Author Topic: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria  (Read 603 times)

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Offline EdJames

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Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria
« on: August 25, 2019, 03:58:24 PM »
[long article, worth clicking through to read the rest]

Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria

https://www.deepcapture.com/2019/08/maria-butina-and-i-part-i-meeting-maria/

Posted on 25 August 2019 by Patrick Byrne

It is not my intent to reveal anything beyond what I recently said on TV (and likely, even less). Given that much of that is now going through a media blender, I aim merely to organize and state clearly the things I said on television recently, so as to reduce room for misreporting.

          A frequently played video in the news this past year has been a clip from the summer of 2015: a 26 year old Maria Butina standing up in a Las Vegas conference to ask Candidate Donald Trump a question. The conference was FreedomFest, an annual conference for liberals (a.k.a. “classical liberals”, “philosophical liberals,” “libertarians”) that occurs in Las Vegas each summer, when freedom-oriented people descend on Vegas for four days and hear lectures on everything from Alexis de Toqueville to Hayek, from the Magna Carta to Bitcoin to Emigrating to Panama.

          A glance at the schedule of the 2015 FreedomFest will confirm that I was at that conference as well. Wednesday, the opening day, I gave the keynote (“Turtles All the Way Down: How the Crypto-Revolution Solves Intractable Problems on Wall Street”), and participated in a panel Thursday. I left Friday afternoon. Candidate Trump spoke arrived and spoke Saturday, so we never crossed paths.

          After my opening keynote, there was a line of perhaps a couple dozen people waiting to talk, take a photo with me, or even ask for an autograph (yes, it happens, and it is still weird). I noticed a well-dressed, professional, striking redheaded young woman standing off to the side, her position and posture indicating she was not seeking an autograph, but had purposeful business and was waiting for the people asking for photos and autographs to dissipate. She cut quite a figure, not just from her dress and physique, but mostly from her carriage. I assumed she was a reporter.

          When those waiting had dissipated, she approached me and handed me her card. It identified her as “Maria Butina”, the president of a gun rights group in Russia. She spoke of it for perhaps 30 seconds, mentioning it had something to do with General Kalashnikov. The truth is, though, unlike most everyone else in that room that day, I’m not into guns. I am OK with them, I have had some basic classes, but I do not fetishize them. Thus I did not have much interest in hearing about gun rights in Russia, and so after perhaps a minute at the most, I smiled at Maria and thanked her, pocketing her card, and walked away.

          The next day I was on a panel. After the panel again a line of a dozen or two dozen well-wishers. There was no sign of Maria, but this time when I walked away with my assistant down an empty hallway out the back, there she was. She sidled up to me as I walked (my assistant stepped away to give us privacy) and said,  “Dr. Byrne, please allow me to tell you why I am really here. Here is my other card.” She presented me a card identifying her as Special Assistant to the Vice Chairman of the Central Bank of Russia. “I have been sent here to make contact with you.”

 Smoothly, with polished grammar beneath her Russian accent, she continued, “Did you know that in certain circles in Russia you are a famous man? We know about you, we know about your relationship with Milton Friedman, we watch your videos on Youtube about leeberalism. I have been sent here to this conference to deliver you a message. Would you afford me 90 minutes to speak with you privately?” She had clearly polished her delivery.

          When traveling on business, I generally get a suite so that I can have business meetings in the suite’s living room, rather than conduct business meetings over meals in restaurants (and thus I avoid about 5,000 calories per day). I would generally not extend an invitation to such an unknown quantity, for all the obvious reasons. However, I have taught frequently at the university level (including Stanford and Dartmouth), and have been around lots of talented young men and women: my impression of Maria was that that she was extremely professional in dress and manner, comported herself impressively, and came across as a much more serious person than most 26 years could pull off.  I told her of my suite and asked her if she would be comfortable having lunch with me there, watching her closely for her reaction. She thought for only an instant, then accepted professionally, with no hint of coquetry.

I turned to my assistant and told him to book her for lunch the following day in my suite.

          I should clear up a few matters:

--snipped--

Offline EdJames

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Re: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2019, 04:19:15 PM »
@Bigun @Smokin Joe @XenaLee @Sanguine

OK, I read through part one.  He does a good job of spelling out the origin of the relationship, certainly much better than the television interviews.  Also lays out quite a bit of his background, certainly an interesting fellow to say the least....

