Author Topic: Sanford announces challenge to Trump  (Read 2937 times)

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Offline edpc

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #50 on: September 10, 2019, 01:18:11 PM »
What I posted, that your reply was to, was closer to a vaudeville act than to a serious comment.   :tongue2:


I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline XenaLee

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #51 on: September 10, 2019, 01:22:28 PM »
Our friend does that to set himself up as being morally above the fray.  It's more about preening than it is about policy.

I suspect that it also has a lot to do with that ROLCON factor.   :smokin:
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #52 on: September 10, 2019, 01:25:45 PM »
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
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Offline verga

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #53 on: September 10, 2019, 01:40:12 PM »
I suspect that it also has a lot to do with that ROLCON factor.   :smokin:
Okay I'll bite, what is the ROLCON factor
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Offline catfish1957

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #54 on: September 10, 2019, 01:48:20 PM »
So be specific, what lies are you referring to? To be clear, simply being wrong or unable to accomplish a campaign goal is not a lie. I honestly have no idea what "lies" you are talking about.

Geez, just yesterday he claimed he had a 90% approval rqting among GOP voters.  A Bald Faced Lie!!!!
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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #55 on: September 10, 2019, 01:50:33 PM »
@Mesaclone

Honestly, as many good things as there are about Atlas Shrugged, I've often though it sends an absolutely terrible political message.  It supports the myth that the best path to victory is basically just withdrawing so the bad guys "win", letting them enact destructive policies and destroy the country, and then rebuilding from the wreckage.  That's what Galt and the rest of them advocated.  It gives moral sanction, even moral plaudits, to those who advocate losing elections because your candidate is insufficiently pure.

You're making the Hank Rearden argument, though given our situation, and our context, I'd agree that's the right approach.

Correct...good breakdown. Unintentionally I WAS making the Hank Rearden argument...thanks for pointing that out. As for the "withdraw and let it collapse" Galt approach...you are right that all too many conservatives think that is actually a solution to the problem we face. Whilst that may work in a novel, in  reality society would have ultimately forced its way into the Galtian mountain refuge and crushed its freedom and capitalism. Socialists do not brook defiance...nor allow refuges of free thought/markets to exist.

If we don't defeat them now, they will be coming for all of us in time and there will be no refuge.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #56 on: September 10, 2019, 02:37:05 PM »
Okay I'll bite, what is the ROLCON factor

This could be it...

ROLCON:  ROLeplay as CONservatives

https://www.abbreviations.com/ROLCON
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
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Offline roamer_1

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #57 on: September 10, 2019, 02:49:11 PM »
the president is not supposed to be a vaudeville act.

IKR???

 :beer:

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #58 on: September 10, 2019, 02:53:10 PM »
Geez, just yesterday he claimed he had a 90% approval rqting among GOP voters.  A Bald Faced Lie!!!!

GOP approval for President Trump:
Gallup July 1-12   90%
Gallup June 19-30   90%
Gallup Feb-May     87-91%

This week is was at 88% which is well within the margin of error for a 90% approval rate...Trump's high approval within the GOP on Gallup has been incredibly consistent at or near that 90% rate.

If you're looking for a liar you may want to find a mirror.

Just another example of how NeverTrumpism is born of ignorance...and a willingness to buy into false media narratives. Wake up.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 02:57:24 PM by Mesaclone »

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #59 on: September 10, 2019, 02:57:48 PM »
Our friend does that to set himself up as being morally above the fray.  It's more about preening than it is about policy.

There's a lot of that going on here.
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Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #60 on: September 10, 2019, 02:58:58 PM »

He’s made way too many other malapropisms to think this was a joke. Besides, the president is not supposed to be a vaudeville act.

And Conservatives are supposed to be too smart to fall for that kind of media narrative...yet you seem to have "hooked, lined and sinkered" it.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #61 on: September 10, 2019, 02:59:54 PM »
There's a lot of that going on here.

I'm probably guilty of that sometimes myself.   :whistle:
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #62 on: September 10, 2019, 03:05:52 PM »
@Jazzhead Do you honestly believe that Sanford has a better chance of winning the Presidency than does Trump? 

