Author Topic: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks  (Read 2616 times)

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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #25 on: September 15, 2019, 06:27:14 am »
DITTOS, except more like once a month right now...
 :beer:

Aww...it's been more than a month....
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #26 on: September 15, 2019, 07:03:13 am »
Nah. Perhaps as a political force, once Tump leaves us holding the bag...
But principle things ARE principle things after all. They are timeless. Conservatism in its true sense lives on.
Precisely. While Conservatism would be even more repressed, that would place principled Conservatives in the position of being the 'revolutionaries' (again). A political counter counter-culture movement is almost inevitable, anyway.
How many, no matter how much soy they are fed, no matter how dumbed down they are, will sit placidly while being subjugated? For how long? The writings of our founders may well become banned, but that only piques interest in the forbidden philosophy of those who founded the republic, especially among the young. Not learning was not the result of the Constitution being banned, it was the result of ham handed teachers making drudgery of a required topic, instead of properly infusing their students with appropriate passion for the marvelous framework and attention to detail that the Founders left to us. But ban it, and interest will return, especially as people learn just what those concepts are.

Since those who deem themselves as "liberators" want to do so by forcing their "liberation" on a significant segment of the population that really isn't naturally wired that way, a backlash is inevitable--the only question is one of when. The general feelings of being wronged by having Civil Rights and natural instincts suppressed by the snowflake culture of today will only provoke a greater desire to overcome that oppression.

The wheel will turn, those suppressed Rights won't go away, the visceral feelings of being wronged will not go away, and as long as those can be steered into overcoming repression and reestablishing balance without reprisal and creating the next cycle of oppression/rebellion/reprisal, there is hope, as thin as that may be.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #27 on: September 15, 2019, 07:51:45 am »
One thing usually missing here since before 2016, was recognition and discussion, of the shortcomings and weaknesses of "conservatism" as it had unfolded recently.

GHWB, Dole,  GWB, McCain, Romney had led "conservatism" and while the Tea Party burned for a time, it also fizzled fast.

There comes a time when "conservatives" ought to ask themselves, what THEY could have donedifferently, and quit just criticising everybody else.

But this is #nevertrump briefing room, above anything else, and seems to have a penchant for getting most things wrong.

--DJIA near records.

--Unemployent lowest for blacks, Hispanics, women.

--Better foreign relations

--Two Supreme Court Justice appointments; and over 150 other judges appointed

--Massive reductions of regulations

--Border Wall construction underway, despite objections by democrats and weak Republican

Quit playing victim, please. If you want to be in an echo chamber, there are plenty of them out there. If you want to talk, let's do that. Like it or not, we are where we are.

While Trump has done some good things, others just haven't been done (yet?). Waiting until after the commercial to see what's in the box is a bit too cliffhanger reality teevee for those of us watching.

Two things I don't agree with are the ethanol (renewal fuels) mandate being jacked (which mandates how much ethanol will end up in fuel, no matter how much or how little fuels is sold. That does not put a limit on the mix, but an amount that has to be blended. Not a way to have good fuel for most of us.

The bump stock ban has wording which is inaccurate from a mechanical standpoint, the stock does not change the rifle to a fully automatic firearm, only allows it to be operated as a semiautomatic firearm more efficiently. If you can pull the trigger fast, how fast is too fast? Do you have to turn in your finger?
Quote
Jerry Miculek also demonstrated the ability to fire five shots from a revolver on target with a S&W Model 64 ported barrel revolver in 0.57 seconds on September 25, 2003. This is slower than the record held by Ed McGivern of 0.45 seconds (first shot on 9/13/1932, reproduced 4 times on 12/8/1932). Originally recorded as "two-fifths of a second", the resolution of the timing equipment in 1932 was only 0.20 of a second, so the actual figure could have been anywhere between 0.40 and 0.45 seconds
source

Miculek's time amounts to a cyclic rate of fire of over 520 rounds per minute--from a revolver.
By contrast, the full auto battle rifle AK-47 has a cyclic rate of fire of 600 rounds per minute, and the M-16A1 700-950 rounds per minute. IOW he is firing nearly as fast as the most popular two machine guns in the world with a wheel gun.
Is he going to get banned, too?  It's bad law, punishes performance, and is an infringement on the Right.

