Author Topic: Hong Kong/Mainland China Crisis thread  (Read 1395 times)

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Offline TomSea

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Re: Hong Kong/Mainland China Crisis thread
« Reply #75 on: August 14, 2019, 05:54:04 AM »
No way would I take the side of Beijing but on reading about Tiananmen some 2 months ago, one of the reporters said he knew there'd be a problem when there was a sort of statue of Liberty put up in the square by the protesters. We had photos posted of that statue about 6 weeks ago.

So, a lot has been in the news about some protesters waving American flags and I read even saying the pledge of allegiance and singing the national anthem, that is all good... but would we like it in the same vein, if folks here waved the Chinese Communist Republic's flag or the Mexican flag? I think we know the answer. I'm just stating that this might be a bit antagonistic.

Some stories coming out:
Quote
'Frightened, angry and exhausted': Hong Kong protesters apologise for airport violence
Protest group asks for understanding after clashes in which a reporter and policeman were attacked

Hong Kong protesters have apologised to the public for the chaos caused at the city’s airport, one of the world’s busiest transport hubs, after demonstrations brought flights to a halt for two consecutive days and stranded thousands of visitors.

One protest group asked in a lengthy statement for understanding, saying protesters chose the airport as a forum for demonstration only because they no longer felt safe protesting in public due to police violence.

The group apologised for clashes on Wednesday, in which police armed with batons and pepper spray clashed with thousands of protesters, saying that “after months of prolonged resistance, we are frightened, angry and exhausted. Some of us have become easily agitated and over-reacted last night.”

More at: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/aug/14/frightened-angry-and-exhausted-hong-kong-protesters-apologise-for-airport-violence

OK, maybe that eases some of that chaos yesterday which it was. Hopefully, things will be much more orderly today.

Here is something from the enemy press, which I almost might consider "Zero Hedge" to be but worth a mention nonetheless:

Quote
Journalist For China's Global Times Brutally 'Arrested' By HK Airport Protesters
by Tyler Durden
Tue, 08/13/2019 - 13:21

Chinese state media outlet Global Times has reported one of its journalists had been seized and bound in an 'arrest' by anti-Beijing Hong Kong protesters which had occupied the city's international airport.

Global Times' editor-in-chief Hu Xijin made an appeal on social media Tuesday for the protesters to release the reporter, saying he was only there to cover the demonstrations and must not be harmed. He also called on western journalists to intervene in the situation.



Hu Xijin confirmed the identity of the man seen in the video being bound with multiple zip ties with his arms placed above his head.

Read more at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2019-08-13/journalist-chinas-global-times-brutally-arrested-hk-airport-protesters

Sometimes, I'd skip zero-hedge altogether but they might have a good piece now and then. I'd think the protesters should not be doing things like this.

Quote
China-US News
U.S. Senator Warns China on Hong Kong Trade Status If It Intervenes in Protests
By Reuters
August 14, 2019 Updated: August 14, 2019


U.S. Senator Ben Cardin (D-MD) speaks with reporters ahead of the weekly policy luncheons on Capitol Hill in Wash, U.S., May 7, 2019. (Aaron P. Bernstein/Reuters)

A prominent U.S. senator warned China on Aug. 13 Hong Kong could lose its special U.S. trade status if Beijing intervenes directly to crack down on increasingly violent pro-democracy protests in the city.

A leading Republican also said the Trump administration must make clear to Beijing it would face “profound consequences,” including sanctions, if it intervened directly.

“I can assure you that if China comes down hard on the protesters that there will be action in Congress to enforce the autonomy agreements that were entered into that are part of the special recognition of Hong Kong,” Senator Ben Cardin told Reuters. He said such action had bipartisan support.

More at: https://www.theepochtimes.com/u-s-senator-warns-china-on-hong-kong-trade-status-if-it-intervenes-in-protests_3041360.html

Okay, it's been remarked how the Dems, some or a lot of them, are trying to shove socialism on us, so here, they are upset about China? Something to think about.

