Author Topic: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent  (Read 2571 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline OfTheCross

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 739
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2019, 11:55:38 pm »
You're right, the private insurance we have today is not great, at least its nothing compared to the private insurance we had in 2009, before the government decided they could make it more 'affordable'.

Over the next several years I experienced at x3 increase in my premium, got dropped by three consecutive insurers as they went out of business and watched the quality of my insurance plummet.

I'm currently in a health care sharing group right now, relatively untouched by the government for the time being, and it actually approaches the quality of insurance I had before Obama f*&^ everything up.

Anyway I'm not totally convinced a total government takeover of the healthcare industry is a really great idea.

It's not an unprecedented idea. In many places it's been in effect for more than 50 years.



Australia   1975
Austria   1967
Bahrain   1957
Belgium   1945
Brunei   1958
Canada   1966
Cyprus   1980
Denmark   1973
Finland   1972
France   1974
Germany   1941
Greece   1983
Hong Kong   1993
Iceland   1990
Ireland   1977
Israel   1995
Italy   1978
Japan   1938
Kuwait   1950
Luxembourg   1973
Netherlands   1966
New Zealand   1938
Norway   1912
Portugal   1979
Singapore   1993
Slovenia   1972
South Korea   1988
Spain   1986
Sweden   1955
Switzerland   1994
United Arab Emirates   1971
United Kingdom   1948

table
If a well-regulated militia be the most natural defense of a free country, it ought certainly to be under the regulation and at the disposal of that body which is constituted the guardian of the national security.

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,331
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2019, 11:57:21 pm »
You're right, the private insurance we have today is not great, at least its nothing compared to the private insurance we had in 2009, before the government decided they could make it more 'affordable'.

Over the next several years I experienced at x3 increase in my premium, got dropped by three consecutive insurers as they went out of business and watched the quality of my insurance plummet.

I'm currently in a health care sharing group right now, relatively untouched by the government for the time being, and it actually approaches the quality of insurance I had before Obama f*&^ everything up.

Anyway I'm not totally convinced a total government takeover of the healthcare industry is a really great idea.

I'm 100% convinced that it's a terrible idea.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,536
  • Gender: Female
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #27 on: September 17, 2019, 12:15:21 am »
I'm 100% convinced that it's a terrible idea.

I really like my private insurance and want to keep my doctors!
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 79,873
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2019, 12:28:46 am »
It's not an unprecedented idea. In many places it's been in effect for more than 50 years.



Australia   1975
Austria   1967
Bahrain   1957
Belgium   1945
Brunei   1958
Canada   1966
Cyprus   1980
Denmark   1973
Finland   1972
France   1974
Germany   1941
Greece   1983
Hong Kong   1993
Iceland   1990
Ireland   1977
Israel   1995
Italy   1978
Japan   1938
Kuwait   1950
Luxembourg   1973
Netherlands   1966
New Zealand   1938
Norway   1912
Portugal   1979
Singapore   1993
Slovenia   1972
South Korea   1988
Spain   1986
Sweden   1955
Switzerland   1994
United Arab Emirates   1971
United Kingdom   1948

table

Are you sure you want the USA to emulate Slovenia and Kuwait?   Bahrain?  Is that the case you are making here?  Because if it is, it's a notion even more idiotic than I first thought.

This is not a country that follows, it leads.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Wingnut

  • That is the problem with everything. They try and make it better without realizing the old is fine.
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,279
  • Gender: Male
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #29 on: September 17, 2019, 12:33:16 am »
Are you sure you want the USA to emulate Slovenia and Kuwait?   Bahrain?  Is that the case you are making here?  Because if it is, it's a notion even more idiotic than I first thought.

This is not a country that follows, it leads.

Liberals always what to change America into something less than great.
I am just a Technicolor Dream Cat riding this kaleidoscope of life.

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 79,873
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #30 on: September 17, 2019, 12:34:52 am »
Liberals always what to change America into something less than great.

Yup!  America is too great, and must be taken down a couple of pegs.  This was Obastard's core governing philosophy.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline OfTheCross

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 739
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #31 on: September 17, 2019, 12:54:01 am »
Are you sure you want the USA to emulate Slovenia and Kuwait?   Bahrain?  Is that the case you are making here?  Because if it is, it's a notion even more idiotic than I first thought.

This is not a country that follows, it leads.

We're currently leaders in prescription drug prices and medical expenses :patriot:

If a well-regulated militia be the most natural defense of a free country, it ought certainly to be under the regulation and at the disposal of that body which is constituted the guardian of the national security.