At any rate, caving once on a matter of gun ownership with a ban is not the sort of action which gives gun owners any faith in this President's resolve to hold the RKBA sacrosanct in accordance with the Constitution. Even the Democrats/Socialists/Communists smell that blood in the water and are openly pushing to ban classes of firearms, not just from future sales, but from general ownership.

We know how it can look when the rifles are in one set of hands.
...and
The people pushing the Russian Collusion narrative and for the confiscation of firearms are from the same camp, people who insisted on sending one kid back to Castro (at gunpoint) but who whine at the thought of not allowing millions to invade. Maybe it was just because Elian was too young to vote.

As for the TEA party, the TEA party folks went home, job done, as the movement had elected a large crew who had promised to carry the ball.

Unfortunately, those entrusted with doing that work often lied on the stump. There was an outbreak of Beltway Fever even before they were sworn in. Unfortunately as well, complacency had set in, the die was cast, the battle was won in the minds of many who went back to their ordinary lives and quit paying attention.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #28 on: September 15, 2019, 08:43:04 am »
Aww...it's been more than a month....

Our core team is still meeting... Not much to do yet... More of a beer and BBQ thing just to keep us together. However, the last couple got a bit technical... planning for pre-planning kinda thing.

It won't start cranking hard for a few more months yet...

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #29 on: September 15, 2019, 03:49:00 pm »
Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
By Alexander Bolton - 09/13/19 06:00 AM EDT

 
Sen. Ted Cruz (R-Texas) on Thursday said if Republicans strike a deal with Democrats to require all firearms sales over the internet or at gun shows to go through background checks, they would demoralize their conservative base ahead of next year’s presidential election.

 

@Chosen Daughter

Somebody on the left coast needs to watch the AM political shows this morning and quote Cruz on his gun control bill.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #30 on: September 15, 2019, 03:50:30 pm »
Nah. Perhaps as a political force, once Tump leaves us holding the bag...
But principle things ARE principle things after all. They are timeless. Conservatism in its true sense lives on.

@roamer_1

What are YOUR thoughts on Teddy Boy Cruz's gun control bill?
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2019, 03:52:24 pm »
There's nothing quite like a condescending slam directed towards a group of people based on how you believe they might react to something that hasn't even happened yet.

Says quite a bit more about you than it does about them.

@Maj. Bill Martin

These loons will never give up their hatred of a man that came into THEIR political party and took the presidency away from one of their beloved "usual RINO suspects".

The more pro-American things that Trump does,the more they hate him.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2019, 03:54:17 pm »
One thing usually missing here since before 2016, was recognition and discussion, of the shortcomings and weaknesses of "conservatism" as it had unfolded recently.

GHWB, Dole,  GWB, McCain, Romney had led "conservatism" and while the Tea Party burned for a time, it also fizzled fast.

There comes a time when "conservatives" ought to ask themselves, what THEY could have donedifferently, and quit just criticising everybody else.

But this is #nevertrump briefing room, above anything else, and seems to have a penchant for getting most things wrong.

--DJIA near records.

--Unemployent lowest for blacks, Hispanics, women.

--Better foreign relations

--Two Supreme Court Justice appointments; and over 150 other judges appointed

--Massive reductions of regulations

--Border Wall construction underway, despite objections by democrats and weak Republican

@truth_seeker

You just compiled a list of WHY they hate him.

He makes Boy Jorge and the RINO Party look like the losers and liars they really are.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline roamer_1

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2019, 03:54:58 pm »
@roamer_1

What are YOUR thoughts on Teddy Boy Cruz's gun control bill?

@sneakypete

You'll see on the record here that my support of Cruz has been waning for some time now. A gun control bill of any kind will seal that deal, and move me directly into 'Oh Hell No'.