But that's a fairly good roundup of the latest events, hopefully, things will be more subdued today I'd say.
« Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 05:55:20 AM by TomSea »

Offline TomSea

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Re: Hong Kong/Mainland China Crisis thread
« Reply #76 on: August 14, 2019, 06:08:48 AM »
Useful article on some background here, so, in 28 years, Hong Kong reverts back to China? Even that doesn't sound that long of an amount of time from now. The original HK deal was 50 years, here is some detail:

Bloomberg:

Quote
quicktake
Hong Kong’s Autonomy
By David Tweed and Natalie Lung
Updated on June 9, 2019, 8:54 PM CDT

Hong Kong is an island of free speech and civil liberties in an authoritarian sea. It is not, however, a democracy. Citizens have never had the power to choose their top leader, neither as part of China since 1997 nor as an outpost of the British Empire for 156 years before that.

...

The Background


The 1984 Sino-British power transfer agreement specified that China would give Hong Kong a “high degree of autonomy” for 50 years under a principle the Chinese call “one country, two systems.” Any talk of independence was on the  fringes: More than 90 percent of the city’s nearly 7.5 million residents are ethnic Chinese with family ties to the mainland, which provides most of Hong Kong’s water and food as well as about half its trade.

More at: https://www.bloomberg.com/quicktake/hong-kongs-autonomy

So, in affect, in 1997, Hong Kong was "given back" to China with definite conditions, the main one being Hong Kong is largely autonomous for the first 50 years per how it is being given.

But these protesters, youthful who will surely just age in 28 years when the give-back is complete and those that come after them, I don't think any of them will care for the People's Republic of China as it stands now. China could change perhaps. Complex situation and as the article states, a big portion of HK residents seem to have ties to the mainland and the mainland seems to provide the city with water and other necessities.

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Re: Hong Kong/Mainland China Crisis thread
« Reply #77 on: August 14, 2019, 08:04:38 AM »
Nice to see Trump standing up for freedom.

Oh, wait, .....

Sad to see isn’t it?
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Offline TomSea

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Re: Hong Kong/Mainland China Crisis thread
« Reply #78 on: August 14, 2019, 11:11:57 PM »
Daily Signal is Heritage Foundation:
Quote
What Hong Kong Unrest Tells Us About China’s Plans for the Rest of the World

James Carafano / @JJCarafano / August 14, 2019



The outside world can do little to assure the future of freedom in Hong Kong beyond making the case that preserving the principles of liberty are at stake. Nevertheless, the plight of that territory’s more than 7 million souls can teach us an important lesson about what China has in mind for the rest of the world. It is not good.

For starters, the continuing protests speak volumes about China’s commitment to “one country, two systems.” When the British transferred sovereignty over Hong Kong to China in 1997, Beijing agreed to this arrangement. It guaranteed that Hong Kong would be allowed to maintain its own governance and economic system.

The Hong Kong system—one of great economic freedom—has produced tremendous economic success. But economic freedom is no more popular than political freedom among the Chinese Communist Party. And in recent years, Chinese authorities have been encroaching on the rights supposedly guaranteed to Hong Kongers under the “one country, two systems” agreement.

Read more at: https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/08/14/what-hong-kong-unrest-tells-us-about-chinas-plans-for-the-rest-of-the-world/

Author James Jay Carafano,  https://twitter.com/JJCarafano

Well, I've seen him say quite a few good things.

Offline TomSea

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Re: Hong Kong/Mainland China Crisis thread
« Reply #79 on: August 14, 2019, 11:39:46 PM »
Perhaps the comments are mild but Trump finally did speak. For all I know, the GOPers/Admin could have been letting Graham and Rubio and McCarthy and anyone make the commentary while the Pres. kept a low profile. I do think they do teamwork sometimes, I'm not saying that is the case here.
Quote
Business News
August 14, 2019 / 5:51 PM / Updated 4 hours ago
Trump says China should treat Hong Kong 'humanely' before trade deal can be agreed

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump said on Wednesday that China wants to make a trade deal but it should treat Hong Kong “humanely” first, explicitly tying a trade agreement to a peaceful resolution of pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong.

“Of course China wants to make a deal. Let them work humanely with Hong Kong first!” Trump said on Twitter.

“I have ZERO doubt that if President Xi (Jinping) wants to quickly and humanely solve the Hong Kong problem, he can do it. Personal meeting?” Trump said.

Read more at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trade-china-trump-idUSKCN1V42BL

Say it's mild or too little to late, I think this is probably good enough.

