Buttigieg Defends Abortion by Suggesting the Bible Says ‘Life Begins with Breath’

[roamer_1]

@roamer_1 you have to remember Jazzy believes that it's always the mans fault a woman gets pregnant...and a woman in his view has no self control or obligation to keep their legs closed.

@txradioguy
Likewise the cackling hags of feminism...
'Reproductive rights' my a$$.

If men and women are truly equal, then 'reproductive accountability' would reflect it... And would not be at the heart-wrenching expense of a mountain of slaughtered children.

[Hoodat]

Who here is pro-abortion?   Defending a woman's Constitutional liberty is not the same as being "pro-abortion".

Constitutional liberty?  This ought to be good.  Where exactly in the Constitution can I find this 'liberty to kill the unborn'?

As for "pro-abortion", anyone who argues that "abortion must remain legal" without regard to the Constitution is most certainly "pro-abortion".  Likewise, anyone denying the right of the people of each State to establish their own laws under Amendment X in order for abortion to remain 'legal' is not only "pro-abortion", but is also "pro-tyranny".

[txradioguy]

@txradioguy
Likewise the cackling hags of feminism...
'Reproductive rights' my a$$.

If men and women are truly equal, then 'reproductive accountability' would reflect it... And would not be at the heart-wrenching expense of a mountain of slaughtered children.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[txradioguy]

Constitutional liberty?  This ought to be good.  Where exactly in the Constitution can I find this 'liberty to kill the unborn'?

As for "pro-abortion", anyone who argues that "abortion must remain legal" without regard to the Constitution is most certainly "pro-abortion".  Likewise, anyone denying the right of the people of each State to establish their own laws under Amendment X in order for abortion to remain 'legal' is not only "pro-abortion", but is also "pro-tyranny".

Even the Clerk for Justice Blackmun that actually wrote the majority opinion in what became Roe v Wade says the decision had nothing to do with the Constitution.

[XenaLee]

Come on out here to Montana for a couple of weeks, and lets see how you survive in the natural world.

Montana is great.   I once hiked up a mountain there (Missoula area) 2 miles steep uphill, to a pristine trout-hungry lake.   It was beautiful!   The trout would hit a bare hook they were so starved.  If I ever had to move from Texas, that's where I'd probably go.  (sorry for the derail... I just had to)

[Hoodat]

I once hiked up a mountain there (Missoula area) 2 miles steep uphill, to a pristine trout-hungry lake.   It was beautiful!   The trout would hit a bare hook they were so starved.

Had that same experience in Wyoming.  Not many fishermen are willing to venture above the tree line.

[XenaLee]

Had that same experience in Wyoming.  Not many fishermen are willing to venture above the tree line.

It was a tough climb, but in the end, it was well worth it.

[roamer_1]

Montana is great.   I once hiked up a mountain there (Missoula area) 2 miles steep uphill, to a pristine trout-hungry lake.   It was beautiful!   The trout would hit a bare hook they were so starved.  If I ever had to move from Texas, that's where I'd probably go.  (sorry for the derail... I just had to)

You ain't seen nothin yet, darlin. It's God's own country, but the truly spectacular can only be seen with a week or two to kill... Hiking or horses... Or snowshoe in to a high mountain lake, hot-tenting in below zero conditions... So beautiful... So crisp and pristine it makes your heart hurt.

There's a hanging valley I know... Only one way in... massive walls reaching to the sky on three sides... A creek runs through a twenty acre meadow to a little puddle of a lake... Deep, crystal blue, clean and clear to the bottom... full of pan-size brookies.

It is very literally the best place on earth... Other than it takes two days to get there, and most of it nearly rock climbing... Which may partly be why, once I get there, I don't want to leave. 

 

[XenaLee]

You ain't seen nothin yet, darlin. It's God's own country, but the truly spectacular can only be seen with a week or two to kill... Hiking or horses... Or snowshoe in to a high mountain lake, hot-tenting in below zero conditions... So beautiful... So crisp and pristine it makes your heart hurt.

There's a hanging valley I know... Only one way in... massive walls reaching to the sky on three sides... A creek runs through a twenty acre meadow to a little puddle of a lake... Deep, crystal blue, clean and clear to the bottom... full of pan-size brookies.

It is very literally the best place on earth... Other than it takes two days to get there, and most of it nearly rock climbing... Which may partly be why, once I get there, I don't want to leave. 

 

The scenery is spectacular there.  My hike was in the dead of summer, btw.  No cold or snow at all, which I detest.  Got enough snow to last a lifetime in Norfolk, Virginia.   I love horses, but don't think the hike I/we made would have been good for them.   Love, love, love fresh water fishing.  Ah.... nice dream, roamer.   Hike to heaven and get to stay....lol.

[Jazzhead]

You ain't seen nothin yet, darlin. It's God's own country, but the truly spectacular can only be seen with a week or two to kill... Hiking or horses... Or snowshoe in to a high mountain lake, hot-tenting in below zero conditions... So beautiful... So crisp and pristine it makes your heart hurt.

