Sanford announces challenge to Trump

[Jazzhead]

It's not the just the party elites who support cancelling the Presidential primaries, but most rank and file Republicans as well.

What evidence do you have of that?   Besides,  it's wrong and I suspect you know it.   

[roamer_1]

As for the idea that 2016 was somehow the exception because Hillary was their worst possible candidate, I disagree.  Hillary was perceived as sufficiently moderate that she attracted support from some more moderate Republicans.  And from some of the money that normally supports Republicans.  But if the Dem nominee is a hard leftist like Sanders or Warren, they're going to be flatly unacceptable to a lot of moderates.

Then you weren't paying attention. Party apparatchiks steamrolled the Sanders campaign, and Hitlery was coronated. Therein too, was a hardy plurality. But it caused a wide rift in the Democrat party. Many many Sanders fans stayed home in disgust.

That will not happen this time.

And your 40% hard core Tump base is going up against what will be a firmly united Democrat horde.
Good luck with that.

[XenaLee]

Except that it's the same thing.

No.  It's not.

[Cyber Liberty]

What evidence do you have of that?   Besides,  it's wrong and I suspect you know it.

Then I am wrong. I'm one you are accusing in this post.

[roamer_1]

No.  It's not.

Yes, it most certainly IS.

You are supporting an administration whose ballooning spending will put Obama to shame.
That, in the end is the same thing.
Feed the federal beast...

[Maj. Bill Martin]

What evidence do you have of that?   Besides,  it's wrong and I suspect you know it.

While most Republican voters do not want President Trump to face a primary challenger, he is weaker among his party than former President Obama was in 2012 in this regard, according to a poll taken in the days before Trump officially kicked off his 2020 re-election bid.

https://thehill.com/hilltv/what-americas-thinking/449357-poll-republicans-more-interested-in-a-primary-challenge-to

In any case, there's one issue in this discussion that you seem to be consistently avoiding: -- how do you go about not alienating the 35-40% of Republican who are hardcore Trump supporters when you're calling for a contested primary that includes very harsh, public criticism by other Republican candidates?  The ship has sailed on the idea that this would all happen behind the scenes, and McConnell would somehow convince Trump not to run in private.  This battle is out in the open now, and it is unavoidable that those Trump supporters are going to blame the party if he somehow was not the nominee.  The "pat on the head" view some on the GOP establishment have of not very bright Trump supporters is not something to which those supporters are blind.  In fact, most are highly sensitive to it.  I don't see it as remotely possible that they're going to just "forgive and forget" nasty attacks on Trump.

If by some miracle you win the primary battle or force Trump to quit via public pressure, you're going to lose that 40% of the party.

[XenaLee]

Yes, it most certainly IS.

You are supporting an administration whose ballooning spending will put Obama to shame.
That, in the end is the same thing.
Feed the federal beast...

Spending has been out of control for DECADES, but suddenly it's all Trump's fault?  Puhleeze.  Trump is spending taxpayer $$$ on the US Military, national defense and other Conservative priorities.   Under the rats, the military is always decimated, national defense is gutted and fundamentally transformed into a not funny joke, and illegal immigration is a goal, not something to be controlled or ended.   How anyone can say it's the same thing is beyond me.

[roamer_1]

Spending has been out of control for DECADES, but suddenly it's all Trump's fault?  Puhleeze.  Trump is spending taxpayer $$$ on the US Military, national defense and other Conservative priorities.   Under the rats, the military is always decimated, national defense is gutted and fundamentally transformed into a not funny joke, and illegal immigration is a goal, not something to be controlled or ended.   How anyone can say it's the same thing is beyond me.

I don't care what it is spent upon. Money is power, and it feeds the beast. Think as a federalist and it will come plainly into view. And Tump is going to beat Obama (by a lot), who spent more than Bush by double, who spent more than all the money ever created by the US mint in history.

That massive spending spike is not casually thrown away. There is no greater threat to our existence.
And it is the perfect environment for socialism... Which continues unabated.

It's the same damn thing alright. Left foot, right foot... To Venezuela we go.

[Cyber Liberty]

I don't care what it is spent upon. Money is power, and it feeds the beast. Think as a federalist and it will come plainly into view. And Tump is going to beat Obama (by a lot), who spent more than Bush by double, who spent more than all the money ever created by the US mint in history.

That massive spending spike is not casually thrown away. There is no greater threat to our existence.
And it is the perfect environment for socialism... Which continues unabated.

It's the same damn thing alright. Left foot, right foot... To Venezuela we go.

If the situation is that bleak, then we need to vote for Rats in order to speed up the collapse, to start restoring the economy with a tyrant (that's all we'll get once order has finally fallen).

Faster, please!

[Sighlass]

Spending has been out of control for DECADES, but suddenly it's all Trump's fault?  Puhleeze.  Trump is spending taxpayer $$$ on the US Military, national defense and other Conservative priorities.   Under the rats, the military is always decimated, national defense is gutted and fundamentally transformed into a not funny joke, and illegal immigration is a goal, not something to be controlled or ended.   How anyone can say it's the same thing is beyond me.

How can anyone not say it... and then adding "and other Conservative priorities".. Conservative as in giving the democrats everything they wanted? Saying it was a one time thing and then doing it again. What was that campaign promise again? O yeah, In 2016, Trump promised to totally wipe out the national debt over eight years in office. How much of that budget went to building the wall (that Mexico was going to pay for)?

Roamer is dead right... it is out of control.

[Sighlass]

If the situation is that bleak, then we need to vote for Rats in order to speed up the collapse, to start restoring the economy with a tyrant (that's all we'll get once order has finally fallen).

Faster, please!

Funny, the best the budget has been lately was under a democrat president (lame duck) with contract with America... Seems then republicans can remember they are suppose to be conservative.

[skeeter]

If the situation is that bleak, then we need to vote for Rats in order to speed up the collapse, to start restoring the economy with a tyrant (that's all we'll get once order has finally fallen).

Faster, please!

Stay home in November, everyone. The GOP'll soon offer us anything we conservatives want if we'll only come back and vote.

They won't say 'good' and proceed to sound as 'woke' as the rats just because the rat base makes the most of every situation they're offered and friggen shows up to vote.

[roamer_1]

If the situation is that bleak, then we need to vote for Rats in order to speed up the collapse, to start restoring the economy with a tyrant (that's all we'll get once order has finally fallen).

Faster, please!

As history attests, Bush, Obummer, Tump - Party makes no difference.
And that is the point.

Different story if all y'all want to actually oppose it and make a principled stand. Then I am all in.
But merely changing the drapes in the White House every 4/8 years sure as hell ain't getting it done.

[roamer_1]

Funny, the best the budget has been lately was under a democrat president (lame duck) with contract with America... Seems then republicans can remember they are suppose to be conservative.

THAT'S RIGHT.

[Cyber Liberty]

As history attests, Bush, Obummer, Tump - Party makes no difference.
And that is the point.

Different story if all y'all want to actually oppose it and make a principled stand. Then I am all in.
But merely changing the drapes in the White House every 4/8 years sure as hell ain't getting it done.

The "principled stand" is not electable because of all the takers we have in society, so I guess it's probably best to crash the system by electing all Democrats, to hasten the rebuilding to follow.  Viva le Crash!

Faster, please.

[Cyber Liberty]

Stay home in November, everyone. The GOP'll soon offer us anything we conservatives want if we'll only come back and vote.

They won't say 'good' and proceed to sound as 'woke' as the rats just because the rat base makes the most of every situation they're offered and friggen shows up to vote.

I'm not advocating staying home.  No, I have a more radical approach:  Get out and vote, and vote Democrat.  After all, all Republicans are as useless as teats on a boar hog, I hear.

[roamer_1]

Stay home in November, everyone. The GOP'll soon offer us anything we conservatives want if we'll only come back and vote.

They won't say 'good' and proceed to sound as 'woke' as the rats just because the rat base makes the most of every situation they're offered and friggen shows up to vote.

Right... Head out and vote in more moderates and liberals! And castigate Roy Moore and Mike Lee! Curse Bolton as he gets churned under the bus... Because TUMP!
That'll fix it! 

[Cyber Liberty]

Screw that.  Vote for the genuine article, vote Dem.  Hasten the collapse and get it over with.

[roamer_1]

The "principled stand" is not electable because of all the takers we have in society, so I guess it's probably best to crash the system by electing all Democrats, to hasten the rebuilding to follow.  Viva le Crash!

Faster, please.

Fine. Have it your way - To me there is no difference. 
I will just keep voting for Conservatives. You know... The people that would actually fix it.

[skeeter]

Right... Head out and vote in more moderates and liberals! And castigate Roy Moore and Mike Lee! Curse Bolton as he gets churned under the bus... Because TUMP!
That'll fix it! 

*Looks over both shoulders*

[Cyber Liberty]

Fine. Have it your way - To me there is no difference. 
I will just keep voting for Conservatives. You know... The people that would actually fix it.

We thought we were doing that. but I guess not, so I've given up.   

[skeeter]

Fine. Have it your way - To me there is no difference. 
I will just keep voting for Conservatives. You know... The people that would actually fix it.

I wish the rats were as principled way back when and refused to move the ball forward unless it could be moved all the way into the end zone in one hail mary. We wouldn't be dealing with Kamala Harris and Bernie Sanders today.

[roamer_1]

We thought we were doing that. but I guess not, so I've given up.   

When Mike Lee is spit upon in a Conservative forum something is damn well wrong.
The Turtle and Gramnesty are heroes, and Roy Moore is a POS.
Conservatives are getting mowed over by the GOP and the Tump administration, and people cheer.
A republican president on the fast track to spend more money that in all of history (AGAIN) and it is brushed aside.

I don't know whatever you call it, But it sure as hell ain't Conservatism.

[roamer_1]

I wish the rats were as principled way back when and refused to move the ball forward unless it could be moved all the way into the end zone in one hail mary. We wouldn't be dealing with Kamala Harris and Bernie Sanders today.

Oh stop it. In all my life the Republicans have not moved the ball a single inch. They have lost ground continually on every front. That is not anything but design.

Like I said, no opposition. BOHICA

[Cyber Liberty]

When Mike Lee is spit upon in a Conservative forum something is damn well wrong.
The Turtle and Gramnesty are heroes, and Roy Moore is a POS.
Conservatives are getting mowed over by the GOP and the Tump administration, and people cheer.
A republican president on the fast track to spend more money that in all of history (AGAIN) and it is brushed aside.

I don't know whatever you call it, But it sure as hell ain't Conservatism.

It doesn't matter.  We can't stop the crash, only slow it down, so I say bring it.  Faster please.

I give up on trying anymore.