Putting aside the obvious difficulty of securing the nomination,  yes,  I believe that Sanford has a better chance of retaining the White House against the current crop of Dems running on their platform of TDS and socialism.   The reason is simple - the best way to defeat the socialist tide is to hone the kind of effective message that cannot now be heard above the media's obsession with Trump-the-mad-king.   

 Do you have issues with Sanford's conservative credentials, or are you suggesting that a conservative has no chance of winning and we instead need a big-government populist/demagogue?   
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Offline aligncare

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #63 on: September 10, 2019, 03:11:29 PM »
@Mesaclone

“...and a willingness to buy into false media narratives”

That part is astounding to me.

For decades conservatives and Republicans complained that the media was on the Democrats side of every issue. We were told reporters were just “reporting the facts,”Most people agree with the New York Times editorials,” “journalists are unbiased observers,” “It’s just your imagination.”

Along comes Trump—whom they hate—and off these NeverTrumpers go chasing every red-dot laser the media points. Fools.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #64 on: September 10, 2019, 03:20:06 PM »
I'm probably guilty of that sometimes myself.   :whistle:

Not that I've ever noticed. 
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." – George Mason, Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 1788

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Offline Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #65 on: September 10, 2019, 03:22:58 PM »
Who knew the path to the Presidency runs down a path on the Appalachian trail with a naked lady?

Naked?

Offline EdJames

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #66 on: September 10, 2019, 03:27:15 PM »

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #67 on: September 10, 2019, 03:35:42 PM »

 Do you have issues with Sanford's conservative credentials, or are you suggesting that a conservative has no chance of winning and we instead need a big-government populist/demagogue?   

First, we don't have a "mad King" in the White House...that's a Leftist media meme, not reality.

Second, we already have a President governing with conservative policies...at least conservative in the Reagan sense if not the theoretical purity that some NT's would hold him to.

Finally, this isn't about Sanford's credentials...the man has absolutely zero chance of ever winning a primary or becoming president. Zero. So the ONLY thing his campaign can do is undermine the ONE man who DOES have a chance to defeat the Left in this election.



Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #68 on: September 10, 2019, 03:36:58 PM »
Naked?

Not literally, I suppose, but neither was the reference to the Appalachian Trail.   rrthree

It was an attempt at humor that failed....
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #69 on: September 10, 2019, 03:39:35 PM »
First, we don't have a "mad King" in the White House...that's a Leftist media meme, not reality.

Second, we already have a President governing with conservative policies...at least conservative in the Reagan sense if not the theoretical purity that some NT's would hold him to.

Finally, this isn't about Sanford's credentials...the man has absolutely zero chance of ever winning a primary or becoming president. Zero. So the ONLY thing his campaign can do is undermine the ONE man who DOES have a chance to defeat the Left in this election.

If Sanford was serious about wanting the job, he'd be looking at 2024 when there won't be a Republican Incumbent.  This may very well be what he's trying to do, by getting the name out there now.
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #70 on: September 10, 2019, 03:39:53 PM »
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." – George Mason, Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 1788

“Do right and risk the consequences.”
– Sam Houston

Offline Mesaclone

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #71 on: September 10, 2019, 04:04:38 PM »
If Sanford was serious about wanting the job, he'd be looking at 2024 when there won't be a Republican Incumbent.  This may very well be what he's trying to do, by getting the name out there now.

Might be some of that, but I'd go with the more simple and obvious reason. Hates Trump who likely cost him re-election and made fun of him. Hoping to get even.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #72 on: September 10, 2019, 06:53:39 PM »
Putting aside the obvious difficulty of securing the nomination,  yes,  I believe that Sanford has a better chance of retaining the White House against the current crop of Dems running on their platform of TDS and socialism.   The reason is simple - the best way to defeat the socialist tide is to hone the kind of effective message that cannot now be heard above the media's obsession with Trump-the-mad-king.

In a vacuum, that is probably correct.  But we're not in a vacuum.  I also don't think you can put aside the difficulty of securing the nomination.  That alone is basically a 0% chance, so you'd have to ask yourself what are the likely side effects of a contested nomination, likely including a lot of very harsh criticism from another Republican.  Do you believe that would help or hurt Trump's chances in the general election should he (overwhelmingly likely) win the nomination?

