Author Topic: Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right  (Read 3052 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Elderberry

  • TBR Contributor
  • *****
  • Posts: 24,497
Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right
« on: September 09, 2019, 09:29:45 pm »
Daily Herald by RICH LOWRY Sep 7, 2019

The fastest way to trend on Twitter, and not in a good way, is to say that the right to bear arms is a God-given right.

Texas state Rep. Matt Schaefer established this beyond a doubt in a Twitter thread in the aftermath of the West Texas shooting spree. He said that he wouldn’t use “the evil acts of a handful of people to diminish the God-given rights of my fellow Texans.”

Progressives were aghast, and when actress Alyssa Milano objected, Texas Sen. Ted Cruz jumped in to support Schaefer’s argument (in less bombastic terms).

The basic proposition isn’t hard to defend, and indeed it is written into our fundamental documents. This doesn’t mean that God wants you to own an AR-15, or that every jot and tittle of our current gun regime is divinely mandated. Far from it. Yet there is a natural right to self-defense, and gun ownership is inherently connected to that right in a modern society.

More: https://www.heraldextra.com/news/opinion/national-editorials/lowry-yes-gun-ownership-is-a-god-given-right/article_51b48b86-ec8d-56a4-8e00-7f9ab090749d.html

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,223
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2019, 02:01:48 am »
Maybe the leftists would approve of the RKBA if the right was Flying Spaghetti Monster-given?
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,773
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2019, 05:26:37 am »
In the God-given Right to self-defense, there is no 'bag limit' for those who are attacking. Therefore, there should be no limit on the capacity for defense. An AR-15 will suit most, in most situations. If we (collectively) have used firearms of similar design and of the same caliber to defend our country, we should be able to use them to defend ourselves, families, and communities. 
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2019, 02:41:53 pm »
Luke 11:21 “When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own mansion, his property is safe

Psalm 144:1 “Praise the Lord, who is my rock. He trains my hands for war and gives my fingers skill for battle

Luke 22:35-37 “Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you out to preach the Good News and you did not have money, a traveler’s bag, or an extra pair of sandals, did you need anything?” “No,” they replied. “But now,” he said, “take your money and a traveler’s bag. And if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one! For the time has come for this prophecy about me to be fulfilled: ‘He was counted among the rebels. Yes, everything written about me by the prophets will come true.”
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline verga

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,713
  • Gender: Male
Re: Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2019, 02:47:47 pm »
Luke 11:21 “When a strong man, fully armed, guards his own mansion, his property is safe

Psalm 144:1 “Praise the Lord, who is my rock. He trains my hands for war and gives my fingers skill for battle

Luke 22:35-37 “Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you out to preach the Good News and you did not have money, a traveler’s bag, or an extra pair of sandals, did you need anything?” “No,” they replied. “But now,” he said, “take your money and a traveler’s bag. And if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one! For the time has come for this prophecy about me to be fulfilled: ‘He was counted among the rebels. Yes, everything written about me by the prophets will come true.”
Great quotes thank you, Just read Luke 22 this morning.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,589
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2019, 02:54:11 pm »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2019, 02:59:21 pm »
Great quotes thank you, Just read Luke 22 this morning.

 :beer:
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2019, 03:00:50 pm »
Yet there is a natural right to self-defense, and gun ownership is inherently connected to that right in a modern society.


Correct.  But what is misunderstood is whether the 2A secures that right for you and me as an individual.   It doesn't.   The Heller decision does.   And that decision exists as the result of a fragile 5 -4 SCOTUS majority.   It will not be difficult for a different SCOTUS,  perhaps as early as during the term  of the next Democratic President,  to overturn Heller and adopt a view of the 2A as a collective right,  subject to the whim of the several States.   
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline Smokin Joe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,773
  • I was a "conspiracy theorist". Now I'm just right.
Re: Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2019, 03:05:03 pm »
Correct.  But what is misunderstood is whether the 2A secures that right for you and me as an individual.   It doesn't.   The Heller decision does.   And that decision exists as the result of a fragile 5 -4 SCOTUS majority.   It will not be difficult for a different SCOTUS,  perhaps as early as during the term  of the next Democratic President,  to overturn Heller and adopt a view of the 2A as a collective right,  subject to the whim of the several States.
It isn't a question of securing the Right FOR me, it is there to secure the Right AGAINST Government.

The Amendment does not limit the Right of the People, but the actions of Government.
Wave your SCOTUS all you want, the Government does not grant the Right.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2019, 03:05:19 pm »
Correct.  But what is misunderstood is whether the 2A secures that right for you and me as an individual.   It doesn't.   The Heller decision does.   

I'm in genuine amazement at times how you can be so consistently wrong on the subject.  You've been shown repeatedly where your thinking on this is incorrect or you're jsut blatantly spouting a falsehood and yet here you are...continuing to completely misrepresent the 2nd Amendment and what the Heller decision actually stated and did.

