, but liars figure.  There are a bunch of Engineers on this forum, and you can count on being called out in detail when you try to bullshit us with fudged statistics.  You don't get any kind of Engineering degree without at least a couple semesters of Statistics. 

Quit while you're ahead.

You posted as if you didn't read my post. 

There's nothing to quit. We both posted accurate information.

On topic, though,  a murder rate of 3.9/100,000 seems great for a city the size of NYC

[Cyber Liberty]

You posted as if you didn't read my post. 

There's nothing to quit. We both posted accurate information.

On topic, though,  a murder rate of 3.9/100,000 seems great for a city the size of NYC

The person here with the reading comprehension problems is not me.  Try reading @Smokin Joe's post above, that destroys the lies you called figures.  On topic:  You are at your potential worst when you try to justify the Rats' attempts to grab the guns on virtually every thread you darken.

Back up the thread, read what Joe said.  Until you do, I guess you can be ignored by everybody.

[OfTheCross]

The person here with the reading comprehension problems is not me.  Try reading @Smokin Joe's post above, that destroys the lies you called figures.  On topic:  You are at your potential worst when you try to justify the Rats' attempts to grab the guns on virtually every thread you darken.

Back up the thread, read what Joe said.  Until you do, I guess you can be ignored by everybody.

I already responded directly to him and that's what you quoted. But either you didn't read Joe's complete post or you didn't read my complete post, or both.

NYC is way down on the list of murder rate. Like I said, they're doing well for being such a large city.

[Cyber Liberty]

I already responded directly to him and that's what you quoted. But either you didn't read Joe's complete post or you didn't read my complete post, or both.

NYC is way down on the list of murder rate. Like I said, they're doing well for being such a large city.

I saw you pull the usual leftist bullshit of ignoring what he wrote and simply repeating your talking point as if it was a legitimate retort.  You're doing it again.  If I didn't know better I'd suspect you are trolling the forum.

[Wingnut]

If I didn't know better I'd suspect you are trolling the forum.

I don't know any better so I'm going with Florida troll's for a thousand Alex.

[OfTheCross]

I saw you pull the usual leftist bullshit of ignoring what he wrote and simply repeating your talking point as if it was a legitimate retort.  You're doing it again.  If I didn't know better I'd suspect you are trolling the forum.

What specific point of his do you want me to respond to if not the fact that I posted the stats for the State of NY and not the city of NY?

[Cyber Liberty]

What specific point of his do you want me to respond to if not the fact that I posted the stats for the State of NY and not the city of NY?

Give me one reason to explain it to you (again).  Hell, don't bother, I won't waste my time.  You are a time waster who doesn't conduct a proper discussion, but just repeats talking points after good people take great pains to explain something to you.   I have no patience for time wasters because life's too short.

[PeteS in CA]

So they denied the Motion to moot the case?  Cool!

Evidently. Had the USSC taken NYC's sham-bait the lower court ruling would not have been binding outside of the Second Circuit (though taken into consideration during similar cases). The ordinance is unconstitutional on its face, making actually bearing arms almost impossible.

[Cyber Liberty]

Evidently. Had the USSC taken NYC's sham-bait the lower court ruling would not have been binding outside of the Second Circuit (though taken into consideration during similar cases). The ordinance is unconstitutional on its face, making actually bearing arms almost impossible.

Additionally, they would have simply reinstated the bad law the moment they got what they wanted from SCOTUS.  They still might.  I think that's what the Justices saw when they decided to ignore the alleged moot.

[Smokin Joe]

New York City's 3.9/100K murder rate is pretty good, actually, but I would not necessarily say that has anything to do with their gun laws. Consider that there are other cities with similar laws which have considerably higher murder rates (Chicago (24.13/100K), DC 18.0/100K), and that NYC is at a statistical low. There are ways to game that, too. By contrast, I have also heard that for a time, during the oil boom up here, Courts in at least one metro area in the US were giving homeless people one way bus tickets to ND (which accounts for the mob of homeless we saw here,) Consider that these people were sent into an area where winter kills and finding a place to live was a considerable challenge (companies like Halliburton were renting houses for up to $10K/month to use for employee housing)

But if we want to look at only firearm murders per 100K, North Dakota pales in comparison with New York State with 0.6/100K vs New York State's 4.4/100K (Again, still comparing apples to oranges, because NY State does not equal NYC, the jurisdiction in question covered by the law, and it is difficult to find information which allows a clean comparison of murder rates by firearm for the States and Cities for the same year).

Such an environment (data wise) allows for a lot of cherry picking and manipulation to push an agenda.

Compared to the major cities of the world, America's worst are still pretty safe, and the number of guns in American hands is only exceeded by India and China. But the big difference, and perhaps (just as the Founders intended) what keeps this nation the most free, is that the US has an estimated 120 firearms per 100 persons in civilian hands, but in India and China, there are only 5.3 and 3.6 civilian owned firearms per hundred people, respectively, meaning all others are in the hands of the State, one way or another.

The other factor not included is the rate of gun ownership, considering New York's is at 10.3% for the State, but North Dakota's is at 47.9%--nearly five times the rate of gun ownership in NY. source