Author Topic: Amazon joins Walmart in blaming Tesla's solar panels for fires  (Read 971 times)

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Offline thackney

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Amazon joins Walmart in blaming Tesla's solar panels for fires
https://calgaryherald.com/commodities/energy/amazon-joins-walmart-in-blaming-tesla-solar-panels-for-fires/wcm/c8035f98-b603-4834-9719-5d1e4ac6d9f1
August 26, 2019

On Friday, Amazon.com Inc. said a June 2018 blaze on the roof of one of its warehouses in Redlands, California, involved a solar system that Tesla’s SolarCity division installed. The Seattle-based retail giant said by email that it has since taken steps to protect its facilities and has no plans to install more Tesla systems.

News of the Amazon fire comes days after Walmart sued Tesla, accusing it of shoddy panel installations that led to fires at more than a half-dozen stores. The claims threaten to further erode Tesla’s solar business as the company is fighting to gain back market share.

Walmart and Tesla issued a joint statement late Thursday, saying they were in talks to resolve their issues. “Both companies want each and every system to operate reliably, efficiently, and safely,” they said.

In the complaint filed Tuesday, Walmart said it had leased or licensed roof space at more than 240 stores to Tesla’s energy unit. Two of the Walmart fires occurred in May 2018. Amazon said it has a very small number of solar systems installed by Tesla.

More widely known for its electric cars, Tesla bought panel installer SolarCity three years ago in a US$2.6-billion deal that was highly controversial. SolarCity’s chief executive officer at the time is the cousin of Tesla CEO Elon Musk, and Musk was the chairman of SolarCity’s board.

Also last week, Business Insider reported that Tesla launched an effort to replace a faulty part used in some of its solar panel systems last year. It was unclear whether issues with the component known as a “connector” affected Walmart or Amazon installations....
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Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Amazon joins Walmart in blaming Tesla's solar panels for fires
« Reply #1 on: August 27, 2019, 06:06:34 pm »
Quote
Also last week, Business Insider reported that Tesla launched an effort to replace a faulty part used in some of its solar panel systems last year. It was unclear whether issues with the component known as a “connector” affected Walmart or Amazon installations.

Tesla said in response to the Business Insider story that some connectors manufactured by Amphenol Corp. “experienced failures and disconnections at a higher rate than our standards allow.” Over the past year, the company said, less than 1 per cent of sites with these connectors exhibited abnormal behavior.

In a statement Sunday, Amphenol rejected any suggestion that its products caused the fires.

“We have no reason to believe that Amphenol’s products are the cause of any issues related to the claims filed by Walmart against Tesla,” the Wallingford, Connecticut-based company said. “We stand behind the quality of our products.”

Amphenol has been a major connector vendor longer than I've been alive (I have faint memories of the Kennedy-Nixon debates). They are a solid company. OTOH, pretty much any solar companies like Solar City I regard as mountebanks, slightly more slippery than non-dealer used car lots.

But, taking Tesla's word for it that the connectors "failed", how night this have happened? Well, high current connectors have to pretty much perfect contact - from the wires to the connector contacts, from the socket contact to the pin contact. Poor contact in any of those interfaces will heat up, degenerate and get hotter, and either catch fire or open up with an arc that causes a fire. The plastic materials used for connector shells are supposed to be self-extinguishing, but the heat of the arc can keep a fire going and flaming molten plastic can cause the fire to spread.

So, what could cause poor contact at one of those interfaces? Contacts are normally crimped onto wires. I hate this, but a properly done crimp will be gas-tight and maintain a low-resistance contact for years or decades. BUT a good crimp requires using the the manufacturer's tool, properly maintained and adjusted, the correct-sized contacts, and skillfully done. As for the contact-to-contact interface (whether pin-and-socket or hermaphroditic), that too must be near perfect. The correct contacts must be used (e.g. current rating). If the connector is exposed to weather, the proper shells must be used. Cables must be routed so there are no bends exerting force on the connection that could distort the pins or sockets.

That's a longish and somewhat technoid explanation of why I think the connectors caught fire, but probably due improper installation rather than actual defective parts.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

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Offline DB

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Re: Amazon joins Walmart in blaming Tesla's solar panels for fires
« Reply #2 on: August 27, 2019, 06:31:07 pm »
Generally speaking you want to operate the connector with significant margin for reliability/safety. Typically 50% or less of its maximum carrying capacity. In addition the engineering has to be done correctly when using high current connectors and wires. The more pins used in the same connector operating at high current the more margin you need because of the additional combined self heating. How much heat the wires carry away from the pins also affects the current rating. If the wires are well insulated and in bundles they don't provide much heat conduction out of the connector. All the little details matter in these situations. The connector itself is just one piece of the larger puzzle to making high current wiring reliable and safe.

Offline thackney

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Offline PeteS in CA

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Re: Amazon joins Walmart in blaming Tesla's solar panels for fires
« Reply #4 on: August 27, 2019, 07:09:39 pm »
@PeteS in CA

This issue is more than a connector.

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-project-titan-replace-bad-solar-panel-parts-2019-8

Reading the article, it looks like the circuit feeding the power grid is the solar panel array, an "optimizer", and an inverter, which is connected to the grid. I'm guessing the "optimizer" limits array current during low-light conditions, and cuts the feed when it gets too dark. Tesla used two or more vendors' "optimizers", but just the Amphenol connectors, and fires occurred with two or more vendors' "optimizers". That points strongly to the part in common, the Amphenol connectors. The other interesting information in the article - which was informative - was that the people who installed and maintained at least some of the systems were less skillful than rrthree . That makes me all the more suspicious of the contact crimps and possible stresses at the connectors.

I don't work in the solar industry, but I've worked in power electronics for nearly 40 years. I've seen some of the effects of bad crimps, damaged high current contacts, and using contacts for currents greater than their rating. It doesn't smell good or look pretty. I could be wrong, of course. Even excellent vendors occasionally have bad batches of parts.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Re: Amazon joins Walmart in blaming Tesla's solar panels for fires
« Reply #5 on: August 27, 2019, 08:09:34 pm »
I wonder how many doofuses have installed these on their home roofs?

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