Are you running under the assumption that if you tell a lie often enough it becomes the truth?
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline skeeter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 26,717
  • Gender: Male
Re: Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2019, 03:08:37 pm »
It isn't a question of securing the Right FOR me, it is there to secure the Right AGAINST Government.

The Amendment does not limit the Right of the People, but the actions of Government.
Wave your SCOTUS all you want, the Government does not grant the Right.

A 'negative charter of liberties' is how a statist views the Constitution - enumerating things the government cannot do. Incidentally thats exactly how Obama described it.

Offline verga

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,713
  • Gender: Male
Re: Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2019, 03:11:16 pm »
Correct.  But what is misunderstood is whether the 2A secures that right for you and me as an individual.   It doesn't.   The Heller decision does.   And that decision exists as the result of a fragile 5 -4 SCOTUS majority.   It will not be difficult for a different SCOTUS,  perhaps as early as during the term  of the next Democratic President,  to overturn Heller and adopt a view of the 2A as a collective right,  subject to the whim of the several States.
How obtuse are you, seriously. The Heller affirms what was ALREADY KNOWN>>>THAT IT IS A GOD GIVEN RIGHT.  If you can't get that through your over thick skull stop posting. We are getting of correcting your ignorance.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

Offline Victoria33

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7,457
  • Gender: Female
Re: Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2019, 03:23:27 pm »
Bookmark

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Re: Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right
« Reply #14 on: September 10, 2019, 03:34:48 pm »
How obtuse are you, seriously. The Heller affirms what was ALREADY KNOWN>>>THAT IT IS A GOD GIVEN RIGHT.  If you can't get that through your over thick skull stop posting. We are getting of correcting your ignorance.

I do not dispute that the right of individual self-defense is one of a number of natural rights (the term I prefer to "God-given", but it means the same thing).   The question is whether the Constitution secures that right for you and me.   Hiss and piss and moan all you want,  but it is the Heller decision that reads the 2A as securing that right against government encroachment.  But the Heller decision is fragile, and there is an alternative reading - which the SCOTUS adhered to for most of the 20th century based on its plain language - that the 2A concerns itself with protecting the states' collective right to maintain their militias.   Under that view,  your individual RKBA may be a natural right, but its protection by the Constitution is not secured. 

The individual RKBA is secured by means of a 5-4 SCOTUS ruling, just as are the natural rights to privacy and self-determination.

You would be well advised to check your arrogance and condescension and realize just how fragile your precious right really is.   

It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,223
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2019, 03:39:36 pm »
You would be well advised to check your arrogance and condescension and realize just how fragile your precious right really is.

All we have to do is reduce the "right" to a Statute to make it easier for Leftists to simply wipe it out with a District Court level decision.

I find it interesting you refer to it as "your precious right," and not "our precious right."
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 03:40:43 pm by Cyber Liberty »
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline andy58-in-nh

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 9,760
  • Gender: Male
Re: Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2019, 04:41:18 pm »
Neither the Constitution nor the Supreme Court are empowered to confer any rights of self-defense on American citizens.

The right of self-defense exists as a natural condition, one that the laws of nations either recognize or else restrict or deny in defiance of natural law. Heller only explicitly recognized what the 2nd Amendment, specifically in its use of 18th century common law terminology, actually intended to convey. 

Much confusion has arisen about the placement of commas in the text of the Amendment, and also about the meaning of the term "militia" in the prefatory clause. As Justice Scalia made clear in his opinion, one must always look to common usage, legislative records, contemporaneous historical documentation and plain meaning in any effort to determine what outcome was intended in the adoption of a law.

In this case, all available historical sources point to the same outcome: Congress intended by the Bill of Rights to rectify a vital omission from the original Constitution: an explicit recognition of the individual liberties of United States citizens. These freedoms were in no way created, authorized or adopted by the first 10 Amendments - they were recognized as pre-existing, individual, and in the case of the 2nd Amendment, necessary to the security of a free state.     

There is also no reasonable argument about the meaning of the words "shall not be infringed", all protestations to the contrary. The word "infringe" means the same thing in the 21st century as it did in the 18th and 19th: undermine, erode, diminish, weaken, impair, damage, compromise. And the words "shall not" could not be any more Biblical in their conclusiveness. 

My guns belong to me. They protect my family and my property. I will not compromise on my rights because some people are frightened by the wrong things.
"The most terrifying force of death, comes from the hands of Men who wanted to be left Alone. They try, so very hard, to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love. They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it. They know, that the moment they fight back, their lives as they have lived them, are over. -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2019, 04:47:22 pm »
   The question is whether the Constitution secures that right for you and me.

There is no question...it does secure that right for you and me...otherwise known as "the people". 



Quote
but it is the Heller decision that reads the 2A as securing that right against government encroachment.
 