Too bad too. Cruz is throwing it all away for Tumpy the Wonder Clown.  **nononono*

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2019, 03:55:23 pm »
The TEA Party is alive and well, despite Turtle's best efforts.  I go to a meeting every other week.

 

@Cyber Liberty

What do you and the other attendee talk about?
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2019, 03:58:17 pm »
@Maj. Bill Martin

These loons will never give up their hatred of a man that came into THEIR political party and took the presidency away from one of their beloved "usual RINO suspects".

The more pro-American things that Trump does,the more they hate him.

It is not my political party @sneakypete . I, far more than others here, cannot be accused of supporting RINOs... and I do not hate Tumpy. Not in the least.
 

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #36 on: September 15, 2019, 03:59:52 pm »
Quote
I believe many people are open minded, about keeping firearms out of the hands of daangerous people.

That is what they say, after each incident. I don't know the definition of "red flag" and "background check" but it sure sounds to me, that most Americans will suport well thought out measures.

@truth_seeker

Fictional problem with very real negative consequences.

People with mental and emotional problems should NOT be free to even run around free,never mind buy or steal a weapon to  harm others with. Bring back the common sense laws that institutionalized people with mental and emotional problems,and this kind of crap will no longer BE a problem.

We don't NEED gun control laws to stop mass killings. We simply need to bring back the laws that lock up the mentally unstable.

And screw the freaking Communist ACLU and the armored car they rode in on.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2019, 04:01:03 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2019, 04:02:56 pm »
What Cruz gun control bill?  @sneakypete

@Sanguine

The one he was promoting on Teebee this morning. If I could remember the details I would have written them. Unfortunately my short-term memory has bitten the dust due to chemo,and I was doing a couple of other things when he started talking about it,and then the damn phone rang while I was watching.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2019, 04:03:14 pm »
@Chosen Daughter

Somebody on the left coast needs to watch the AM political shows this morning and quote Cruz on his gun control bill.

What Cruz gun control bill?  @sneakypete

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2019, 04:03:42 pm »
This is what I could find on the proposed Grassley/Cruz bill -- not sure this is what @sneakypete is talking about, but it is far from gun control as assumed:

Summary ofGrassley/Cruz Gun Substitute: ï‚·

Increases resources and tools for prosecuting criminals (Gun prosecutions have declined under President Obama and current proposed legislation does not address this issue)

National Project Exile Expansion.Provides $15 million per year for 3 years for more Assistant U.S. Attorneys and Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms agents. Applies to fiftee njurisdictions with highest violent crime rates and three tribal jurisdictions with highest rates.

 ï‚§Cruz Tas kForce.Task Force and $10 million per year for 5 years to prosecute felons and fugitives who try to get guns.Created task force and proposes funding of $10 million per year for five years to prosecute felons and fugitives who fail National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) –funded through the Asset Forfeiture Fund.oTools

:Criminalizes straw purchasing.In targeted,responsible way that doesn’t sweep in innocent conduct.Criminalizes trafficking.In a responsible way that doesn’t turn minor gun offenses into arms trafficking offenses

.ï‚·Increases resources for school safety(President Obama’s budget cut school safety funding)o Secure Our Schools grants.  Provides$30 million per year for 10 years under Title III funds.ï‚·Addresses mental health.

o Increases resources for mental health.

Reauthorizes Mentally Ill Offender Treatment and Crime Reduction Act.This provides $40 million per year for five years for mental health courts, crisis intervention teams, veteran treatment courts, police academy curricula, and transitional services in prison.

Allows Byrne and COPS grants to be used for mental health purposes.o

Gives states incentives to provide mental health records to NICS federal database.

