Poll

In your opinion Was Trump's decision to Fire Bolton Good or Bad?

Good
10 (25.6%)
Bad
19 (48.7%)
It's his perogative (Jury still out option)
10 (25.6%)

Total Members Voted: 39

Voting closed: September 15, 2019, 06:33:31 pm

Author Topic: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!  (Read 5286 times)

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Offline txradioguy

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #100 on: September 10, 2019, 07:33:32 pm »
Could the Taliban be believed if they said they "surrender?"

No more than we could believe Saddam and his generals in 1991.

They need to be wiped from the face of the earth.  If any one of them is left hiding in a cave...maybe we dictate our terms of surrender then.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #101 on: September 10, 2019, 07:37:07 pm »
The ONLY thing we should be negotiating with the Taliban on is their unconditional surrender.  Anything less than that is a slap to the face of those of us that deployed there and to those that died there.

I fully respect that and I am fully grateful for that.

Mattis says "trust then verify." 

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/james-mattis-on-face-the-nation-ex-defense-secretary-says-trump-should-verify-then-trust-in-talks-with-taliban/

Offline txradioguy

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #102 on: September 10, 2019, 07:38:51 pm »
I fully respect that and I am fully grateful for that.

Mattis says "trust then verify." 

https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/james-mattis-on-face-the-nation-ex-defense-secretary-says-trump-should-verify-then-trust-in-talks-with-taliban/

He clearly learned that from Reagan.  It's always a good rule of thumb.
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Offline kevindavis007

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #103 on: September 10, 2019, 07:40:55 pm »
Come on, man.  You can't throw around "isolationism" and "cut and run" when referring to a freaking war we've been fighting for EIGHTEEN YEARS.

Get out now and carpet bomb the territory on the way home.  Turn it to rubble; glass if we can find the backing in Congress.


We finsih the job we started regardless how it is done. Also, don't make peace with the Taliban who gave sanctuary Bin Landen.
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Offline TomSea

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #104 on: September 10, 2019, 07:41:13 pm »
The problem is, they really do seem to have an endless supply of Jihadists

I posted that the other day, Pompeo said 1,000 Taliban killed in the past ten days. That was on one of the Sunday shows, with Chris Wallace I believe

So, we will see, we have stepped up our efforts since the attack.

If we are killing that many, lots to think about.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 07:42:30 pm by TomSea »

Offline Sanguine

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #105 on: September 10, 2019, 07:41:21 pm »
Thats the problem. How do you 'finish a job' empires have been unsuccessfully trying to finish for centuries? Afghanistan isn't a nation - its a location in a god forsaken desert filled with prehistoric tribes who live to fight.

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Offline txradioguy

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #106 on: September 10, 2019, 07:42:02 pm »

We finsih the job we started regardless how it is done. Also, don't make peace with the Taliban who gave sanctuary Bin Landen.

Exactly
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #107 on: September 10, 2019, 07:49:13 pm »
Exactly

Wasn't our original objective to punish them for their actions leading to 9-11, and prevent someone like Al Qaeda from having another base to launch operations from?  How are we doing, defined that way?
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Offline jpsb

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #108 on: September 10, 2019, 07:55:02 pm »
Excellent, another Bush neocon gone, happy days are here again.

Offline TomSea

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #109 on: September 10, 2019, 07:55:43 pm »
Wasn't our original objective to punish them for their actions leading to 9-11, and prevent someone like Al Qaeda from having another base to launch operations from?  How are we doing, defined that way?

Mattis said in the above interview, they have refused to break with al Qaeda for that matter, that's a sticking point

Still, I can see where anyone who uses suicide bombs can not be trusted though they could say, we use bombs too.

Just saying how people think.

I already said we are in Germany, Japan, Korea.

The idea of a somewhat permanent presence doesn't bother me that much, we've definitely got it in Iraq, for the time being.

Offline jpsb

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #110 on: September 10, 2019, 08:04:57 pm »
Paleocoms say Neocons are not conservatives.   :shrug:

They are not, neocons left the D party because D's turned into the anti-war party after Nam. Neocons are really warmongering Democrats that took over the GOP until Trump FINALLY bested them.