There's a hanging valley I know... Only one way in... massive walls reaching to the sky on three sides... A creek runs through a twenty acre meadow to a little puddle of a lake... Deep, crystal blue, clean and clear to the bottom... full of pan-size brookies.

It is very literally the best place on earth... Other than it takes two days to get there, and most of it nearly rock climbing... Which may partly be why, once I get there, I don't want to leave. 

 

That's poetry, @roamer_1 .   Thanks for the description.   

[aligncare]

I wonder how many women who have considered abortion at a point late in her pregnancy because she recently lost her job, or her husband died and she’s in a critical financial situation, or in the interim got a new job that demands lots of travel and time away from home—whatever her reasons; how many have earlier in the pregnancy chosen a name for their gestating baby?

My point is, she knew fully her baby was a brand new life and not some anonymous tissue mass, some non-person that she can just dispose as they were about to be born.

For this person, “choice” is just code for “rationalization” of murder.

[roamer_1]

Ah.... nice dream, roamer.   Hike to heaven and get to stay....lol.

I'll go dig around in the couch and see if I cain't raise up a bus ticket for ya. 

[roamer_1]

That's poetry, @roamer_1 .   Thanks for the description.

 

[XenaLee]

I'll go dig around in the couch and see if I cain't raise up a bus ticket for ya. 

Lol!

[roamer_1]

I wonder how many women who have considered abortion at a point late in her pregnancy because she recently lost her job, or her husband died and she’s in a critical financial situation, or in the interim got a new job that demands lots of travel and time away from home—whatever her reasons; how many have earlier in the pregnancy chosen a name for their gestating baby?

My point is, she knew fully her baby was a brand new life and not some anonymous tissue mass, some non-person that she can just dispose as they were about to be born.

For this person, “choice” is just code for “rationalization” of murder.

Literally always the case.
Every child is a gift from God.
In my experience they never come at the right time.
You never know how the hell to make the ends meet.
But somehow, they always do.

I know a little gal right now... maybe thirty... got raped a while back.
She's got nothin. She lives in a shitty ol motor home on borrowed land, getting shore power from a shop my buddy owns. She makes do this way and that - my buddy has her answering phones at the shop to help her get along.
But her baby girl... That precious girl that rape gave her... She's the light of her life. Bright and lively, cute as a bug. Just the best.

Ain't it funny how that worked out.
And that is the truth of it. That is why I find abortion to be such a scourge. The 'easy' way in what looks like a dark time of trouble destroys the coming blessing a young girl can't yet see. And what a penultimate blessing it is.

[XenaLee]

Literally always the case.
Every child is a gift from God.
In my experience they never come at the right time.
You never know how the hell to make the ends meet.
But somehow, they always do.

I know a little gal right now... maybe thirty... got raped a while back.
She's got nothin. She lives in a shitty ol motor home on borrowed land, getting shore power from a shop my buddy owns. She makes do this way and that - my buddy has her answering phones at the shop to help her get along.
But her baby girl... That precious girl that rape gave her... She's the light of her life. Bright and lively, cute as a bug. Just the best.

Ain't it funny how that worked out.
And that is the truth of it. That is why I find abortion to be such a scourge. The 'easy' way in what looks like a dark time of trouble destroys the coming blessing a young girl can't yet see. And what a penultimate blessing it is.

Most of the folks that have abortions (multiple) probably don't really believe in "blessings", much less in God.   If they did they'd be afraid to have an abortion re: God's judgment and wrath. 

I have a friend, like a sister, that had two abortions in her college years.   She regrets it now, and is a Christian now (only pretended to be previously), but all she can do is ask for forgiveness and hope it is given.  If your Christian faith is strong, you would never have an abortion.   What's alarming is how many non-Christians (much less anti-Christians) there are in America now.  Fundamental transformation, indeed.

[bilo]

Absolutely right. The only defense I have seen is YHWH breathing life into Adam...

In the first place, that process seems to be entirely different from birth, so it does not apply. In the second place, the breath of life is not necessarily breath in the conventional sense - Many things live that have no breath at all. So I fail to see how the passage definitively supports the idea that life begins with breath.

Word-wrangling. I so cannot stand verse-slingers.

Great points. Also, for serious believers we understand that Scripture interprets Scripture. IOW, Scripture is consistent. If an interpretation of one verse is is in conflict with numerous other verses there is something wrong with the interpretation of the one verse.   

[roamer_1]

Most of the folks that have abortions (multiple) probably don't really believe in "blessings", much less in God.   If they did they'd be afraid to have an abortion re: God's judgment and wrath. 

I have a friend, like a sister, that had two abortions in her college years.   She regrets it now, and is a Christian now (only pretended to be previously), but all she can do is ask for forgiveness and hope it is given.  If your Christian faith is strong, you would never have an abortion.   What's alarming is how many non-Christians (much less anti-Christians) there are in America now.  Fundamental transformation, indeed.

Being a product of my brilliantly misspent yoot, I have the pleasure of knowing a few gals who were likewise... And while it ain't really the sort of thing women talk to to men, I have witnessed similar confessions. The regret that haunts those women... After they actually have children, and wonder about the faces of the ones they 'rejected'... That is another deep and scarring aspect that no one ever talks about... The aftermath.