Also, I thought (and I apologize if I'm misremembering) that you previously acknowledged any Republican running against Trump would either be doomed to lose the nomination, or even if successful, would split the party and guarantee a Democrat victory in the general election.  So, your hope was that someone like McConnell would convince Trump not to run, and then someone like Haley would step forward with Trump's endorsement.  But now, you seem to be supporting an antagonistic, contested run against Trump by another Republican.  That seems like something of a 180 to me.  Or am I wrong about that?  I believe the initial point was correct -- that if by some miracle a primary challenge succeeded, the mass of Trump supporters would be so alienated that 2020 would be a massive landslide up and down the ticket.

Quote
Do you have issues with Sanford's conservative credentials, or are you suggesting that a conservative has no chance of winning and we instead need a big-government populist/demagogue?   

Leaving aside my general opposition to a primary challenge that I described above, Sanford in particular is a terrible candidate.  Policy wise, I really like him.  But the whole Appalachian Trail/cheat on your wife with foreign-born mistress/lie about your location and actually be out of the country and unreachable while governor is a political death sentence.  I think Republican women might even turn on him for that series of actions.

Of course, pro-Democrat media rags like the Washington Post will tout his credentials as a legitimate challenger to Trump, and watch with glee if by miracle he's successful and the party splinters.  They'd then turn on him in a heartbeat and absolutely destroy him in the general election.

He might actually be the most unelectable guy we could possibly run.

@Jazzhead
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 06:55:56 PM by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline skeeter

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #73 on: September 10, 2019, 07:06:54 PM »
In a vacuum, that is probably correct.  But we're not in a vacuum.  I also don't think you can put aside the difficulty of securing the nomination.  That alone is basically a 0% chance, so you'd have to ask yourself what are the likely side effects of a contested nomination, likely including a lot of very harsh criticism from another Republican.  Do you believe that would help or hurt Trump's chances in the general election should he (overwhelmingly likely) win the nomination?

Also, I thought (and I apologize if I'm misremembering) that you previously acknowledged any Republican running against Trump would either be doomed to lose the nomination, or even if successful, would split the party and guarantee a Democrat victory in the general election.  So, your hope was that someone like McConnell would convince Trump not to run, and then someone like Haley would step forward with Trump's endorsement.  But now, you seem to be supporting an antagonistic, contested run against Trump by another Republican.  That seems like something of a 180 to me.  Or am I wrong about that?  I believe the initial point was correct -- that if by some miracle a primary challenge succeeded, the mass of Trump supporters would be so alienated that 2020 would be a massive landslide up and down the ticket.

Leaving aside my general opposition to a primary challenge that I described above, Sanford in particular is a terrible candidate.  Policy wise, I really like him.  But the whole Appalachian Trail/cheat on your wife with foreign-born mistress/lie about your location and actually be out of the country and unreachable while governor is a political death sentence.  I think Republican women might even turn on him for that series of actions.

Of course, pro-Democrat media rags like the Washington Post will tout his credentials as a legitimate challenger to Trump, and watch with glee if by miracle he's successful and the party splinters.  They'd then turn on him in a heartbeat and absolutely destroy him in the general election.

He might actually be the most unelectable guy we could possibly run.

@Jazzhead

The one thing that nearly sank the Trump campaign in 2016 was the acrimonious split between he and the Cruz camp. You still see some residual evidence of that feud today.

Its likely many Cruz people stayed home election night, but that split has pretty much since evaporated, the party is relatively united. And that spells disaster for those who want Trump out.

With these mickey mouse primary challenges they're (whomever they are) seeking to re-create that division, IMHO.
« Last Edit: September 10, 2019, 07:08:31 PM by skeeter »

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Sanford announces challenge to Trump
« Reply #74 on: September 10, 2019, 07:18:29 PM »
Mar Sanford:

""It is my personal view that the largest proclamation of one's faith ought to be in how one lives his life."[28]"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Sanford
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