Offline Bigun

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Re: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2019, 04:32:50 PM »
Very interesting reading @EdJames. Thanks for posting this.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria
« Reply #3 on: August 25, 2019, 04:41:32 PM »
Thank you, @EdJames.
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." – George Mason, Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 1788

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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria
« Reply #4 on: August 25, 2019, 05:15:27 PM »
Interesting, Thanks!
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Offline EdJames

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Re: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2019, 05:21:04 PM »
I will keep a lookout for Part 2....  if it is as clearly written as Part 1, it should be illuminating....

(I am finding that whole site fascinating, a lot of interesting articles....)

Offline Victoria33

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Re: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria
« Reply #6 on: August 25, 2019, 05:45:02 PM »
Interesting, Thanks!
@Smokin Joe
@Applewood 

I saw Byrne when on the air with Chris Cuomo.  They have been best friends for many years so this was not just any anchor talking to him.  It was personal between them.  The interview had not been planned - it was spur of the moment.  At the end, Cuomo said CNN would follow up on this, check sources to verify Byrne's meetings with FBI named Strzok and Comey (Comey was "Z") and those not named (X,Y).

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Offline XenaLee

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Re: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria
« Reply #7 on: August 25, 2019, 06:48:59 PM »
@Bigun @Smokin Joe @XenaLee @Sanguine

OK, I read through part one.  He does a good job of spelling out the origin of the relationship, certainly much better than the television interviews.  Also lays out quite a bit of his background, certainly an interesting fellow to say the least....

So, it was just a "cover story" that they were having an affair?   Gee, you can't trust anything (even lust) any more.   Doesn't sound like it was the FBI that instructed him to pursue her, like he previously claimed.   So he lied?

Quote
She declared that we would continue to communicate “under the guise of having romantic relationship” to make arrangements for our next meeting, where we would plan out such a trip, if I were interested.
Time for unity in America! (better late than never)


Offline EdJames

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Re: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria
« Reply #8 on: August 25, 2019, 09:02:26 PM »
So, it was just a "cover story" that they were having an affair?   Gee, you can't trust anything (even lust) any more.   Doesn't sound like it was the FBI that instructed him to pursue her, like he previously claimed.   So he lied?

We have to wait to see what happens in Part 2...

Offline austingirl

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Re: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria
« Reply #9 on: August 25, 2019, 09:11:19 PM »
Thanks for the post @EdJames

Byrne writes well. He comes off much better in writing than he did in his television interview with Martha McCallum. I'm taking a wait and see attitude about his revelations.
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Offline EdJames

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Re: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria
« Reply #10 on: August 25, 2019, 09:39:33 PM »
I agree @austingirl, Part 2 should be interesting.....

Offline XenaLee

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Re: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria
« Reply #11 on: August 25, 2019, 09:55:18 PM »
We have to wait to see what happens in Part 2...

You know I hate cliff-hangers.   9999hair out0000
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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria
« Reply #12 on: August 26, 2019, 02:36:21 AM »
You know I hate cliff-hangers.   9999hair out0000
Well, at least we don't have to watch commercials....
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
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There are no "Socialists", no "Progressives", only Communists, with every negative image that totalitarianism might muster, demanding fealty and conformity to their views, with a legacy of 150,000,000 dead and counting.

Offline XenaLee

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Re: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2019, 07:43:16 AM »
Well, at least we don't have to watch commercials....

Or listen.  Nothing worse than singing commercials. 
Time for unity in America! (better late than never)


Offline Sanguine

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Re: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2019, 09:27:01 AM »
Or listen.  Nothing worse than singing commercials.

The guy in the yellow shirt with the emu.  That's worse.
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Offline Bigun

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Re: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria
« Reply #15 on: August 26, 2019, 09:40:08 AM »
The guy in the yellow shirt with the emu.  That's worse.

 9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000 9999hair out0000

Offline XenaLee

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Re: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria
« Reply #16 on: August 26, 2019, 09:53:52 AM »
The guy in the yellow shirt with the emu.  That's worse.