Wrong...no matter how many times you repeat that you're wrong.  It reaffirmed what's written in the Second Amendment.

Quote
But the Heller decision is fragile, and there is an alternative reading - which the SCOTUS adhered to for most of the 20th century based on its plain language - that the 2A concerns itself with protecting the states' collective right to maintain their militias.   Under that view,  your individual RKBA may be a natural right, but its protection by the Constitution is not secured.


Blatant falsehood.  Why do you insist on being so dishonest about Heller and the Second Amendment?

Quote
The individual RKBA is secured by means of a 5-4 SCOTUS ruling, just as are the natural rights to privacy and self-determination.


Wrong.

Quote
You would be well advised to check your arrogance and condescension and realize just how fragile your precious right really is.

You're one of the most arrogant people on this board.  Take your own advice.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline txradioguy

  • Propaganda NCOIC
  • Moderator
  • *****
  • Posts: 23,534
  • Gender: Male
  • Rule #39
Re: Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2019, 04:49:41 pm »
All we have to do is reduce the "right" to a Statute to make it easier for Leftists to simply wipe it out with a District Court level decision.

@Cyber Liberty That's what he's hoping for despite his protestations to the contrary.

Quote
I find it interesting you refer to it as "your precious right," and not "our precious right."

That's because he's a typical big city Progressive.  He's never fired a gun..never held a gun...doesn't know anyone that owns a gun and doesn't understand why anyone would want to own a gun much less several guns.

It's not precious to him because it doesn't matter to him. 
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,826
Re: Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2019, 04:55:32 pm »
I do not dispute that the right of individual self-defense is one of a number of natural rights (the term I prefer to "God-given", but it means the same thing).   

No it does not. Nature does not have a higher jurisdiction. God does.


Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,826
Re: Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2019, 04:57:41 pm »
Neither the Constitution nor the Supreme Court are empowered to confer any rights of self-defense on American citizens at all.


Fixed.  :beer:

Offline thackney

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 12,267
  • Gender: Male
Re: Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2019, 05:07:59 pm »
Life is fragile, handle with prayer

Online Cyber Liberty

  • Coffee! Donuts! Kittens!
  • Administrator
  • ******
  • Posts: 80,223
  • Gender: Male
  • 🌵🌵🌵
Re: Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right
« Reply #22 on: September 10, 2019, 05:08:12 pm »
@Cyber Liberty That's what he's hoping for despite his protestations to the contrary.

That's because he's a typical big city Progressive.  He's never fired a gun..never held a gun...doesn't know anyone that owns a gun and doesn't understand why anyone would want to own a gun much less several guns.

It's not precious to him because it doesn't matter to him.

He's certainly setting himself apart from those he's arguing with...converting it into a "superior me vs Troglodyte you" discussion.  This is such a shocking surprise.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,589
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Re: Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right
« Reply #23 on: September 10, 2019, 05:26:30 pm »
Neither the Constitution nor the Supreme Court are empowered to confer any rights of self-defense on American citizens.

The right of self-defense exists as a natural condition, one that the laws of nations either recognize or else restrict or deny in defiance of natural law. Heller only explicitly recognized what the 2nd Amendment, specifically in its use of 18th century common law terminology, actually intended to convey. 

Much confusion has arisen about the placement of commas in the text of the Amendment, and also about the meaning of the term "militia" in the prefatory clause. As Justice Scalia made clear in his opinion, one must always look to common usage, legislative records, contemporaneous historical documentation and plain meaning in any effort to determine what outcome was intended in the adoption of a law.

In this case, all available historical sources point to the same outcome: Congress intended by the Bill of Rights to rectify a vital omission from the original Constitution: an explicit recognition of the individual liberties of United States citizens. These freedoms were in no way created, authorized or adopted by the first 10 Amendments - they were recognized as pre-existing, individual, and in the case of the 2nd Amendment, necessary to the security of a free state.     

There is also no reasonable argument about the meaning of the words "shall not be infringed", all protestations to the contrary. The word "infringe" means the same thing in the 21st century as it did in the 18th and 19th: undermine, erode, diminish, weaken, impair, damage, compromise. And the words "shall not" could not be any more Biblical in their conclusiveness. 

My guns belong to me. They protect my family and my property. I will not compromise on my rights because some people are frightened by the wrong things.

 :yowsa: pointing-up  The history could not be any more clear.

As Sir William Blackstone and St. Geroge Tucker both affirm.

18th and 19th-Century Commentary on the Right to Keep and Bear Arms

@EdJames
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 07:56:53 pm by Bigun »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online roamer_1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 43,826
Re: Yes, gun ownership is a God-given right
« Reply #24 on: September 10, 2019, 06:09:23 pm »
Right to vote?

Nope. Protects the right of self-governance which is inherent. See DoI, and why governments are raised among men.

Government is to protect the rights that are God-given. It conveys no rights at all.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 06:10:31 pm by roamer_1 »