Offline corbe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 38,072
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #32 on: September 17, 2019, 12:58:57 am »
   Yea, I want the Fed Gov to control $hit when they can't even keep a guy on suicide watch locked in their jail, alive.
   Besides:

   TTIUWP

No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 79,873
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #33 on: September 17, 2019, 01:07:52 am »
We're currently leaders in prescription drug prices and medical expenses :patriot:

I'll bet you didn't even take five minutes between hearing that, and bringing that non-thought argument to TBR from DU or KOS, or whatever third-world shithole you got it from.

Tell me...why do you suppose the cost of medicaations "cost more" in the US?  Hmmm?
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #34 on: September 17, 2019, 01:22:05 am »
Ironic that his England has a form of Universal Health Care
Then why don't YOU make it your bleeding heart  mission, to move all those poverty case Americans, to England?

Obamacare was supposed to solve America's uninsured problems.

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline truth_seeker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 28,386
  • Gender: Male
  • Common Sense Results Oriented Conservative Veteran
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #35 on: September 17, 2019, 01:35:46 am »
Do democrap voters know there is a monthly fee for Medicare and the program is still is financial trouble? Of course not. Do they know Medicare recipients pay for a private supplement premium that will become illegal under the democommie's plan? Of course not. They know nothing and they vote.
Not to mention that most current medicare beneficiaries, paid for decades via payroll deductions.

And there were so many lies about Obamacare, I would never believe a word from the government.
"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline OfTheCross

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 739
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #36 on: September 17, 2019, 11:41:37 am »
I'll bet you didn't even take five minutes between hearing that, and bringing that non-thought argument to TBR from DU or KOS, or whatever third-world shithole you got it from.

Tell me...why do you suppose the cost of medicaations "cost more" in the US?  Hmmm?

So why not reform the whole system? Where's the President Trump's plan to ameliorate the situation?
If a well-regulated militia be the most natural defense of a free country, it ought certainly to be under the regulation and at the disposal of that body which is constituted the guardian of the national security.

Offline Applewood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,361
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #37 on: September 17, 2019, 12:30:40 pm »
So why not reform the whole system? Where's the President Trump's plan to ameliorate the situation?

The president shouldn't have to have a plan.  In fact, government should keep its sticky fingers out of health care and health insurance.  As we have seen, when congress and Obama shoved Obamacare down our throats, it made our health care and its affordability worse.  Do you really think the situation will get any better if  we have medicare for all. 

Government-run health care isn't really about health care.  it's about government control over our very lives.  Government in effect decides who lives and who dies.  In Canada and the UK, there are waiting lists for treatment.  Some people, especially the elderly, are rejected for treatment entirely because they are too old or whatever and some government bureaucrat or bureaucrats decided these patients are not worth spending money on to treat.  When you surrender your health care decisions to the government, you are giving it the power to decide whether you should live or die. 

I once worked with a woman from England.  Her parents and siblings still live there.  One day she was in the ladies room crying, so I asked her what was wrong.  She explained her father desperately needed heart surgery, but he had been put on a waiting list and wasn't moving up.  Meanwhile, he was getting weaker and my coworker was afraid he was going to die before he could get the surgery.    Not sure how, but my colleague and her husband were eventually able to bring the father to the US for surgery and last I heard he was doing well.  But most patients in the UK who are using the government health system aren't so lucky. 

And you should look at Cuba.  Years ago, Cuba was reputed to have one of the best health care systems in the world.  Now after decades of government control, the health care system is a mess.  I was reading a few years ago that antibiotics were in short supply.  Something is wrong with your health care system if you can't get antibiotics.  This sort of thing is what happens when government gets involved in health care.  Health care turns into *bleep*.

It's bad enough that my insurance dictates that I have to use a  particular diabetes med that doesn't  work instead of one that does.  I don't want some federal bean counter making decisions on my health care.

Offline OfTheCross

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 739
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #38 on: September 17, 2019, 12:40:17 pm »
The president shouldn't have to have a plan.  In fact, government should keep its sticky fingers out of health care and health insurance.  As we have seen, when congress and Obama shoved Obamacare down our throats, it made our health care and its affordability worse.  Do you really think the situation will get any better if  we have medicare for all. 

Government-run health care isn't really about health care.  it's about government control over our very lives.  Government in effect decides who lives and who dies.  In Canada and the UK, there are waiting lists for treatment.  Some people, especially the elderly, are rejected for treatment entirely because they are too old or whatever and some government bureaucrat or bureaucrats decided these patients are not worth spending money on to treat.  When you surrender your health care decisions to the government, you are giving it the power to decide whether you should live or die. 