As to Christian strength preventing it - SO very many get sucked into the bottomless pit of party life. I was a stalwart and paladin before my faith was tested - Tested by honkytonks and hoochie-mammas... Drinkin, and lovin, and fightin, and carryin on... And oh, how I failed that test. I blowed that up real good.

So I have no stones to throw.

And I expect, just as my walk down that road has made me a powerful witness against it, those recovered party gals have a similar tale to tell. And nothing in the world gives you faith like knowing what the difference is, by experience. May God bless em, every one, and forgive em, like he has me.

That's all I got.

[roamer_1]

Great points. Also, for serious believers we understand that Scripture interprets Scripture. IOW, Scripture is consistent. If an interpretation of one verse is is in conflict with numerous other verses there is something wrong with the interpretation of the one verse.

@bilo
That's right - More than consistent. Interlocked. Critical path with guardrails and backstops.

As an aside, and as one who comes from the position of textual criticism, That Book simply amazes me in its construction. For nigh on thirty years I have been reading it over and over, and every time, there's another layer to peel back... You find something that seems out of place, and it makes you dig deeper... to yet another discovery, and another reference, and another layer... Over and over, every which way... It is simply an astonishment. I have never seen anything to compare.

And that construction - the framework, the hyperlinks (since ancient days), the coding, the Hebrew puns, heck, even the names and placenames... More that anything else, that construction and composition convinced me that no mere man inspired it.

A marvelous work. A miracle.

[XenaLee]

Being a product of my brilliantly misspent yoot, I have the pleasure of knowing a few gals who were likewise... And while it ain't really the sort of thing women talk to to men, I have witnessed similar confessions. The regret that haunts those women... After they actually have children, and wonder about the faces of the ones they 'rejected'... That is another deep and scarring aspect that no one ever talks about... The aftermath.

As to Christian strength preventing it - SO very many get sucked into the bottomless pit of party life. I was a stalwart and paladin before my faith was tested - Tested by honkytonks and hoochie-mammas... Drinkin, and lovin, and fightin, and carryin on... And oh, how I failed that test. I blowed that up real good.

So I have no stones to throw.

And I expect, just as my walk down that road has made me a powerful witness against it, those recovered party gals have a similar tale to tell. And nothing in the world gives you faith like knowing what the difference is, by experience. May God bless em, every one, and forgive em, like he has me.

That's all I got.

Exactly.   We all were much more "liberal" (I really hate that word now) in our youth.  But with age comes experience and wisdom, if you're lucky and if you're not a stuckonstupid leftie Democrat.   

     

[roamer_1]

Exactly.   We all were much more "liberal" (I really hate that word now) in our youth.  But with age comes experience and wisdom, if you're lucky and if you're not a stuckonstupid leftie Democrat.   

    

That's right.
 

[OfTheCross]

For the pro-life crowd...what then of the children once they're born?

What happens if the parents are poor, unable to maintain a livelihood and living off the government?

Should we bolster our SNAP and Low-income programs to assure them a better life?

Should we increase investments in education and after-care so that, hopefully, the children don't repeat the same mistakes as their parents?

[Wingnut]

For the pro-life crowd...what then of the children once they're born?

What happens if the parents are poor, unable to maintain a livelihood and living off the government?

Should we bolster our SNAP and Low-income programs to assure them a better life?

Should we increase investments in education and after-care so that, hopefully, the children don't repeat the same mistakes as their parents?

Are you of the mind that we should make some slight provision for the Poor and Destitute, who suffer greatly at the present time. Many thousands are in want of common necessaries; hundreds of thousands are in want of common comforts?

[IsailedawayfromFR]

For the pro-life crowd...what then of the children once they're born?

What happens if the parents are poor, unable to maintain a livelihood and living off the government?

Should we bolster our SNAP and Low-income programs to assure them a better life?

Should we increase investments in education and after-care so that, hopefully, the children don't repeat the same mistakes as their parents?

If they are born into this country as citizens, they have every opportunity any of us had when we were born.

Only the truly gutless or ignorant believe otherwise.

I believe you and Sanger share a common belief.

[roamer_1]

For the pro-life crowd...what then of the children once they're born?

What happens if the parents are poor, unable to maintain a livelihood and living off the government?

Should we bolster our SNAP and Low-income programs to assure them a better life?

Should we increase investments in education and after-care so that, hopefully, the children don't repeat the same mistakes as their parents?

What works is marriage.

Income has little to do with 'better life'

Marriage was the norm before the rampant sexual revolution spawned millions of SNAP sucking single parent households full of bastard children. Endorse marriage and SNAP will go down.

And again, the repeated mistake is in the party mentality that society endorses via the idea of rampant sex being normal. Endorse marriage. Insist. You get more of what you endorse. And mistakes will go down. Also make divorce way harder to do. The vow is life long, and commitment is a priority.

As to the equity of that, like we talked about earlier, both the man, and the woman are equally committed within wedlock, and the child in an unbroken home has a far greater chance of a good raising. Far better than any other.