Reauthorizes NICS Improvement Amendments Act grants at $20 million per year for 5 years, so states can implement systems to report these records.  Increases Byrne grant penalties for states’ failure to provide mental health records.

oClarifies which records must be submitted NICS.
« Last Edit: September 15, 2019, 04:04:51 pm by libertybele »
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #40 on: September 15, 2019, 04:07:05 pm »
This is what I could find on the proposed Grassley/Cruz bill -- not sure this is what @sneakypete is talking about, but it is far from gun control as assumed:

 

@libertybelle

CRUZ called it a gun control bill,and if it is not about gun control,what is the 105 million dollars in the bill supposed to accomplish?

And we ALL know that if the bill is passed,105 million dollars will be just a down-payment on the money that will be spent by the time it passes.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #41 on: September 15, 2019, 04:10:06 pm »
@Sanguine

The one he was promoting on Teebee this morning. If I could remember the details I would have written them. Unfortunately my short-term memory has bitten the dust due to chemo,and I was doing a couple of other things when he started talking about it,and then the damn phone rang while I was watching.

OK, here is what I think you are talking about.  Sounds fairly reasonable actually.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1173231953992011776

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #42 on: September 15, 2019, 04:12:42 pm »
From the 2013 bill:

Quote
...Cruz said...common-sense measures that will increase criminal prosecutions of felons who try to buy guns, criminalize straw purchasing and gun trafficking, and address mental health issues.”
 
....
 
The bill would increase the resources available to prosecutors for violators of gun laws, and creates a “Cruz Task Force” to prosecute those who fail criminal background checks. The task force is funded through an Asset Forfeiture Fund.
 
The bill criminalizes straw purchasing and trafficking...It also seeks to increase safety at schools, keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill, and increases accountability for prosecutions at the executive level by requiring the Department of Justice to submit reports to Congress.
 
The senators were particularly critical of the Obama administration’s record of prosecuting background check violations, saying it only took up a small portion of such cases.
 
The bill does not expand background checks, but rather “focuses on making the backgrounds system work better…by encouraging states to report mental health records,” Cruz said....

https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/294499-sens-grassley-and-cruz-present-alternative-gun-bill

Online corbe

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #43 on: September 15, 2019, 04:15:38 pm »
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No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #44 on: September 15, 2019, 04:18:08 pm »
Quit playing victim, please. If you want to be in an echo chamber, there are plenty of them out there. If you want to talk, let's do that. Like it or not, we are where we are.

While Trump has done some good things, others just haven't been done (yet?). Waiting until after the commercial to see what's in the box is a bit too cliffhanger reality teevee for those of us watching.

Two things I don't agree with are the ethanol (renewal fuels) mandate being jacked (which mandates how much ethanol will end up in fuel, no matter how much or how little fuels is sold. That does not put a limit on the mix, but an amount that has to be blended. Not a way to have good fuel for most of us.

The bump stock ban has wording which is inaccurate from a mechanical standpoint, the stock does not change the rifle to a fully automatic firearm, only allows it to be operated as a semiautomatic firearm more efficiently. If you can pull the trigger fast, how fast is too fast? Do you have to turn in your finger? source

Miculek's time amounts to a cyclic rate of fire of over 520 rounds per minute--from a revolver.
By contrast, the full auto battle rifle AK-47 has a cyclic rate of fire of 600 rounds per minute, and the M-16A1 700-950 rounds per minute. IOW he is firing nearly as fast as the most popular two machine guns in the world with a wheel gun.
Is he going to get banned, too?  It's bad law, punishes performance, and is an infringement on the Right.

At any rate, caving once on a matter of gun ownership with a ban is not the sort of action which gives gun owners any faith in this President's resolve to hold the RKBA sacrosanct in accordance with the Constitution. Even the Democrats/Socialists/Communists smell that blood in the water and are openly pushing to ban classes of firearms, not just from future sales, but from general ownership.

We know how it can look when the rifles are in one set of hands.
...and
The people pushing the Russian Collusion narrative and for the confiscation of firearms are from the same camp, people who insisted on sending one kid back to Castro (at gunpoint) but who whine at the thought of not allowing millions to invade. Maybe it was just because Elian was too young to vote.

