Author Topic: How to Reduce Gun Violence: Ask Some Scientists  (Read 199 times)

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Offline bigheadfred

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How to Reduce Gun Violence: Ask Some Scientists
« on: August 15, 2019, 07:50:59 PM »
How to Reduce Gun Violence: Ask Some Scientists

Adam Rogers
08.06.19
07:00 am

https://www.wired.com/story/how-to-reduce-gun-violence-ask-some-scientists/

President Trump doesn’t often ask scientists for help, but on Monday he seemed to be breaking from tradition. In a speech Monday about the deadly mass shootings in Dayton and El Paso last week, the president pitched a couple ideas for policies that might reduce the horrifying ubiquity of violent men with guns in public places. The president and other national leaders might take both literally and seriously the spontaneous chant that erupted from the crowd when Ohio governor Mike DeWine appeared at a vigil for the dead in Dayton: Do something.

This is where the science should come in. A straight-up restriction on gun ownership would work, yes, but that’s politically—constitutionally—untenable, at least as the current Supreme Court would have it. But other, more subtle options and interventions are out there. Work on reducing deaths in car crashes doesn’t demand banning all cars; requiring seat belts made a huge difference. So what’s the gun policy equivalent of a seat belt?

To answer that, you need data, hypotheses, experiments. And that’s a problem. Many basic statistics about gun violence stubbornly fail to exist. The science of how many, how often, and how bad hasn’t been done. The studies of what causes people to become violent and use firearms, of who those people are, of how to find them and stop them—they haven’t been done.

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Re: How to Reduce Gun Violence: Ask Some Scientists
« Reply #1 on: August 15, 2019, 07:59:04 PM »
Did you read this before posting it? It's a grabber manifesto.
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
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Offline bigheadfred

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Re: How to Reduce Gun Violence: Ask Some Scientists
« Reply #2 on: August 15, 2019, 08:00:56 PM »
Hey, @Cyber Liberty

This posted in Science over at Wired, but I put it in General. If it needs moved please do so.

Most data you find on this subject is dated. If there is no factual scientific basis for restricting guns, then all the talk of doing so isn't hyperbole. It is hyper bullsh**.


Offline bigheadfred

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Re: How to Reduce Gun Violence: Ask Some Scientists
« Reply #3 on: August 15, 2019, 08:04:31 PM »
Did you read this before posting it? It's a grabber manifesto.

Yeah, I read it.

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Re: How to Reduce Gun Violence: Ask Some Scientists
« Reply #4 on: August 15, 2019, 09:51:22 PM »
Yeah, I read it.
I got past the part about Republicans being science deniers about Global Warming, and up to his brightest star about stopping guns from going out and killing people:  Immediately eliminate all carry, both concealed and open.  He might be a fan of keeping arms, but he's 4-square against bearing them.  His "science" doesn't take any account of the lives saved by law abiding people using guns.  I imagine his analysis of Climate Change is equally sloppy but I didn't spend much time looking at that part, I wanted to know what scientifical idea he had about firearms.

Hyper BS, as you put it.

I guess it's good to know there are people think that way, but I already knew.   :shrug:
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: How to Reduce Gun Violence: Ask Some Scientists
« Reply #5 on: August 16, 2019, 09:16:44 AM »
Hey, @Cyber Liberty

This posted in Science over at Wired, but I put it in General. If it needs moved please do so.

Most data you find on this subject is dated. If there is no factual scientific basis for restricting guns, then all the talk of doing so isn't hyperbole. It is hyper bullsh**.
I have noticed it is really difficult to find data on accidental deaths from firearm misuse/negligence. Everything is lumped together, or parsed by age group to deal with youth, but not out there in a straight up table of what is what.

Suicide is intentional.
Criminal activity is intentional.
Police shootings are intentional.
Self Defense shootings are intentional, even though the situation was likely not desired by the shooter.
Maniacs do their stuff intentionally.
I was looking for accidental/negligent firearm related deaths.

Best numbers I could come up with dealt with a decrease in accidental shootings, putting their number under 500 annually, a number rendered almost statistically insignificant by the intentional use/misuse of firearms.

In the meantime, heart disease, cancer, accidents (161,000), diabetes, stroke, and pulmonary disorders, remain the top killers.

Being a victim of a mass shooting is pretty low (not even on the list).
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Offline bigheadfred

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Re: How to Reduce Gun Violence: Ask Some Scientists
« Reply #6 on: August 16, 2019, 10:31:22 PM »
Read this article in its entirety, @Sanguine

My take is that there is NO statistical data to back any claim by either the grabbers or the keepers to prove the histrionics engendered or garnered by the politicos, the sects, the assholes from shit in to shit out.

A little honesty.

They say the "science is settled" with global warming/climate change.

Apparently, according to this article, there has intentionally been NO science to back claims made regarding guns and violence, or any correlations between race, ethnicity, social structure, or economics

A  little honesty.

All The Powers That Be want is your compliance and acceptance.

WTF was Biden's gaffe? We choose truth over facts?  Oprah said your truth don't mean shit.

I formed my opinion because I did read the entire article before I posted it.

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Re: How to Reduce Gun Violence: Ask Some Scientists
« Reply #7 on: August 16, 2019, 10:38:29 PM »
Read this article in its entirety, @Sanguine

My take is that there is NO statistical data to back any claim by either the grabbers or the keepers to prove the histrionics engendered or garnered by the politicos, the sects, the assholes from shit in to shit out.

A little honesty.

They say the "science is settled" with global warming/climate change.

Apparently, according to this article, there has intentionally been NO science to back claims made regarding guns and violence, or any correlations between race, ethnicity, social structure, or economics

A  little honesty.

All The Powers That Be want is your compliance and acceptance.

WTF was Biden's gaffe? We choose truth over facts?  Oprah said your truth don't mean shit.

I formed my opinion because I did read the entire article before I posted it.

I'll admit I did not read it all.  I usually don't have the time, and sometimes patience is required too, not one of my better qualities. 

There isn't a lot of data but there's some, like Lott's work.  I think the National Government is prohibited from collecting it for political reasons, which is most unhelpful.  Unless you factor in which party has the Presidency when a study is commissioned. 
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
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Offline bigheadfred

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Re: How to Reduce Gun Violence: Ask Some Scientists
« Reply #8 on: August 16, 2019, 10:45:32 PM »
I'll admit I did not read it all.  I usually don't have the time, and sometimes patience is required too, not one of my better qualities. 

There isn't a lot of data but there's some, like Lott's work.  I think the National Government is prohibited from collecting it for political reasons, which is most unhelpful.  Unless you factor in which party has the Presidency when a study is commissioned.

No, the NG isn't prohibited by anything. Heir apparent. It IS all political no matter the party.

What I said. And what I got from the article. Let science provide some HARD stats before they think they change ANY part of the Constitution by fiat.

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Re: How to Reduce Gun Violence: Ask Some Scientists
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2019, 12:18:30 PM »
No, the NG isn't prohibited by anything. Heir apparent. It IS all political no matter the party.

What I said. And what I got from the article. Let science provide some HARD stats before they think they change ANY part of the Constitution by fiat.

Why use stats when emotions work so much better when the Rats stampede the sheep?  I wonder if stats were used to justify prohibition?
Don't call it the "Federal Government," that's an insult to the Founders.  It's a "National Government."
I will NOT comply.
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