Author Topic: Country Music by Ken Burns  (Read 4170 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Fishrrman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,558
  • Gender: Male
  • Dumbest member of the forum
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #25 on: September 24, 2019, 04:21:34 pm »
The opening sequence music for episode 2 was completely wrong.

It was an otherwise-excellent recording of Stephen Foster's "Hard Times", but it was by Mavis Staples, who has no authentic connection to American white "country" music.

This is not to denigrate Ms. Staples, who is a wonderful singer in her own right, but again, this was not the track to use for opening this segment.

A much more appropriate version would have been that of the great Red Clay Ramblers, recorded around 1978 (attached below). They essentially "revived" Hard Times, as I don't recall hearing it performed much before their version, yet it is more popular today.

The Ramblers' version should have been the track used.


Error 404 (Not Found)!!1

Addendum (made after reading other comments above):
I agree with dfwgator above -- there's too much of an attempt to interject black influence into this series (but that's a Ken Burns "trademark" and one had better steel oneself with that knowledge before digesting his product).

Yes, black music had some influence on the development of "country" music, but it's by-and-large the creation of Euro people, and reflects their heritage.

(Aside: Arthur Shulz, the black fiddler/guitarist, was an influence of Monroe, and Monroe traveled with DeFord Bailey back in the Jim Crow days).

I'll be interested to see what Burns and his writers say about Bill Monroe in episode 3 (I've only viewed 2 of them so far). In my view, if Ayn Rand's John Galt had been a musician, he would have been Monroe!
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 04:31:04 pm by Fishrrman »

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #26 on: September 24, 2019, 05:19:13 pm »

Quote
The opening sequence music for episode 2 was completely wrong.

It was an otherwise-excellent recording of Stephen Foster's "Hard Times", but it was by Mavis Staples, who has no authentic connection to American white "country" music.

This is not to denigrate Ms. Staples, who is a wonderful singer in her own right, but again, this was not the track to use for opening this segment.


@Fishrrman

Do you SERIOUSLY make the claim that black sharecroppers in the 30's knew nothing about hard times??????

The TRUTH is black and white Americans living in rural America had more "equality going on" than either could stand. They often worked together and helped each other out when someone was having a particularly hard time. They had a HELL of a lot more in common with each other than either did with the blacks or whites living in the cities,and their lives reflected this.

So did their music. If Pops Staples were alive today,he could and would tell you the truth on this matter. He and his girls got their start with him as a preacher and them singing in the choir of his church. If you don't understand what I am talking about,find a black holiness church and a white holiness church in a rural area,and attend a few services. When the music starts playing and voices start singing,they get so full of the "Holy Spirit" it's a wonder nobody explodes.

BTW,there is a famous story about "Will the Circle Be Unbroken" by the Carter Family being sang at the funeral of a black woman at the request of her family. The Carters were on tour,and something happened to their car and they just happened to pull off the road where the funeral was being held. The black mourners knew who they were and asked them if they would sing that song at their mama's funeral,so they dragged out their guitars and went for it. I am guessing they had one HELL of a backup choir on that one.

The point here really being that the rural blacks immediately knew who the Carter Family were,knew their music,and felt comfortable asking them to sing at their mother's funeral.

The other point is they were happy to do it.

For the most part,blacks and whites in this country didn't really have many problems until they moved into cities. Rural people back then pretty much lived the same lives and had the same dreams,regardless of skin color.

Not to mention most were too tired at night to cause trouble,even if they happened to live close enough to a town with a bar. You worked from sunrise to sunset except for Sunday,and then you ate supper and went to bed. When there was no work to do you didn't have enough money to go anywhere and cause any trouble.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online catfish1957

  • Laken Riley.... Say her Name. And to every past and future democrat voter- Her blood is on your hands too!!!
  • Political Researcher
  • *****
  • Posts: 31,458
  • Gender: Male
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #27 on: September 24, 2019, 05:30:29 pm »
Anybody else watching this on PBS? There is some seriously good stuff being played and discussed,and if you even remotely like country music,gospel,blue grass,or blues,you would enjoy it.

Is Burns keeping out his SJW tendencies that have polluted previous documentaries?
I display the Confederate Battle Flag in honor of my great great great grandfathers who spilled blood at Wilson's Creek and Shiloh.  5 others served in the WBTS with honor too.