One of the more stupid ones, for sure.   Makes you wonder.... do these idiots get promoted for their "ideas"?  Astounding that they even get paid.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria
« Reply #17 on: August 26, 2019, 10:01:56 AM »
Quote
The Ottomans had taken Constantinople, and the Sultan had put the Orthodox Church under the jizya. After some decades, the Ukrainian Bishop had made a deal with the Sultan to pay X years worth of jizya (I think X = 30 to 40) in return for being allowed to break away. Thus was born the Russian Orthodox Church, which, in its isolation, developed a unique version of Christianity. It maintained the standard Judeo-Christian narrative that humanity was once high, then there was the Fall, but by doing certain things we get to return to being high again. In the Russian version, however, salvation for mankind is something that occurs not individually, but collectively; most importantly, it is specifically through the capacity of the Russian people to bear immiseration and suffering that the future salvation of all humanity is purchased. That is central to Russian Orthodoxy. The liberal in me says, “If I were a Russian tyrant, that would be a handy theology to have my Church teaching everyone.”

Very interesting, if true.
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." – George Mason, Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 1788

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Online Smokin Joe

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Re: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria
« Reply #18 on: August 27, 2019, 04:38:23 AM »
Very interesting, if true.
Volumes have been written on a subject easy to oversimplify. For a primer, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East%E2%80%93West_Schism
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Offline EdJames

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Re: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria (part Deux added)
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2019, 09:40:52 AM »
Maria Butina and I, Part Deux: Romancing Maria

https://www.deepcapture.com/2019/08/maria-butina-and-i-part-deux-romancing-maria/

Posted on 27 August 2019 by Patrick Byrne

At this point I am going to be discrete, other than to say that contact was re-established with Men in Black (I avoid using the “F” acronym for reasons that will become clear).

Why do I say, “re-established”? Because twice, over the decades, I have had the honor of helping them. Why would a (flag-waving) libertarian ever help feds? I will explain:

1.    I had a great friend named Brian Williams. In 2002 he was murdered. I helped bring the killer to justice, in a manner of speaking. Numerous sensationalist TV reenactments have been made, which should all be skipped. A surprisingly well-written story appeared in Sports Illustrated some years ago (“Lost Soul” by Chris Ballard) about Brian’s life and death that captures Brian’s spirit. It alludes to some minor involvement I had in helping the authorities sort it out. It was my honor to do so.
2.    On August 23, a United States Attorney named Brett Tolman appeared on Fox News with Dan Bongino (a retired federal officer, who was guest hosting for Hannity). At minute 1:25 Mr. Tolman says something about me:

“I know Patrick Byrne. I‘ve known him for years. I spent 45 minutes on the phone with him today talking about it. When he indicates that he has previously worked for the FBI and provided information, he is telling the truth. Back in 2005-2006 I was Chief Counsel at the Senate Judiciary Committee, and he brought to us inside information about manipulation that was going on in Wall Street. It turned out that it was accurate, and it was investigated, and it became part of a much larger investigation. So my experience with him is very fascinating, because while he’s eccentric, he has been accurate historically with me and with others.”

Error 404 (Not Found)!!1


To understand what is going on now, it is not necessary to read all the backstory about Wall Street and me from years ago (but if you wish, you are on the site to do it). Just know this: whenever I told the story publicly, I always left something out. I always said that I had gone to DC in 2005-2006 trying to get help exposing Wall Street but had found it captured, “turtles all the way down.” That was never the full truth. The truth is, the Senate Judiciary Committee was fantastic. Members and staff of both parties were great to me. Like me, they were curious not just about the underlying matter I was bringing to them (which is that I thought we had a crack in the national capital market’s settlement system, and it might quake at any moment: indeed, on October 23, 2008, Greenspan identified “settlement” as one of the three main culprits in the crisis). Like me, they were also curious about the reaction (or lack thereof) on the part of the government that should have been reacting back in 2005-2006. 

That’s because, as the committee overseeing any activity in the USA touched by a criminal or civil penalty, the Senate Judiciary Committee has oversight jurisdiction on everything related to corruption. I swam around on Wall Street 2005-2009 drawing fire from the Establishment so that the FBI could watch who was going after me, and put together the hedge funds, regulators, and journalists who seemed to be in cahoots.

In the autumn of 2009, I was called one morning by a Man in Black, who said words I will treasure to my dying day: “Patrick, the Bureau wishes to thank you for what you have done. It is almost unprecedented. You are going to see handcuffs come out this week. You need to live the rest of your life knowing that everyone you see us arrest suspects your fingerprints are on his problems.”