Offline TomSea

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Re: Hong Kong/Mainland China Crisis thread
« Reply #80 on: August 15, 2019, 06:51:30 AM »
Andy McCarthy:

Quote
Andy McCarthy
@AndrewCMcCarthy
·
8h
Presidencies are not defined by BS like anthem-kneeling. We can handle that, thank you very much. We have a POTUS not for kulturkampf but to act for US in the world. Every now and then there’s a moment: Are you gonna be Reagan/Poland 1981, or Obama/Iran 2009? That’s Hong Kong.

https://twitter.com/AndrewCMcCarthy/status/1161818831272185856

Quote
Andy McCarthy
@AndrewCMcCarthy
History rhyming?:  So kids, last time I voted for a Dem was 1992 — Bush-41 post-Tiananmen repulsed me, enough to hope Clinton’s ‘coddling dictators’ rhetoric was sincere. I was 33-yr-old conservative. Now, I read Trump on Xi and think: This could happen again ...
8:16 PM · Aug 14, 2019·Twitter for iPad

https://twitter.com/AndrewCMcCarthy/status/1161808803194712064

Quote
Hong Kong protests: Trump offers to meet with China's Xi to resolve crisis

United States President Donald Trump has suggested that China should deal with protests in Hong Kong "humanely" before making a trade deal with the US.https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/15/china/trump-xi-hong-kong-intl-hnk/index.html

There seems to have been a turnaround but I don't know for certain. Are these pundits following the last news cycle still? Are they not updated? Let's see how this goes now.

BTW, I saw an editorial too, "Hong Kong is not Tiananmen (for now)"... so, all of this was pretty alarming when it hit the media hard about 2 days ago I'd believe. It seems to have dissipated mostly, CNN even pulling their live blog coverage though, they have another page for updates.

https://www.cnn.com/specials/asia/hong-kong-protests-intl-hnk

Original live coverage: https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/hong-kong-protests-airport-chaos-intl-hnk/index.html

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Re: Hong Kong/Mainland China Crisis thread
« Reply #81 on: August 15, 2019, 03:09:37 PM »
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

If President Xi would meet directly and personally with the protesters, there would be a happy and enlightened ending to the Hong Kong problem. I have no doubt!

9:04 AM · Aug 15, 2019·Twitter for iPhone



He must’ve gotten this idea there would be a happy ending, after a meeting with the Chinese people, from Robert Kraft.
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Re: Hong Kong/Mainland China Crisis thread
« Reply #82 on: August 15, 2019, 05:47:55 PM »
Donald J. Trump
@realDonaldTrump

If President Xi would meet directly and personally with the protesters, there would be a happy and enlightened ending to the Hong Kong problem. I have no doubt!

9:04 AM · Aug 15, 2019·Twitter for iPhone



He must’ve gotten this idea there would be a happy ending, after a meeting with the Chinese people, from Robert Kraft.

At this point he's running the risk of looking as weak on Hong Kong as Obama looked on Iran and Egypt.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline TomSea

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Quote
Pro-China rally in Melbourne condemning Hong Kong protests delayed over fake council permit
By Bang Xiao and Echo Hui

A pro-China rally planned for Saturday in Melbourne to condemn the clashes in Hong Kong has been postponed after a letter claiming to be an event permit from the Melbourne City Council was confirmed to be fake.
Quote
Key points:

    Sydney's pro-China protests will go ahead at Belmore Park on Saturday
    Chinese media has called the fake council permits "a trap" for pro-China protesters
    It's still unclear who created the fake permit letter and their intent

A well-known local Chinese media outlet, Australian Red Scarf, first announced the pro-Beijing protests in Melbourne on their WeChat account last Friday, accompanied by an image of a letter saying the council approved the "Support One China Principle" event to be held at the State Library in Melbourne.

About 100 people were expected to gather in front of the State Library in the morning, and countered by a collective of pro-democracy groups including Hong Kong, Uyghur and Tibet activists.

Read more at; https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-08-16/pro-china-protest-delayed-over-fake-melbourne-council-permit/11416848

https://twitter.com/badiucao/status/1162329296481878017
If one is interested, I can't clearly tell if these people are pro-Chinese/pro-Hong Kong... Chinese flag with "Free Hong Kong"...

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Hong Kong/Mainland China Crisis thread
« Reply #84 on: August 16, 2019, 12:19:58 PM »
Brian Sullivan
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1h
So literally moments ago this happened.  Crowd leaving Hong Kong rally and the Star Spangled Banner began playing.