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #28 on: September 24, 2019, 05:33:28 pm »
Is Burns keeping out his SJW tendencies that have polluted previous documentaries?

@catfish1957

So far the only ones I have noticed have been so minor they were barely worth noticing. It's hard to criticize someone for saying blacks and whites in rural American got along pretty well in the 30's and 40's,because they did.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Neverdul

  • Moderator Gubernatorial and State Races
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1,596
  • Gender: Female
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #29 on: September 24, 2019, 05:56:44 pm »
I’ve read several sources that make the creditable claim that the banjo came to US shores via the Caribbean via West African slaves. Sure there were many string instruments from all around the world, but the banjo was an instrument brought by and played primarily by slaves in early America.

http://bluegrassbanjo.org/banhist.html

I love this group BTW – Carolina Chocolate Drops – and the incomparable Rhiannon Giddens.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcCmg9Oj9XM

They do all sorts of Americana music, traditional negro spirituals, bluegrass, early blues, country and even Gaelic.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8RtT0obOS80


Seriously, you can’t listen to the Johnny Cash/ June Carter Cash song Jackson without hearing the influence of old “negro” and early blues music.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODsZjAHoWD0


So This Is How Liberty Dies, With Thunderous Applause

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,733
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #30 on: September 24, 2019, 05:59:21 pm »
I’ve read several sources that make the creditable claim that the banjo came to US shores via the Caribbean via West African slaves. Sure there were many string instruments from all around the world, but the banjo was an instrument brought by and played primarily by slaves in early America.


More than any other thing, I truly miss my Aida 5 string  :crying:

Offline Fishrrman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,558
  • Gender: Male
  • Dumbest member of the forum
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #31 on: September 24, 2019, 06:05:49 pm »
Pete tries to chide me with:
"Do you SERIOUSLY make the claim that black sharecroppers in the 30's knew nothing about hard times??????"

Of course I know that.
But this series IS NOT ABOUT black sharecroppers or about blacks in general.

It's about (or at least it's SUPPOSED TO BE about) the history of WHITE "country music".

As such, I state that it's inappropriate to use music tracks that have little or no relation to such music.

Pleasant Carter did use a black guy to go around with him and help him remember melodies. But again, are you going to imply that the vast majority of the Carter Family's material was not from a Euro heritage?

C'mon.

Addendum:
The definite work on the Carter Family (in my music library):
https://www.amazon.com/Carter-Family-Their-Legacy-American/dp/074324382X/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=will+you+miss+me&qid=1569348514&s=gateway&sr=8-2
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 06:08:55 pm by Fishrrman »

Online Ghost Bear

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,417
  • Gender: Male
  • Not an actual picture of me
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #32 on: September 24, 2019, 11:06:14 pm »
...

It's about (or at least it's SUPPOSED TO BE about) the history of WHITE "country music".

As such, I state that it's inappropriate to use music tracks that have little or no relation to such music.

...

So, should the documentary have included Charlie Pride, or just left him out, in your opinion?
Let it burn.

Offline roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,733
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #33 on: September 24, 2019, 11:16:26 pm »
Seriously, you can’t listen to the Johnny Cash/ June Carter Cash song Jackson without hearing the influence of old “negro” and early blues music.


That's right, btw... Memphis ain't that far from Nashville, and never has been... Delta Blues and Country have much that is the same - The early stuff isn't even a difference.

It has long been said that you can;t sing the blues without living the blues, and likewise country - probably the major difference between the Haggard generation and today... Rhinestone Cowboys (heh. knowing your affinity for GC)

 :beer:

Offline Gefn

  • "And though she be but little she is fierce"-Shakespeare
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,358
  • Gender: Female
  • Quos Deus Vult Perdere Prius Dementat
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #34 on: September 24, 2019, 11:20:09 pm »
My mom has been watching this on tv and loves it. I’ve been binge watching something else on Netflix.

G-d bless America. G-d bless us all                                 

Adopt a puppy or kitty from your local shelter
Or an older dog or cat. They're true love❤️

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #35 on: September 24, 2019, 11:39:13 pm »
Quote
I’ve read several sources that make the creditable claim that the banjo came to US shores via the Caribbean via West African slaves.
 