Offline Sighlass

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #111 on: September 10, 2019, 08:25:43 pm »
I guess it has been pointed out upthread somewhere, that Bolton say he resigned, and was not "fired"...

Edit: Ok see this was already be discussed in the posts (replies in around the 40s)

« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 08:30:09 pm by Sighlass »
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Offline TomSea

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #112 on: September 10, 2019, 08:29:52 pm »
Quote
Jennifer Jacobs
@JenniferJJacobs
Lots of names being floated by Trump associates as possible Bolton replacements, including @robertcobrien
, who is Trump’s envoy for hostage affairs, and Brian Hook, Pompeo’s senior policy adviser, I’m told.
3:01 PM · Sep 10, 2019·Twitter for iPhone


https://twitter.com/JenniferJJacobs/status/1171514115887468544

Brian Hook: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_H._Hook

He's been in the news a bit lately, though, I forget a bit about what.

No endorsement on this article, I just saw it:

Hook’s Despicable Yemen Propaganda from The American Conservative which I don't care for in general.
Quote

Blaming Iran for the harm done to Yemen by the U.S.-backed Saudi coalition is the administration’s most sickening rhetorical maneuver, and it is also one of their most common. It is profoundly dishonest. The administration seeks to pin the catastrophe in Yemen on a government that has virtually nothing to do with it while letting the genuinely guilty parties off the hook.

I've heard this pitch before, I don't really believe it. You know, Houthi rebels are firing off missiles at Saudi Arabia all the time? Where does this author think they get them?? I'd assume Iran.  That seems pretty obvious, not rocket science, who else?

That said, I'm certainly not excusing any Saudi actions. And if it is the case, they are wrong, we are wrong to supply them.

But as I said, bottom line, I don't know.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 08:30:53 pm by TomSea »

Offline TomSea

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #113 on: September 10, 2019, 08:36:32 pm »
Hook and O'Brien do not appear to be radical departures from Bolton. I'm sure there are a number of others that will be considered.

I'm sorry to see Bolton leave but as for me, I expected this at  one time or the other.

Offline TomSea

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #114 on: September 10, 2019, 08:43:59 pm »
Quote
Bolton Likely Axed Over Taliban Deal, Leaks
By Barbara Boland • September 10, 2019

It could be that a tense disagreement over the now-dead deal with the Taliban was the last straw for Trump, who said he fired his National Security Advisor John Bolton today. The firing followed a “bitter argument last night” Bolton said he had with Trump over the president’s plan to host Taliban leaders at Camp David three days before the 9/11 anniversary, sources report.

“I informed John Bolton last night that his services are no longer needed at the White House. I disagreed strongly with many of his suggestions, as did others in the Administration, and therefore I asked John for his resignation, which was given to me this morning,” Trump tweeted late this morning. “I thank John very much for his service. I will be naming a new National Security Advisor next week.”

...

But Bolton’s version of events doesn’t make much sense: about an hour before Trump’s tweet, the White House had informed the press that Bolton would be briefing reporters, along with Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and Treasury Secretary Steve Mnuchin, and  Bolton even led a meeting this morning.

Read more at: https://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/bolton-likely-axed-over-taliban-deal-leaks/

I'll study this article some.

 :pop41:

Article says Bolton was a key architect of the war in Iraq. That per most sources I think is a damnable lie, I think Colin Powell, these others kept him out of that loop. Sure, Bolton supported the invasion.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 08:49:34 pm by TomSea »

Offline txradioguy

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #115 on: September 10, 2019, 09:04:04 pm »
Wasn't our original objective to punish them for their actions leading to 9-11, and prevent someone like Al Qaeda from having another base to launch operations from?  How are we doing, defined that way?

Yes that was the objective.  Run them out of Afghanistan and eliminate any training camps in the ME where we found them.

The problem is kinda like what we ran into in Korea in 1951...we started an offensive that ended up pushing the NORKS almost entirely off the peninsula and we ran into a problem...the Chinese border.  MacArthur wanted to chase them into China if necessary...Truman and others said no...no coalition forces north of the Yalu river.  Mac's hands were tied in that aspect and it's part (that and his enormous ego) of what led him to get fired and sent home.