Video:  https://twitter.com/i/status/1162368819026771970
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Re: Hong Kong/Mainland China Crisis thread
« Reply #85 on: August 16, 2019, 12:36:59 PM »

Offline Bill Cipher

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Offline TomSea

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Re: Hong Kong/Mainland China Crisis thread
« Reply #87 on: August 16, 2019, 02:43:37 PM »
A 91 year old tycoon published 2 full-page messages over there today addressed to the public and protesters.

Quote
Hong Kong Tycoon Warns Protesters and Beijing Against Violence
www.wsj.com

The ads by a businessman who made a fortune navigating the tricky politics of Hong Kong and Beijing followed a week of some of the worst incidents of violence in more than two months of demonstrations.

Police shocked the city last weekend with fierce baton charges and new tactics, including disguising officers as protesters to make surprise arrests. Protesters then turned public opinion against themselves Tuesday night by beating and tying up two men from mainland China in a bout of mob justice at the airport.

Meanwhile, Chinese paramilitary police and armored personnel carriers massed across the border from Hong Kong in what the Global Times, a state-run tabloid, called “a clear warning to the Hong Kong rioters.”

https://www.wsj.com/articles/hong-kong-tycoon-warns-protesters-and-beijing-against-violence-11565957179

Offline TomSea

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Re: Hong Kong/Mainland China Crisis thread
« Reply #88 on: August 16, 2019, 10:29:46 PM »
In a nutshell, theepochtimes.com will have some live streaming per link one (3rd link seems to say, if there is a major crackdow may be this weekend and they are about 12 hours ahead of us_ :

Quote
HK CURRENT AFFAIRS
Hong Kong Protesters Hoping For a Record Turnout This Weekend, Events to be Live-Streamed on Epoch Times Website
BY EPOCH TIMES STAFF
August 16, 2019 Updated: August 16, 2019

https://www.theepochtimes.com/hong-kong-protesters-hoping-for-a-record-turnout-this-weekend-events-to-be-live-streamed-on-epoch-times-website_3044972.html

Epoch Times had a humble beginning with the Falun Gong, now, I think for example, some conservative pundits like Larry Elder has a show... they've grown to be somewhat influential.
Quote

Pro-democracy protesters hold signs as they attend a rally in Hong Kong on Aug. 16, 2019. (Manan Vatsyayana/AFP/Getty Images)

https://www.theepochtimes.com/hong-kong-nears-an-abyss_3045485.html

Quote
HK CURRENT AFFAIRS
China Expert Warns Hongkongers Beijing Could Launch an Attack on Protesters at This Weekend’s Rally
The Chinese regime has three methods to quell the relentless protests
BY OLIVIA LI, EPOCH TIMES
August 16, 2019 Updated: August 16, 2019

https://www.theepochtimes.com/china-expert-warns-hongkongers-beijing-could-launch-an-attack-on-protesters-at-this-weekends-rally_3045205.html


Offline TomSea

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Re: Hong Kong/Mainland China Crisis thread
« Reply #89 on: August 17, 2019, 11:52:37 AM »
Quote
Hong Kong protesters took their organizing principle from Bruce Lee. Now some are having second thoughts


A tourist gives her luggage to security guards as she tries to enter the departures area Aug. 13 during protests at Hong Kong’s international airport.
(Philip Fong / AFP/Getty Images
)


By Alice SuChina Correspondent
Aug. 16, 2019
6:37 PM
HONG KONG —

The protester felt torn as an elderly Australian woman in a wheelchair grabbed his hand and asked for help.

She was trying to get home and wanted assistance navigating through the thousands of demonstrators at the Hong Kong International Airport to reach her gate.

If he were in charge, he would have let her pass.

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2019-08-16/de-escalation-becomes-difficult-among-hong-kong-protesters-who-refuse-to-be-divided

So, protests have already started today, a teachers group I understand....

I also heard about this, I didn't know, she is supporting the crackdown:

Quote
Calls To Boycott The New "Mulan" After Its Star Spoke In Support Of Hong Kong Police
By Michael Blackmon



Six months before the release of Disney’s Mulan, the live-action film is already the subject of calls for a boycott after its Chinese American star, Liu Yifei, posted in support of the authorities' crackdown on pro-democracy protests in Hong Kong.

Liu, who also goes by the name Crystal Liu, will star in the title role of Mulan when the film is released in March. But on Wednesday, the star posted an image on Weibo taken from People’s Daily, a newspaper that acts as the mouthpiece of the Chinese Communist Party.