@Neverdul

I have no reason to disbelieve the banjo originated in Africa,but it damn sure wasn't brought here by slaves. The slaves that left Africa by ship were chained in the holds and didn't even own clothes. The only "possession" they had were chains,and they didn't even own the chains.

Chances are some of the crew bought and learned to play them,and that's how the banjo came to North America.

<I>I love this group BTW – Carolina Chocolate Drops – and the incomparable Rhiannon Giddens.</I>

No kidding. Especially about the remarkable Miss Giddens.


 
« Last Edit: September 24, 2019, 11:40:32 pm by sneakypete »
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #36 on: September 24, 2019, 11:44:50 pm »

Pete tries to chide me with:
"Do you SERIOUSLY make the claim that black sharecroppers in the 30's knew nothing about hard times??????"

Of course I know that.
But this series IS NOT ABOUT black sharecroppers or about blacks in general.

It's about (or at least it's SUPPOSED TO BE about) the history of WHITE "country music".</I>

No,it's about the history of Country Music. Music doesn't have a color.

 
Quote
Pleasant Carter did use a black guy to go around with him and help him remember melodies. But again, are you going to imply that the vast majority of the Carter Family's material was not from a Euro heritage?

No. I just fail to see what that has to do with it. Are you seriously trying to imply that blacks didn't play,enjoy,and even dance to Country Music?


 
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #37 on: September 24, 2019, 11:46:58 pm »
My mom has been watching this on tv and loves it. I’ve been binge watching something else on Netflix.

@Gefn

Don't worry about it. It's not going to disappear. If you don't want to buy it,just wait until your local PBS station does another fund raiser,and watch it then.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline Fishrrman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,558
  • Gender: Male
  • Dumbest member of the forum
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #38 on: September 25, 2019, 01:30:19 am »
Sneakypete asked:
"Are you seriously trying to imply that blacks didn't play,enjoy,and even dance to Country Music?"

Did you enjoy the short clip of Uncle John Scruggs in part 1?

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #39 on: September 25, 2019, 01:40:34 am »
Sneakypete asked:
"Are you seriously trying to imply that blacks didn't play,enjoy,and even dance to Country Music?"

Did you enjoy the short clip of Uncle John Scruggs in part 1?

@Fishrrman

I don't watch or listen to music videos anymore. I don't even have speakers. I had to do this because I would click on one music link,and end up spending the rest of the day watching and listening to more.

Sorry! After reading my response it occurred to me you meant Part 1 of the series.

The truth is I don't remember it. Still suffering from chemo brain. Better now,but still have a long ways to go.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2019, 01:42:00 am by sneakypete »
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online berdie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,758
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #40 on: September 25, 2019, 09:32:52 pm »
So, should the documentary have included Charlie Pride, or just left him out, in your opinion?



In my opinion, Charlie Pride's segment was great. At the time he rose to fame there was still a lot of racial strife, especially in C&W. And he showed great humor. I had no idea that Farron Young* was such a help to him. Of course I like him and his voice. I don't care what color the guy is. He was a ground breaker with a great voice. I have many musicians in my family as well as friends. They all listen to all kinds of music. So I don't think Burns is far fetched about the cross overs.

I also enjoyed the Loretta Lynn  segment and her humor. And I'll always wonder what Billy Joe and the girl were dropping off the bridge. I'm only thru segment 5 of this doc. But so far, I don't see a lot of political bs. Don't know if I'll be able to stay up long enough to see segment 6 tonight but my plan is to try.

*My dearly departed and I had a record of Young singing "Burning Bridges". It was "our song".

Offline GrouchoTex

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,382
  • Gender: Male
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #41 on: September 25, 2019, 09:49:33 pm »
Last night, they had the outlaw country, Willie & Waylon, Armadillo World Headquarters, etc.
Good stuff again.