We chased the Taliban...had them on the run Tora Bora we just missed by hours dropping a MOAB on Bin Laden...chased them into Pakistan where again...we were told we couldn't go to pursue the enemy.  That we had to stop and not go into the Wazristan Khyber Pakhtunkhwa province of Pakistan.  And because of that the Taliban lived to fight another decade.

In both instances IMHO...the military leaders on the ground had the initiative they had the forces and they had the enemy on the run...and both times politicians stopped their advance and the enemy was allowed to escape and continue to fight and ultimately fight us to a draw.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #116 on: September 10, 2019, 09:04:36 pm »

We finsih the job we started regardless how it is done.

We did finish the job @kevindavis … and  based on why we went in, we should have exited Afghanistan May 2, 2011.  Everything after this date has been bullshit in its purest form. 

We have left MORE than enough American blood, body parts and treasure in that hell hole.  MORE than enough.  Let's give our young patriots a chance to reach 30 with two arms and two legs.  I don't think this is asking too much.

Offline roamer_1

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #117 on: September 10, 2019, 09:12:35 pm »
In both instances IMHO...the military leaders on the ground had the initiative they had the forces and they had the enemy on the run...and both times politicians stopped their advance and the enemy was allowed to escape and continue to fight and ultimately fight us to a draw.

That's right. If the sombiches have the balls to let the dogs out, the least they could do is let em off the chain. Always and ever the case. It ain't my thing, but I feel ya.  You don't start it, but if you got it to do, you damn well finish it... Till all they're doin is twitchin.  Redneck 101.

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #118 on: September 10, 2019, 09:16:36 pm »


In both instances IMHO...the military leaders on the ground had the initiative they had the forces and they had the enemy on the run...and both times politicians stopped their advance and the enemy was allowed to escape and continue to fight and ultimately fight us to a draw.

Pretty much been the case since the Korean war and it SUCKS a big one!
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #119 on: September 10, 2019, 09:20:00 pm »
That's right. If the sombiches have the balls to let the dogs out, the least they could do is let em off the chain. Always and ever the case. It ain't my thing, but I feel ya.  You don't start it, but if you got it to do, you damn well finish it... Till all they're doin is twitchin.  Redneck 101.

We did the same thing in Iraq in 1991.  We were about to completely surround the enemy that was in a full retreat...and politics prevented us from completely destroying Saddam and allowing him to stay in power for another 12 years.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline txradioguy

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #120 on: September 10, 2019, 09:21:11 pm »
Pretty much been the case since the Korean war and it SUCKS a big one!

It does suck.  It is a strategy the enemy studies...they know if they can get us into a war of attrition we'll come the table to talk "peace".
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline txradioguy

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #121 on: September 10, 2019, 09:32:09 pm »

Jonathan Karl
@jonkarl
·
3h
Well this is interesting ...

John Bolton was in the Situation Room this morning, chairing the National Security Council’s Principals Committee meeting.
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #122 on: September 10, 2019, 09:33:16 pm »
We did the same thing in Iraq in 1991.  We were about to completely surround the enemy that was in a full retreat...and politics prevented us from completely destroying Saddam and allowing him to stay in power for another 12 years.

Yeah, I remember... Shut you guys off and let em  get back to Bagdad and blend in. Dumbest thing ever.

Offline catfish1957

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #123 on: September 10, 2019, 09:37:27 pm »
Yeah, I remember... Shut you guys off and let em  get back to Bagdad and blend in. Dumbest thing ever.

Many of us back in '16 beleived that Trump would make a substantial "left" shift after election.  The transformation is well underway now.
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Offline catfish1957

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Re: BREAKING...John Bolton Fired!
« Reply #124 on: September 10, 2019, 09:46:10 pm »
I believe Bolton when he said he offered to resign last night and Trump said, We'll talk tomorrow...

Trump should have accepted his resignation then but instead he chose to publicly embarrass/insult Bolton..figures

I agree.

As one GOP primary opponent eloquently stated in 2016....... 
"Donald Trump has a tenuous realtionship with the truth."

Ted Cruz   4 Mar 2016
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