As for the TEA party, the TEA party folks went home, job done, as the movement had elected a large crew who had promised to carry the ball.

Unfortunately, those entrusted with doing that work often lied on the stump. There was an outbreak of Beltway Fever even before they were sworn in. Unfortunately as well, complacency had set in, the die was cast, the battle was won in the minds of many who went back to their ordinary lives and quit paying attention.


« Last Edit: September 15, 2019, 04:37:32 pm by txradioguy »
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #45 on: September 15, 2019, 04:20:38 pm »
OK, here is what I think you are talking about.  Sounds fairly reasonable actually.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1173231953992011776

@Sanguine

Only because it is being compared to all the gun confiscation bills.

It's a shell game.

There is no such thing as a "GOOD"gun control bill.

 
« Last Edit: September 15, 2019, 04:21:31 pm by sneakypete »
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #46 on: September 15, 2019, 04:24:57 pm »
From the 2013 bill:

@Sanguine

Name ONE thing that is positive about the bill. No matter how you spin it,it is still about gun control with NO mention whatsoever about putting criminals in jail/prison,or insane people in mental institutions.

MY personal favorite "Once upon a time" line is "“focuses on making the backgrounds system work better…by encouraging states to report mental health records,” Cruz said...."

I LOVE the words "encouraging states".
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #47 on: September 15, 2019, 04:26:20 pm »
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@corbe

I'm not so sure that is fair to Cruz. I know and care nothing about his sexual orientation,but I do know she would have no trouble whatsoever pinning me.
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Online Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #48 on: September 15, 2019, 04:28:13 pm »
Quote
Ted Cruz: Congress 'absolutely' needs to do more on gun safety
Washington Times, Sep 15, 2019

Republican Sen. Ted Cruz supported the push for stronger background check legislation after the recent string of deadly shootings over the summer, but warned that Democrats’ plans would lead to an erosion of the Second Amendment.

“We absolutely need to do more. We need to strengthen background checks,” he said on ABC’s “This Week.” “We’ve seen too damn many of these [shootings] in the state of Texas.”

Democrats passed a partisan background checks bill earlier this year that would extend to private sales. It hasn’t made any headway in the Republican-controlled Senate despite the recent push by House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer.

Mr. Cruz slammed that particular option, warning that requiring background checks on private sales would pave the way for gun confiscation.

“The only way to enforce that is a federal gun registry and a gun registry is the step you need for gun confiscation,” he said. “The federal government should not be confiscating guns from law-abiding citizens.” 

[...]

 
Mr. Cruz floated his 2013 bill with Sen. Chuck Grassley, which was reintroduced in May, as an alternative approach. The bill focuses on shoring up the National Instant Criminal Background Check System with stronger requirements for agencies.


https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/sep/15/ted-cruz-congress-absolutely-needs-do-more-gun-saf/


Quote
Sens. Grassley and Cruz roll out alternative gun control bill
The Hill, Apr 17, 2013

[...]

The bill would increase the resources available to prosecutors for violators of gun laws, and creates a “Cruz Task Force” to prosecute those who fail criminal background checks. The task force is funded through an Asset Forfeiture Fund.
 
The bill criminalizes straw purchasing and trafficking, measures Grassley supported in committee hearings on the gun control bill that will go before the Senate later this month. It also seeks to increase safety at schools, keep guns out of the hands of the mentally ill, and increases accountability for prosecutions at the executive level by requiring the Department of Justice to submit reports to Congress.
 
The senators were particularly critical of the Obama administration’s record of prosecuting background check violations, saying it only took up a small portion of such cases.

The bill does not expand background checks, but rather “focuses on making the backgrounds system work better…by encouraging states to report mental health records,” Cruz said.

The National Rifle Association said it supports the bill.

More:  https://thehill.com/homenews/senate/294499-sens-grassley-and-cruz-present-alternative-gun-bill

Online Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Conservatives offer stark warning to Trump, GOP on background checks
« Reply #49 on: September 15, 2019, 04:36:39 pm »
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