A few days later, Raj Rajaratnam of Galleon was arrested. He was the first of about 200 indictments (and more than 100 people who went to prison). Take a look at the photos showing perps being walked out of hedge funds in handcuffs. Each was walked out by the same guy, a solid-looking, square-jawed Korean-American FBI agent. That’s the guy who uttered those words to me above. He’s the Eliot Ness of the FBI.

That all happened with the FBI because in 2005 I found a single group in Washington DC that would listen to me and my tales of what I knew was happening on Wall Street: the Senate Judiciary Committee. And on that committee, before he became a US Attorney, was a young Bret Tolman. Without the beard. And he saw what he described above.

So those are the two times I was honored to provide modest help to the Men in Black. 

I intend to be fuzzy about Men in Black, but I would like to be clear about one thing: they are men and women, white, black, Latino, and other — some look like Captain America, some like Serpico, some look like librarians — and I came to respect them in the same way I do the young men or women I see in uniform at airports, trying to make a flight. That sounds funny for a libertarian to say, I suppose, but remember, libertarians like consent of the governed. And once that consent has been found, we like rule of law, because what’s the point of going to all the trouble of finding out what law the governed consent to, if that’s not the law that gets enforced? Lack of rule of law undermines our whole liberal “consent of the governed” thing.

More importantly, 30-35 years ago I wandered around Asia and saw a lot of things. I also studied development economics as a grad student at Stanford. My big takeaways were:

    Economic development is about raising the income of women, not men.
    Without rule of law, economic development occurs in quicksand.
    Liberalism is best.

That it. That’s my 20’s, boiled down.

Popular culture makes fun of federal officers for being strait-laced, stiff, and formal. It’s true they don’t much care about being your friend: they just want the facts. Yet at times that is a relief, such as when your closest friend has disappeared, or when you put together a criminal financial plot that you think may collapse Wall Street. In such times, that is precisely what you want, even if you never knew it before. You learn that you want a formal, stiff, unsmiling character looking at you across a table in gray room with a legal pad. Even though it generally means putting up with getting pushed around and accused of things that had never occurred to you or even would occur to you. It’s the price we pay for rule of law. Try living without it.

Here’s a warning, however, that was passed to me by a lawyer years ago: trying to help feds can be like helping a tiger that has got its paw caught in a trap. So you might just use their quite adequate website, tips.fbi.gov. I never plan on talking to feds again. If I do, I’ll likely be in an orange jumpsuit. But if I do, I want to help them work on the algorithms in that website.

Anyway, my explanation to the people in the Administrative Office of Personnel looking after three million security clearances triggered the following event: the Men in Black and I were back in touch. The details of everything related to how those communications occurred will be omitted (other than to say that, initially, was it partially face-to-face, but by December 2015 it was entirely face-to-face).

All I wanted to know was, if I went to Russia and met with their liberals, would I have to get hassled about it when I returned? And could I introduce her to someone in our foreign policy establishment, like 93-year-old General Vessey? Or need I cut her out of my life?   They seemed to suggest that I should learn more, and then they would decide. But they emphasized that they were not sure. Messages went back and forth for two months.

Meanwhile, Maria was writing me, inviting me to meet in Montenegro, then Rome, Paris, etc. Watching my videos on liberalism. Pretending to fall in love, to create a reason to meet again and talk. But meanwhile, I was being told half-heartedly, “Well maybe it’s OK, but we’re not sure…”

Finally, in September of 2015 I received something that sounded like they wanted me to meet her again. It started occurring to me; “Do they want me to meet her without having to take responsibility? Damn, then are they are going to show up in a year, act shocked, interrogate me endlessly, accuse me of this and that? Screw that, that’s the kind of thing that happened that other time.” 

In an effort to make things clear, I sent a binary message along the lines of: Not wanting to get in a hassle with the U.S. government, I am not going to meet Maria again unless I hear the word, “Greenlight.”

They responded: “Greenlight.”

I was mildly surprised, but pleased.* I have played a minor, minor role in three peace events in my life (and though I critique Chomsky sometimes, the credit for one of them must be given to him and his writings on East Timor). I thought it might be possible that Maria Butina, a liberal from Russia, with all her connections, might be a good person to get to know. I have seen stranger events lead something good – including to peace.

So in September 2015 Maria and I met for a second time in a hotel in New York City, with the idea that we would spend a few days getting to know each other, plan a trip to Russia to talk at their Central Bank on bitcoin and how blockchain will change the world, and to meet her liberal friends in Moscow among the oligarchs.

Of course I got two rooms, but to be consistent with her faux-romantic texts I arranged a two-bedroom suite. She was arriving first, and I assumed that when I arrived, we would laugh about the pretense and take separate rooms.

A gentleman does not normally say, but it would be ridiculous to omit, given how germane it is: when I arrived, Maria made immediately clear that she had not been pretending. She had indeed watched all my videos, and thought I was pretty cool. She, the Greater Moscow Powerlifting Champion (amateur) swept me and my liberalism off my feet. I was helpless, helpless I say….

Well, not really. About the “helpless” part, anyway. The rest is true. And I will say this: Maria is a spectacular woman. An unforgettable woman. Great props to Mother Russia. Respect. A gentleman shouldn’t say but…Wow.

=====================================================

To keep Church Ladies from hammering me on message boards, and because it is relevant: For Maria’s part, she sounded like there were some big-shot Republicans in her life in America she was seeing, she was back and forth to Russia, nothing was too serious, etc. I didn’t really pry.

For my part: I am a lifelong bachelor. I didn’t plan it that way, I’m 56, there were some end-of-life issues since I was 22, and it just turned out that way. I give great tryst. I have no Act III whatsoever, but my Acts I and II are dynamite. So again I find myself saying (because my editor tells me that I sound strange to some): Sorry, but this is just my life. Stuff like this happens to me. All the time, frankly, if I let it. I don’t make the rules.

So at the end of our first three day tryst, I proposed the following: “Look I know you are a young gal, making your way in America. Tell you what: from time to time, when you get tired of hanging out with Republican big-shots, give me a call. Every six weeks or so suits me just fine. Pick a city you want to see while you’re in America, like Miami, or San Francisco, I’ll just send you a ticket and we’ll make a weekend of it.” She smiled in agreement.

=================================================

-- snipped - rest at link above --

@austingirl @Bigun @Smokin Joe @Sanguine @XenaLee

Offline Bigun

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Re: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria
« Reply #20 on: August 28, 2019, 10:15:10 AM »
Thanks @EdJames!  I have taken the time to read the entire thing and watch the embedded video so I will say this.  He (Byrne) is either telling the truth or he is an EXCEPTIONALLY good liar. 

My strong suspicion is that this account is mostly true with the possible incriminating parts modified just enough...

Edit to add a VERY important word I originally left out.
« Last Edit: August 28, 2019, 10:17:04 AM by Bigun »

Offline EdJames

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Re: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria
« Reply #21 on: August 28, 2019, 10:19:27 AM »
Thanks @EdJames!  I have taken the time to read the entire thing and watch the embedded video so I will say this.  He (Byrne) is either telling the truth or he is an EXCEPTIONALLY good liar. 

My strong suspicion is that this account is mostly true with the possible incriminating parts modified just enough...

Edit to add a VERY important word I originally left out.

Yes, I believe that some "modification" was necessary....

(He also asks a lot of good, more broad-based questions, rhetorical questions at this point, but still good, nonetheless....)

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria
« Reply #22 on: August 28, 2019, 10:21:42 AM »
Thanks @EdJames!  I have taken the time to read the entire thing and watch the embedded video so I will say this.  He (Byrne) is either telling the truth or he is an EXCEPTIONALLY good liar. 

My strong suspicion is that this account is mostly true with the possible incriminating parts modified just enough...

Edit to add a VERY important word I originally left out.

Yes, I tend to agree, @Bigun
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." – George Mason, Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 1788

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Offline Bigun

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Re: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria
« Reply #23 on: August 28, 2019, 10:22:08 AM »
Yes, I believe that some "modification" was necessary....

(He also asks a lot of good, more broad-based questions, rhetorical questions at this point, but still good, nonetheless....)

 :yowsa:  pointing-up


Offline austingirl

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Re: Maria Butina and I, Part I: Meeting Maria
« Reply #24 on: August 28, 2019, 10:57:17 AM »
Read the entire article and I'm confused. I thought he claimed earlier that he did not in fact sleep with Butina and now he says he did. Also, I wonder what is going on with his stage IV cancer.

I have to disagree with his assessment that Zero and his family brought class to the White House.

Other than that, I hope his information will help expose the corruption in the Deep State and that it goes to the top. If an operation like this was going on, there is no way Zero wasn't behind it.
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