I once worked with a woman from England.  Her parents and siblings still live there.  One day she was in the ladies room crying, so I asked her what was wrong.  She explained her father desperately needed heart surgery, but he had been put on a waiting list and wasn't moving up.  Meanwhile, he was getting weaker and my coworker was afraid he was going to die before he could get the surgery.    Not sure how, but my colleague and her husband were eventually able to bring the father to the US for surgery and last I heard he was doing well.  But most patients in the UK who are using the government health system aren't so lucky. 

And you should look at Cuba.  Years ago, Cuba was reputed to have one of the best health care systems in the world.  Now after decades of government control, the health care system is a mess.  I was reading a few years ago that antibiotics were in short supply.  Something is wrong with your health care system if you can't get antibiotics.  This sort of thing is what happens when government gets involved in health care.  Health care turns into *bleep*.

It's bad enough that my insurance dictates that I have to use a  particular diabetes med that doesn't  work instead of one that does.  I don't want some federal bean counter making decisions on my health care.

left alone, the Private Insurance Industry on it's own cost too much and didn't cover many people with serious conditions.

If someone is of the mindset that the government shouldn't be running healthcare, can we at least get a plan to improve the private insurance industry?

The President promised us something better. We're still waiting
If a well-regulated militia be the most natural defense of a free country, it ought certainly to be under the regulation and at the disposal of that body which is constituted the guardian of the national security.

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #39 on: September 17, 2019, 12:42:24 pm »
Of course the GOP should come up with a plan.   

The plan should be to preserve what works with the current private, employer-based system while addressing the problem of medical bankruptcies.   

One way to do that is to fund with general tax revenue a national program of stop-loss insurance.    Stop loss insurance is what larger employers who self-insure their employees' health coverage purchase to address their risk for "shock" claims.    They select an attachment point - say $50,000 -  and the employer shoulders all costs up to the attachment point, and stop loss insurance covers the rest.

A national program of stop loss insurance could benefit employers big and small, as well as those who must purchase health insurance in the individual market.    The premise is simple -  address on your own costs up to (say) $50,000.  Save for it,  purchase first dollar health insurance or any combination in between.   Any insurance will be affordable because it won't be responsible after the first $50,000 in claims for the year.    Individuals (and the employers who cover them)  will gain the security of cost certainty for liability stemming from a medical catastrophe and a host of products in the private marketplace will help folks finance that liability.    And for liability over the attachment point,  broad-based  taxpayer-funded insurance picks up the rest.   

This sort of approach is far less expensive than Medicare for All which encourages waste and inefficiency,   and preserves the incentives that spur medical innovation and allow Americans to get the care they need without the waiting and rationing that infect countries that fully socialize their medical coverage.   
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 12:46:29 pm by Jazzhead »
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,331
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #40 on: September 17, 2019, 01:41:26 pm »
left alone, the Private Insurance Industry on it's own cost too much and didn't cover many people with serious conditions.

If someone is of the mindset that the government shouldn't be running healthcare, can we at least get a plan to improve the private insurance industry?

The President promised us something better. We're still waiting

How would you know what would happen if the private insurance industry were left alone? Let's get the government truly out of the way and see what happens.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Applewood

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,361
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2019, 01:43:57 pm »
left alone, the Private Insurance Industry on it's own cost too much and didn't cover many people with serious conditions.

Well, for many of us it used to cost a lot less and covered a lot more till Obamacare came along. 

Quote
If someone is of the mindset that the government shouldn't be running healthcare, can we at least get a plan to improve the private insurance industry?

Funny thing is that the insurance companies thought they would be making big bucks if people were forced to get insurance under Obamacare.  Instead they are losing money, principally because they were forced to cover a whole bunch of high-risk subscribers and a number of lowlifes whose health problems are the result of bad decisions (e.g. alcoholism, drugs and so on).  Insurance carriers also cover things they didn't used to -- like sex changes.  So to make up for the losses, they saddled most of the rest of us with higher priced insurance that doesn't pay for the health care we need. 

No, thank you.  government has done more than enough to "help" the insurance industry too.