Offline Gefn

  • "And though she be but little she is fierce"-Shakespeare
  • Cat Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 18,358
  • Gender: Female
  • Quos Deus Vult Perdere Prius Dementat
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #42 on: September 25, 2019, 10:00:04 pm »
Willie is da man
G-d bless America. G-d bless us all                                 

Adopt a puppy or kitty from your local shelter
Or an older dog or cat. They're true love❤️

Online AllThatJazzZ

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,633
  • Gender: Female
  • Adopt your next pet, preferably a senior.
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #43 on: October 02, 2019, 02:39:31 pm »
I got to watch the first episode and a couple more (5 & 6 maybe? :shrug:). It aired during baseball season, and I couldn't be pried away from Astros games. I'm hoping they eventually re-air the series at some point. If they do, I hope someone will bump this thread and give everyone a heads-up.


A government big enough to give you everything you want
is a government big enough to take away everything you have.


Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #44 on: October 02, 2019, 03:01:38 pm »
  I'm hoping they eventually re-air the series at some point. If they do, I hope someone will bump this thread and give everyone a heads-up.

@AllThatJazzZ

Call me a wild-eyed optimist,but I am pretty sure they will air it again. And again,and again,and again. EVERY time PBS has a fund-raiser they will air most of it. They won't air it all because they want to sell the DVD set to raise funds,but they will air most of it.

I will also be surprised if you can't get it off of one of the streaming channels for a fee,or just buy it outright as a boxed set right now.

And,"Yes,it IS worth what you will have to pay for it,even though I don't know how much that is at this point. I recorded and watched the whole damn thing,and there wasn't a single part I didn't enjoy the hell out of.

I especially liked the parts showing Hank Williams at the Opery way back then. It's easy now to forget what a 20 foot tall monster he really was back then. He just hit the music country music industry running,and flat took over.

I had forgotten so much of that stuff over the years,but it definitely brought back childhood memories. If you lived in MY house back in the 50's,you either watched the Grand Old Opery when it came on,or you went and found something else to do because that was an argument you were NOT going to win. Same with the old Ed Sullivan Show. For all practical purposes,the other two channels back then could have just gone off the air for that hour because nobody was watching them,anyhow.

It was on the Ed Sullivan Show that a VERY young sneakypete fell in love with Keely Smith and the type of music she was singing. I even admired her husband,Louie Prima. I never even knew such music existed before Ed Sullivan came into my house.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #45 on: October 02, 2019, 03:35:15 pm »
I watchedthe 8th and final episode last night. I received it  on the PBS streaming channel on Roku.

Never any charge. Episodes 1-8 available right now.

The history aspect is great. The music aspect is great. Do not miss it.

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline sneakypete

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 52,963
  • Twitter is for Twits
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #46 on: October 02, 2019, 07:35:15 pm »
I watchedthe 8th and final episode last night. I received it  on the PBS streaming channel on Roku.

Never any charge. Episodes 1-8 available right now.

The history aspect is great. The music aspect is great. Do not miss it.

@truth_seeker

I agree. I can't remember the last time I saw anything I enjoyed so much.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online berdie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5,758
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #47 on: October 02, 2019, 07:49:38 pm »
@truth_seeker

I agree. I can't remember the last time I saw anything I enjoyed so much.




Me either @sneakypete . It could have easily gone on another 16 hours and would have been just as enjoyable. :laugh:

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #48 on: October 02, 2019, 07:58:21 pm »
 I saw the preview and concert, and the first episode.   It looks to be a superb series.   I was inspired by the first episode to do a deep dive into the Carter Family's music,  which I am still digging thanks to lot of songs and documentary material on YouTube.   My stars,  Maybelle Carter's guitar playing is a revelation!
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: Country Music by Ken Burns
« Reply #49 on: October 02, 2019, 08:02:19 pm »
@truth_seeker

I agree. I can't remember the last time I saw anything I enjoyed so much.

My roots are not the pure Nashville aspect.

But the series was highly educational by knitting together things I knew.

I grew up with Roy Rogers, Gene Autrey, the Sons of the Pioneers.

El Paso, Tom Dooley, and 60s folk.

For me fast forward, Willie Nelson sings Kristofferson songs (abt. 1981).

My father simply loved Johnny Cash.

A lot of American folk music came from the British Isles.

And we have sent it back for them to enjoy. And they have sent some back over, again.


Error 404 (Not Found)!!1
« Last Edit: October 02, 2019, 08:48:34 pm by truth_seeker »
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln