Author Topic: Buttigieg Defends Abortion by Suggesting the Bible Says ‘Life Begins with Breath’  (Read 2865 times)

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Offline OfTheCross

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BANG!

A human being "at that stage" is surviving in the natural world.
But not on it's own. It's not a viable life. It can't survive independent of the mother. A baby can.
If a well-regulated militia be the most natural defense of a free country, it ought certainly to be under the regulation and at the disposal of that body which is constituted the guardian of the national security.

Offline bigheadfred

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But not on it's own. It's not a viable life. It can't survive independent of the mother. A baby can.

uh huh

There are tens, if not hundreds of MILLIONS of adult people in this country who couldn't survive on their own in the natural world.

Offline OfTheCross

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uh huh

There are tens, if not hundreds of MILLIONS of adult people in this country who couldn't survive on their own in the natural world.

What do you mean?
If a well-regulated militia be the most natural defense of a free country, it ought certainly to be under the regulation and at the disposal of that body which is constituted the guardian of the national security.

Offline Hoodat

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Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you.

Jeremiah 1:5
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-

Offline The Ghost

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What do you mean?
He means humans eat more banana's than monkeys... but he has never seen a human eat a monkey.

“Here’s the truth. Life begins at conception. Government is too big. Our taxes are too high. And our car insurance is too expensive. President Trump is doing a great job. Facts matter more than feelings. The Second Amendment is self-explanatory. And as a doctor, I can assure you there are only two genders.”

Offline Hoodat

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And the answer should be:  every woman must have the right to decide for herself, on the basis of her own conscience informed by her experience,  her faith and those who love and support her.

The woman already made a decision.  The result of that decision led to a new life being created.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-

Offline bigheadfred

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What do you mean?

Most people, especially those raised in urban environments, are taught no survival skills. Take them from that unnatural environment and drop them into their natural environment and they will probably die without the aid of someone who does have survival skills. They aren't "viable" in the natural world.


Offline bigheadfred

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He means humans eat more banana's than monkeys... but he has never seen a human eat a monkey.

Does rat on a stick count?

Offline skeeter

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But not on it's own. It's not a viable life. It can't survive independent of the mother. A baby can.

Huh? No it can’t.

Offline OfTheCross

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Most people, especially those raised in urban environments, are taught no survival skills. Take them from that unnatural environment and drop them into their natural environment and they will probably die without the aid of someone who does have survival skills. They aren't "viable" in the natural world.



I see you're being disingenuous in your response. I suppose that means you concede that 13 week old fetus is not viable.

The woman already made a decision.  The result of that decision led to a new life being created.

Obvious follow-up: What about in cases of rape?
If a well-regulated militia be the most natural defense of a free country, it ought certainly to be under the regulation and at the disposal of that body which is constituted the guardian of the national security.

Offline OfTheCross

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Huh? No it can’t.
Yes, it can. Of course it's an infant, and an adult has to care for it. But it does not depend on the mother to survive.
If a well-regulated militia be the most natural defense of a free country, it ought certainly to be under the regulation and at the disposal of that body which is constituted the guardian of the national security.

Offline bigheadfred

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I see you're being disingenuous in your response. I suppose that means you concede that 13 week old fetus is not viable.

Obvious follow-up: What about in cases of rape?

It is viable because it is in its natural environment.

Offline Jazzhead

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Personally,  I believe that life begins at conception.  But that's not the issue.  The issue is whether the State should impose my moral view on others at the point of a gun.

And my answer is - of course not.
"He was born poor, died rich, and never hurt anyone along the way"

   - Duke Ellington, upon hearing of the death of Louis Armstrong

"Not forever.  Just for now"

    - Jay Farrar

Offline Sanguine

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Personally,  I believe that life begins at conception.  But that's not the issue.  The issue is whether the State should impose my moral view on others at the point of a gun.

And my answer is - of course not.

Wait - we impose our moral view on murderers.  We impose our views on child abusers, burglars and arsonists.  But, when it comes to killing babies we shouldn't? 
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." – George Mason, Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 1788

“Do right and risk the consequences.”
– Sam Houston

Offline Hoodat

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Viability is the true test.

So who gets to decide what is viable?
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-

Offline Jazzhead

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Wait - we impose our moral view on murderers.  We impose our views on child abusers, burglars and arsonists.  But, when it comes to killing babies we shouldn't?

Correct.  At least not before the fetus is viable. 
"He was born poor, died rich, and never hurt anyone along the way"

   - Duke Ellington, upon hearing of the death of Louis Armstrong

"Not forever.  Just for now"

    - Jay Farrar

Offline bigheadfred

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Personally,  I believe that life begins at conception.  But that's not the issue.  The issue is whether the State should impose my moral view on others at the point of a gun.

And my answer is - of course not.

Is it a moral view or a biological imperative?

The State is imposing a moral view on others at the point of a knife.


Offline Hoodat

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Obvious follow-up: What about in cases of rape?

I'm simply not seeing how a woman being raped justifies a woman who wasn't raped to kill her child.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-

Offline skeeter

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Yes, it can. Of course it's an infant, and an adult has to care for it. But it does not depend on the mother to survive.

Ok. Then can THAT adult kill it?

Offline Hoodat

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Personally,  I believe that life begins at conception.  But that's not the issue.  The issue is whether the State should impose my moral view on others at the point of a gun.

And my answer is - of course not.

Yet you advocate exactly that.  You unequivocally deny the right of the people of each State to formulate their own laws under Amendment X of the Constitution of the United States of America, supporting instead the tyranny of the court (the de facto 'state') to impose its will on an entire nation.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-

Offline bigheadfred

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Someone try to out stupid this>

You take a live viable sperm and a live viable egg. Unite them and they form a nonviable--life?


Offline Sanguine

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Correct.  At least not before the fetus is viable.

We've already debunked the viability argument.  Maybe you skimmed over that?
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." – George Mason, Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 1788

“Do right and risk the consequences.”
– Sam Houston

Offline OfTheCross

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Someone try to out stupid this>

You take a live viable sperm and a live viable egg. Unite them and they form a nonviable--life?

You take a viable egg and some good viable flour and you don't get a viable cake. It has get cooked in the oven.

If you take it out too soon, it's no good.

Same logic applies.

If a well-regulated militia be the most natural defense of a free country, it ought certainly to be under the regulation and at the disposal of that body which is constituted the guardian of the national security.

Offline Hoodat

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You take a viable egg and some good viable flour and you don't get a viable cake. It has get cooked in the oven.

If you take it out too soon, it's no good.

Same logic applies.

So the lesson here is to leave it in the oven until it's done.  Got it.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-

Offline OfTheCross

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So the lesson here is to leave it in the oven until it's done.  Got it.

Or take it out if you don't want it
If a well-regulated militia be the most natural defense of a free country, it ought certainly to be under the regulation and at the disposal of that body which is constituted the guardian of the national security.


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