Quote
The President promised us something better. We're still waiting

Actually, the president can't do a whole lot besides maybe an executive order or two.  For something like this, it would be up to congress.  But this, like just about every campaign promise Republicans have been making since at least 2010, has been conveniently forgotten once these bums gained control of both houses of congress and the presidency.  Bottom line is the Republicans just aren't interested in the health care situation and while the Democrats may be, whatever they come up with will most likely make things worse. 

Offline kevindavis007

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,380
  • Gender: Male
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2019, 01:47:19 pm »
Actually I would be more poor cause I would have to pay higher taxes with MFA.
Join The Reagan Caucus: https://reagancaucus.org/

Offline Sanguine

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,986
  • Gender: Female
  • Ex-member
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #43 on: September 17, 2019, 01:49:41 pm »
Actually I would be more poor cause I would have to pay higher taxes with MFA.

And, you would get much poorer health care.

Offline LMAO

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,256
  • Gender: Male
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #44 on: September 17, 2019, 01:50:17 pm »
I have found that when asking a Medicare for All supporter to explain what’s really involved with the current Medicare system, i.e. reimbursements to hospitals and healthcare facilities, how recipients pay for it, ect , I get more  repeated talking points  than knowledge

But I am for the debate being presented in the public arena with both sides making their case. I am confident that people will reject Medicare for All, especially if it means giving up their private insurance. This is a program being pushed by people who have no idea how the healthcare industry functions and probably wouldn’t even know how to  run a basic rummage sale but  believe winning an election means they’re best able to plan people’s lives better than those people themselves
« Last Edit: September 17, 2019, 01:51:23 pm by LMAO »
I have little interest in streamlining government or in making it more efficient, for I mean to reduce its size. I do not undertake to promote welfare, for I propose to extend freedom. My aim is not to pass laws, but to repeal them.

Barry Goldwater

http://www.usdebtclock.org

My Avatar is my adult autistic son Tommy

Offline skeeter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,717
  • Gender: Male
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #45 on: September 17, 2019, 02:28:47 pm »
We're currently leaders in prescription drug prices and medical expenses :patriot:

And access to, innovation of and quality of care.

Cheap drugs aren't worth dry crap if you have to wait 6 months to see a doctor.

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 79,873
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #46 on: September 17, 2019, 02:34:46 pm »
left alone, the Private Insurance Industry on it's own cost too much and didn't cover many people with serious conditions.

If someone is of the mindset that the government shouldn't be running healthcare, can we at least get a plan to improve the private insurance industry?

The President promised us something better. We're still waiting

Thank God we have people willing to use government force to make those evil capitalist bastards knuckle under. *****rollingeyes*****

You aren't just on the wrong Forum, you are in the wrong Country.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline musiclady

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,682
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #47 on: September 17, 2019, 02:36:44 pm »
We're currently leaders in prescription drug prices and medical expenses :patriot:

Actually, it was when the government got involved in healthcare in the 1960's when healthcare expenses began to skyrocket.

The more the government is involved, the more expensive healthcare costs are.


It's good that you are on record as wanting inaffordable healthcare and years of waiting for critical life-saving procedures.

Thanks for representing the irrational, uncaring left on TBR, @OfTheCross .

It's good to see up close and personal how people who don't care actually think.......
Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline musiclady

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 22,682
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #48 on: September 17, 2019, 02:38:28 pm »
Thank God we have people willing to use government force to make those evil capitalist bastards knuckle under. *****rollingeyes*****

You aren't just on the wrong Forum, you are in the wrong Country.

He should go to England where he can't get decent healthcare and has to wait indefinitely for necessary surgeries.   *****rollingeyes*****

Character still matters.  It always matters.

I wear a mask as an exercise in liberty and love for others.  To see it as an infringement of liberty is to entirely miss the point.  Be kind.

"Sometimes I think the Church would be better off if we would call a moratorium on activity for about six weeks and just wait on God to see what He is waiting to do for us. That's what they did before Pentecost."   - A. W. Tozer

Use the time God is giving us to seek His will and feel His presence.

Offline Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 79,873
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Medicare for All Would Cut Poverty by Over 20 Percent
« Reply #49 on: September 17, 2019, 02:41:57 pm »
Actually, it was when the government got involved in healthcare in the 1960's when healthcare expenses began to skyrocket.

The more the government is involved, the more expensive healthcare costs are.


It's good that you are on record as wanting inaffordable healthcare and years of waiting for critical life-saving procedures.

Thanks for representing the irrational, uncaring left on TBR, @OfTheCross .

It's good to see up close and personal how people who don't care actually think.......

Not caring is a feature to these people, not a bug.  "We're disinterested, therefore more fair." 
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed: