Author Topic: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD  (Read 43228 times)

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Offline EdJames

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If the innocent honest man must quietly quit all he has, for peace sake, to him who will lay violent hands upon it, I desire it may be considered, what a kind of peace there will be in the world, which consists only in violence and rapine; and which is to be maintained only for the benefit of robbers and oppressors.

-- John Locke

If you are a serious American citizen that is interested in really understanding what is being proposed in the form of these "red flag" laws and other incursion into our sacred rights, I suggest that you take the time (about 45 minutes) to listen to KrisAnn Hall explain the truth about what is going on.  If you don't have the time at this moment, open the video in another tab, and watch it at your leisure.

If you are a person that is interested in political expediency, I suggest that you also take the time to watch the video, so that you may better understand why you are faced with such vehement opposition by American Patriots that are making a stand to say "enough, is enough."

KrisAnn patiently builds a powerful case starting from the basics of understanding the primary source and essence of our Natural Rights, and our Duties to defend them.  She uses the words of the Founders to explain the reasoning and thought processes that undergirds the construction of the Bill of Rights.  She explains that the sole legitimate basis of government, formed by the people as a community, is to protect these Natural Rights.

She very patiently explains how these "red flag" laws are not merely an attack on our Natural Right to Keep and Bear Arms which is to be protected from deprivation by Amendment II, but that it is only one of a list of the amendments in the Bill of Rights that are being shredded.  The others include: Amendment I, Amendment IV, Amendment V, Amendment VI, and Amendment VII.


Error 404 (Not Found)!!1

Key to the discussion is an understand of James Madison's “Property” Essay from March 29, 1792, placed below for your ready reference:

Quote
This term in its particular application means “that dominion which one man claims and exercises over the external things of the world, in exclusion of every other individual.”

In its larger and juster meaning, it embraces every thing to which a man may attach a value and have a right; and which leaves to every one else the like advantage.

In the former sense, a man’s land, or merchandize, or money is called his property.

In the latter sense, a man has property in his opinions and the free communication of them.

He has a property of peculiar value in his religious opinions, and in the profession and practice dictated by them.

He has a property very dear to him in the safety and liberty of his person.

He has an equal property in the free use of his faculties and free choice of the objects on which to employ them.

In a word, as a man is said to have a right to his property, he may be equally said to have a property in his rights.

Where an excess of power prevails, property of no sort is duly respected. No man is safe in his opinions, his person, his faculties, or his possessions.

Where there is an excess of liberty, the effect is the same, tho’ from an opposite cause.

Government is instituted to protect property of every sort; as well that which lies in various rights of individuals, as that which the term particularly expresses. This being the end of government, that alone is a just government, which impartially secures to every man, whatever is his.

According to this standard of merit, the praise of affording a just security to property, should be sparingly bestowed on a government which, however scrupulously guarding the possessions of individuals, does not protect them in the enjoyment and communication of their opinions, in which they have an equal, and in the estimation of some, a more valuable property.

More sparingly should this praise be allowed to a government, where a man’s religious rights are violated by penalties, or fettered by tests, or taxed by a hierarchy. Conscience is the most sacred of all property; other property depending in part on positive law, the exercise of that, being a natural and unalienable right. To guard a man’s house as his castle, to pay public and enforce private debts with the most exact faith, can give no title to invade a man’s conscience which is more sacred than his castle, or to withhold from it that debt of protection, for which the public faith is pledged, by the very nature and original conditions of the social pact.

That is not a just government, nor is property secure under it, where the property which a man has in his personal safety and personal liberty, is violated by arbitrary seizures of one class of citizens for the service of the rest. A magistrate issuing his warrants to a press gang, would be in his proper functions in Turkey or Indostan, under appellations proverbial of the most compleat despotism.

That is not a just government, nor is property secure under it, where arbitrary restrictions, exemptions, and monopolies deny to part of its citizens that free use of their faculties, and free choice of their occupations, which not only constitute their property in the general sense of the word; but are the means of acquiring property strictly called. What must be the spirit of legislation where a manufacturer of linen cloth is forbidden to bury his own child in a linen shroud, in order to favor his neighbor who manufactures woolen cloth; where the manufacturer and wearer of woolen cloth are again forbidden the economical use of buttons of that material, in favor of the manufacturer of buttons of other materials!

A just security to property is not afforded by that government, under which unequal taxes oppress one species of property and reward another species: where arbitrary taxes invade the domestic sanctuaries of the rich, and excessive taxes grind the faces of the poor; where the keenness and competitions of want are deemed an insufficient spur to labor, and taxes are again applied, by an unfeeling policy, as another spur; in violation of that sacred property, which Heaven, in decreeing man to earn his bread by the sweat of his brow, kindly reserved to him, in the small repose that could be spared from the supply of his necessities.

If there be a government then which prides itself in maintaining the inviolability of property; which provides that none shall be taken directly even for public use without indemnification to the owner, and yet directly violates the property which individuals have in their opinions, their religion, their persons, and their faculties; nay more, which indirectly violates their property, in their actual possessions, in the labor that acquires their daily subsistence, and in the hallowed remnant of time which ought to relieve their fatigues and soothe their cares, the influence will have been anticipated, that such a government is not a pattern for the United States.

If the United States mean to obtain or deserve the full praise due to wise and just governments, they will equally respect the rights of property, and the property in rights: they will rival the government that most sacredly guards the former; and by repelling its example in violating the latter, will make themselves a pattern to that and all other governments.

https://teachingamericanhistory.org/library/document/property/


Learn more: https://krisannehall.com/index.php/liberty-first-university






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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2019, 03:18:23 pm »
At the 8:20 mark in the video she cuts to the chase!  "How do you propose to protect rights if you don't even know what those rights are?"  Paraphrasing I'm sure but that's the gist of it.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2019, 03:22:26 pm »
"What we don't know will enslave our children."  KrisAnne Hall  June, 2019

To which I say  :amen:
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline EdJames

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2019, 03:33:07 pm »
@Bigun

Replying to both of your posts above.

That is why it is so vital, at this late hour, for all of us to understand the essence of these attacks.  Whether they are coming from the true marxists as the next step of their plan, or from those that are merely ignorant and are placing political expediency above all.

Is it too late?  I don't know, but we will never find out if we don't start trying!!


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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2019, 03:33:14 pm »
"What we don't know will enslave our children."  KrisAnne Hall  June, 2019

To which I say  :amen:

I do too!

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2019, 03:38:55 pm »
@Bigun

Replying to both of your posts above.

That is why it is so vital, at this late hour, for all of us to understand the essence of these attacks.  Whether they are coming from the true marxists as the next step of their plan, or from those that are merely ignorant and are placing political expediency above all.

Is it too late?  I don't know, but we will never find out if we don't start trying!!

For God's sake man! Why do you think I have spent so much of my time and treasuer trying to educate people about the Marxist Income tax and the IRS @EdJames

(I know that you weren't directing that solely at me.)

I love KrisAnne but I just can't listen to her speak.  Her voice is so high pitched and my hearing is so bad now.  Nothing to do with what she is saying.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Sanguine

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2019, 03:46:19 pm »
For God's sake man! Why do you think I have spent so much of my time and treasuer trying to educate people about the Marxist Income tax and the IRS @EdJames

(I know that you weren't directing that solely at me.)

I love KrisAnne but I just can't listen to her speak.  Her voice is so high pitched and my hearing is so bad now.  Nothing to do with what she is saying.

@Bigun, you probably already know this, but just in case, you can go to the little settings icon in the Youtube and listen to it at a slower speed which brings her voice down to comprehensible. 
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 03:55:15 pm by Sanguine »

Offline EdJames

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2019, 03:48:19 pm »
For God's sake man! Why do you think I have spent so much of my time and treasuer trying to educate people about the Marxist Income tax and the IRS @EdJames

(I know that you weren't directing that solely at me.)

I love KrisAnne but I just can't listen to her speak.  Her voice is so high pitched and my hearing is so bad now.  Nothing to do with what she is saying.

Ahh, not directing that you at all!  It is my habit to riff off of others' posts to further the conversation.

Sorry that you are unable to listen to her speak, but without any sense of hyperbole, YOU could have written her script for her; I am sure that it doesn't contain much that you haven't already heard...

Hopefully others will not have similar problems with her voice.

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2019, 03:53:48 pm »
The population is woefully ignorant of history and our founding documents. KrisAnne is right about that. Thanks for the post @EdJames
Principles matter. Words matter.

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2019, 03:57:56 pm »
How can anyone not realize that red flag laws not only impact the 2A, but  Amendment I, Amendment IV, Amendment V, Amendment VI, and Amendment VII???

I've said it before; ALL of our rights our dependent upon the Second Amendment.  If we lose the Second Amendment, what is to stop Big Brother from stripping us of our other rights?

How do people not see this??

I am still convinced that these mass shootings were in some way orchestrated by the left in order to start dismantling the 2A.  If anything, they are promoting fear.  They themselves have promoted and condoned protests, uprisings, smear tactics, etc., against conservatism, patriotism, exceptionalism, and our Constitution.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2019, 04:07:51 pm »
@Bigun, you probably already know this, but just in case, you can go to the little settings icon in the Youtube and listen to it at a slower speed which brings her voice down to comprehensible.

Actually, I did NOT know that @Sanguine. Thanks for the tip!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2019, 04:10:55 pm »
@Bigun

Replying to both of your posts above.

That is why it is so vital, at this late hour, for all of us to understand the essence of these attacks.  Whether they are coming from the true marxists as the next step of their plan, or from those that are merely ignorant and are placing political expediency above all.

Is it too late?  I don't know, but we will never find out if we don't start trying!!

Good video.   Thanks!    888high58888
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2019, 04:13:33 pm »
Ahh, not directing that you at all!  It is my habit to riff off of others' posts to further the conversation.

Sorry that you are unable to listen to her speak, but without any sense of hyperbole, YOU could have written her script for her; I am sure that it doesn't contain much that you haven't already heard...

Hopefully others will not have similar problems with her voice.

Thanks @EdJames!  You are much too kind.  I also hope her message gets widely disseminated because it damned well needs to be.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2019, 04:15:34 pm »
The population is woefully ignorant of history and our founding documents. KrisAnne is right about that. Thanks for the post @EdJames

Oh hell yes!  And that is FAR from accidental @austingirl.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2019, 04:28:07 pm »
"What we don't know will enslave our children."  KrisAnne Hall  June, 2019

To which I say  :amen:

Hah!    If you truly believe that the 2A is the bulwark that secures our freedoms,  then don't do stupid stuff that will result in the demise of the 2A.

Too many here are too stubborn to believe it,  but the individual RKBA - the right that secures your natural right to defend you person and your personal property -  exists by reason of a 5-4 SCOTUS majority.  That's it.  That's all.   The decision affirming the individual right was joined by each conservative SCOTUS member,  and rejected by every liberal one.   

There is no question in my mind that if a Dem President and Senate is elected in 2020,  and Clarence Thomas or another conservative steps down,  then the Heller decision will be overturned and the 2A interpreted to not secure the individual right.  States will be free to ban whole classes of weapons and otherwise prohibit that what you take for granted now.    That is what is at stake in this election.  And yet many are promising to stay home if the President, in reaction to a wave of mass shootings,  dares to support doing something about it that would inconvenience gun owners in a minor way.   

Gun owners have the political clout to secure the Presidency for the Democrats,  and some appear willing and even eager to do that.   But you do so at your peril.  Your rights hang by a thread. 

Don't be fools     
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 04:30:22 pm by Jazzhead »
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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2019, 04:31:58 pm »
Hah!    If you truly believe that the 2A is the bulwark that secures our freedoms,  then don't do stupid stuff that will result in the demise of the 2A.

Too many here are too stubborn to believe it,  but the individual RKBA - the right that secures your natural right to defend you person and your personal property -  exists by reason of a 5-4 SCOTUS majority.  That's it.  That's all.   The decision affirming the individual right was joined by each conservative SCOTUS member,  and rejected by every liberal one.   

There is no question in my mind that if a Dem President and Senate is elected in 2020,  and Clarence Thomas or another conservative steps down,  then the Heller decision will be overturned and the 2A interpreted to not secure the individual right.  States will be free to ban whole classes of weapons and otherwise prohibit that what you take for granted now.    That is what is at stake in this election.  And yet many are promising to stay home if the President, in reaction to a wave of mass shootings,  dares to support doing something about it that would inconvenience gun owners in a minor way.   

Gun owners have the political clout to secure the Presidency for the Democrats,  and some appear willing and even eager to do that.   But you do so at your peril.  Your rights hang by a thread. 

Don't be fools   

I'm not going round and round the mulberry bush with you on this thread @Jazzhead<Personal insult removed> and almost everyone here knows it.
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 04:46:25 pm by Mod5 »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2019, 04:34:13 pm »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #17 on: August 12, 2019, 04:37:11 pm »
I'm not going round and round the mulberry bush with you on this thread @Jazzhead!  YOU are FOS and almost everyone here knows it.

<Personal insult and trolling removed>
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 04:47:53 pm by Mod5 »
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #18 on: August 12, 2019, 04:40:30 pm »
<Personal insult and trolling removed>

Your opinion is noted and fully rejected.  Please don't bother defending anything on behalf of fools like me! We will muddle along without it!
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 04:48:24 pm by Mod5 »
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2019, 04:43:33 pm »
How can anyone not realize that red flag laws not only impact the 2A, but  Amendment I, Amendment IV, Amendment V, Amendment VI, and Amendment VII???

@libertybele

Because the way they are framed is designed as an appeal to emotions over common sense.  Ignore what you see and go with what you feel based off the emotional appeal we're presenting to you.
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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2019, 04:44:15 pm »
The population is woefully ignorant of history and our founding documents. KrisAnne is right about that. Thanks for the post @EdJames

 888high58888

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #21 on: August 12, 2019, 04:44:46 pm »
Good video.   Thanks!    888high58888

Share it far and wide!!

 888high58888

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #22 on: August 12, 2019, 04:45:10 pm »
Hah!    If you truly believe that the 2A is the bulwark that secures our freedoms,  then don't do stupid stuff that will result in the demise of the 2A.

Too many here are too stubborn to believe it,  but the individual RKBA - the right that secures your natural right to defend you person and your personal property -  exists by reason of a 5-4 SCOTUS majority.  That's it.  That's all.   The decision affirming the individual right was joined by each conservative SCOTUS member,  and rejected by every liberal one.   

There is no question in my mind that if a Dem President and Senate is elected in 2020,  and Clarence Thomas or another conservative steps down,  then the Heller decision will be overturned and the 2A interpreted to not secure the individual right.  States will be free to ban whole classes of weapons and otherwise prohibit that what you take for granted now.    That is what is at stake in this election. And yet many are promising to stay home if the President, in reaction to a wave of mass shootings,  dares to support doing something about it that would inconvenience gun owners in a minor way.   

Gun owners have the political clout to secure the Presidency for the Democrats,  and some appear willing and even eager to do that.   But you do so at your peril.  Your rights hang by a thread. 

Don't be fools   

Exactly.  Don't be a fool @Jazzhead to not understand that the very people promoting red flag laws are the liberals who want to take away gun rights and impose gun confiscation that WILL enable them to collapse this Republic.

As for my response to you suggesting that I not vote my conscience -- well, I can't respond as I'd like -- it's not allowed in this forum.    888mouth
 
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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #23 on: August 12, 2019, 04:45:44 pm »
Thanks @EdJamesYou are much too kind.  I also hope her message gets widely disseminated because it damned well needs to be.

You know me, I call a "spade," a "spade!"

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Re: The Truly Insidious Nature of Red Flag Laws - KrisAnne Hall, JD
« Reply #24 on: August 12, 2019, 04:47:37 pm »
How can anyone not realize that red flag laws not only impact the 2A, but  Amendment I, Amendment IV, Amendment V, Amendment VI, and Amendment VII???

I've said it before; ALL of our rights our dependent upon the Second Amendment.  If we lose the Second Amendment, what is to stop Big Brother from stripping us of our other rights?

How do people not see this??

I am still convinced that these mass shootings were in some way orchestrated by the left in order to start dismantling the 2A.  If anything, they are promoting fear.  They themselves have promoted and condoned protests, uprisings, smear tactics, etc., against conservatism, patriotism, exceptionalism, and our Constitution.

Because all of the knowledge and wisdom that our Founders insisted that we retain as a citizenry has long been flushed down the drain (deliberately!).

@libertybele