"I support Hong Kong's police, you can beat me up now," Liu wrote. "What a shame for Hong Kong."

More: https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/michaelblackmon/mulan-hong-kong-liu-yifei-crystal
« Last Edit: August 17, 2019, 11:57:20 AM by TomSea »

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Re: Hong Kong/Mainland China Crisis thread
« Reply #90 on: August 17, 2019, 01:05:32 PM »
In that case it needs to be a strongly worded joint statement by Trump and Boris Johnson.

No one is watching this closer right now than the Tiawanese.  I bet their fears about being thrown under the bus by Trump have jumped 10 fold in the past few weeks.
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Re: Hong Kong/Mainland China Crisis thread
« Reply #91 on: August 17, 2019, 03:14:07 PM »
No one is watching this closer right now than the Tiawanese.  I bet their fears about being thrown under the bus by Trump have jumped 10 fold in the past few weeks.

Probably more like 100 fold since China has those man made island defensive barriers in that 9 dash line area to prevent the U.S. or anyone else from coming to Taiwan's rescue.

Add that and Trump's silence on the situation in Hong Kong...I imagine the Generals of the defense forces in Taiwan and their civilian counterparts are burning some serious midnight oil right now.

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline Bill Cipher

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Re: Hong Kong/Mainland China Crisis thread
« Reply #92 on: August 17, 2019, 03:37:59 PM »
No one is watching this closer right now than the Tiawanese.  I bet their fears about being thrown under the bus by Trump have jumped 10 fold in the past few weeks.

That is probably part of China’s end game.  Trump is definitely not playing even one dimensional chess here. 

Offline TomSea

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Re: Hong Kong/Mainland China Crisis thread
« Reply #93 on: August 18, 2019, 10:16:48 AM »
Quote
It's a summer of unrest in Hong Kong, with thousands of protesters taking to the streets every week.
https://www.cnn.com/specials/asia/hong-kong-protests-intl-hnk

Thousands out there today, a good cross-section of people, peaceful protests, rain early on. No apparent problems have I seen.


https://twitter.com/ExploreHongKong/status/1163090642446086145/photo/1

I don't see how they can ever gain their full-independence, even considering that they are officially handed back in 2047...and these years until then, are semi-autonomous. One certainly doesn't begrudge them not wanting to be part of the People's Republic of China.  Their struggle to me, seems futile somewhat.

https://twitter.com/search?q=%23HongKong&src=typed_query

UPDATE: Reports now saying 1.7 million protesters today.
https://www.cnn.com/asia/live-news/hong-kong-protest-aug-18-intl-hnk/h_0b92e37d7449965e475c6a7a26c63715
https://www.stltoday.com/news/world/the-latest-organizers-say-million-at-hong-kong-rally/article_e54a86d0-bb23-56ec-b786-264c9052aa41.html
« Last Edit: August 18, 2019, 12:34:46 PM by TomSea »

Offline TomSea

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Re: Hong Kong/Mainland China Crisis thread
« Reply #94 on: Today at 12:15:27 PM »
Quote
China lashes out at Taiwan over Hong Kong asylum offer
KELVIN CHAN and YANAN WANG

HONG KONG (AP) — China lashed out at Taiwan on Monday over its offer of political asylum to participants in Hong Kong's pro-democracy protest movement, a day after hundreds of thousands of people marched peacefully in the latest massive demonstration in the Chinese territory.

The government of Taiwan, a self-ruled island that China considers its own territory, strongly supports the protests, and Hong Kong students in Taiwan held events over the weekend expressing their backing. Taiwan's president made the asylum offer last month, though it's not clear if requests have been received.

Taiwan lacks a formal legal mechanism for assessing and granting asylum requests, although it has granted residency to several vocal opponents of the Chinese government.

Read more at: https://news.yahoo.com/china-lashes-taiwan-over-hong-051547548.html

This would be great news!!

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Re: Hong Kong/Mainland China Crisis thread
« Reply #95 on: Today at 12:37:39 PM »
This would be great news!!


Not especially. As the story says, Taiwan has no legal mechanism to grant them asylum. Besides, China considers both to be part of them, anyway. It creates the position where Taiwan can be declared to be fomenting rebellion. It’s just a matter of time before there is a clash between Taiwan and the mainland. This could just speed things up.
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