Author Topic: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership  (Read 5376 times)

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Online Elderberry

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Military.com By Richard Sisk 8/5/2019

President Donald Trump said Monday that he supported the so-called "red flag" laws on gun sales and ownership that have drawn criticism for their potential impact on the 2nd Amendment rights of veterans.

In a 10-minute national address, Trump pledged to act "with urgent resolve" to curb gun violence and prevent mass shootings in response to the killings of at least 31 people over the weekend in El Paso, Texas, and Dayton, Ohio. "We can and will stop this evil contagion," Trump said.

"That is why I have called for red flag laws, also known as extreme risk protection orders" to keep weapons out of the hands of those who may pose a risk to themselves or others, Trump said.

Such laws could be used to "identify mentally disturbed individuals who may commit acts of violence and make sure those people not only get treatment, but, when necessary, involuntary confinement," Trump said. "Mental illness and hatred pulls the trigger, not the gun."

He said he had also directed the Justice Department to work with local authorities to develop "tools that can detect mass shooters before they strike."

In the absence of federal red flag laws, at least 16 states and the District of Columbia have enacted their own versions which enable family members or police to obtain court orders blocking access to firearms for those who may be a risk to themselves or others.

More: https://www.military.com/daily-news/2019/08/05/trump-backs-red-flag-laws-could-impact-veterans-gun-ownership.html
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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #1 on: August 12, 2019, 12:33:35 PM »
@sneakypete

Is this a "bald faced lie" as well?
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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #2 on: August 12, 2019, 02:15:38 PM »
Thanks for your leadership on this issue, Mr. President.   :patriot:

Don't waver in the face of the gun extremists.   
"He was born poor, died rich, and never hurt anyone along the way"

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2019, 02:20:24 PM »
Thanks for your leadership on this issue, Mr. President.   :patriot:

Don't waver in the face of the gun extremists.

 *****rollingeyes*****

Trolls gonna troll. 
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #4 on: August 12, 2019, 02:21:07 PM »
Thanks for your leadership on this issue, Mr. President.   :patriot:

Don't waver in the face of the gun extremists.

How is punishing law abiding citizens and violating the Constitution "leadership"?
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2019, 02:25:19 PM »
If someone helps a veteran with their VA benefits, the veteran can be reported to NICS. Just because someone helped them. It’s wrong on so many levels. And the weapons can be kept for up to a year, sometimes longer. It’s difficult to get them back, even if the situation that prompted it was only a temporary one.

Why does Jazzy hate veterans so much?
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #6 on: August 12, 2019, 02:45:13 PM »
Getting all worked up due to an article that really doesn't tell us anything specific and is from six days ago    *****rollingeyes*****.   
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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #7 on: August 12, 2019, 02:52:05 PM »
Getting all worked up due to an article that really doesn't tell us anything specific and is from six days ago    *****rollingeyes*****.

It's an important and really an aspect of the Red Flag laws that isn't talked about.

As an example...let's say I go to behavioral health to talk with someone about how do deal with an issue with a coworker in my unit...there's a series of questions you have to answer via computer when you check in for your appointment...and I happen to answer some of those questions (ex: "How often in the last 7 days have you felt no excitement about work"  "How often in the last 7 days have you felt little joy in activities you normally enjoy) in a way that triggers in the computer and alerts my health provider...that could be used as the impetus to seize my guns and make it damn near impossible to get back.

All because I just wanted to talk to someone to figure out a better way to handle a stressful situation.

Now imagine if a soldier had been trained for PTSD...or a traumatic brain injury due to an IED in Iraq or Afghanistan?  Should they be punished after everything is good for a brief moment in time when they had no choice but to be treated?

What about amputees who have to see psych services as part of their treatment at a Warrior Transition battalion while they heal?

They...by the current text in the red flag laws are prime candidates for having weapons they own seized because they are considered "high risk".

Where does it end?  Where is the line drawn?
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #8 on: August 12, 2019, 02:53:30 PM »
Also, what happens to a soldier that gets trapped in the red flag laws while still on active duty.

Are they then forbidden from carrying their assigned weapon while at the qualification range or in the field training?
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Online Jazzhead

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #9 on: August 12, 2019, 03:00:09 PM »
Where does it end?  Where is the line drawn?

Any constitutional red flag law will afford due process protections along the lines discussed by David French in a recent thread.    That's how it ends.   With due process - the foundational principle of the rule of law under our Constitutional republic.   

And the best way to ensure that such a law has robust due process protections is for conservatives and gun owners to ENGAGE and be part of the solution to mass shootings.   Not just bleat out spasms of selfish anger and paranoia.   
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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #10 on: August 12, 2019, 03:15:21 PM »
And the best way to ensure that such a law has robust due process protections is for conservatives and gun owners to ENGAGE and be part of the solution to mass shootings.   Not just bleat out spasms of selfish anger and paranoia.

When Conservatives ENGAGE and become part of the solution, there's a dead shooter.
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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #11 on: August 12, 2019, 03:24:43 PM »
Any constitutional red flag law will afford due process protections along the lines discussed by David French in a recent thread.    That's how it ends.   With due process - the foundational principle of the rule of law under our Constitutional republic.   

And the best way to ensure that such a law has robust due process protections is for conservatives and gun owners to ENGAGE and be part of the solution to mass shootings.   Not just bleat out spasms of selfish anger and paranoia.

Right so no line is drawn so at any time an anti-gunner like yourself can just move the bar on that and decide that anyone THEY determine unfit can their 2A rights stripped from them.


Got it.

BTW...if I were to fall victim to a Red Flag law how do you know if you send the cops to my house you've got all my guns?
« Last Edit: August 12, 2019, 03:25:46 PM by txradioguy »
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #12 on: August 12, 2019, 04:09:02 PM »
BTW...if I were to fall victim to a Red Flag law how do you know if you send the cops to my house you've got all my guns?

Red law or no, you won't have all of mine, I'll tell you what... And boy, will I be pissed.

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #13 on: August 12, 2019, 04:10:37 PM »
Red law or no, you won't have all of mine, I'll tell you what... And boy, will I be pissed.

Same here.  On both counts.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline libertybele

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #14 on: August 12, 2019, 04:15:19 PM »
If someone helps a veteran with their VA benefits, the veteran can be reported to NICS. Just because someone helped them. It’s wrong on so many levels. And the weapons can be kept for up to a year, sometimes longer. It’s difficult to get them back, even if the situation that prompted it was only a temporary one.

Why does Jazzy hate veterans so much?

Well, why does @Jazzhead object to conservatism so much?
"I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes. I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey it laws; to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies." -William Page

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2019, 04:26:16 PM »
Well, why does @Jazzhead object to conservatism so much?

No, see, HE'S the conservative. We're all what he calls extremists.  *****rollingeyes*****

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #16 on: August 12, 2019, 11:02:23 PM »
@sneakypete

Is this a "bald faced lie" as well?

@txradioguy

Time will tell.

Given his lifelong negotiating strategy is to keep his opponents off balance and surprise them,I will be convinced he is serious about it when he signs it into law. Until then it is nothing but "theater".
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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #17 on: August 13, 2019, 10:28:12 AM »
@txradioguy

Time will tell.

Given his lifelong negotiating strategy is to keep his opponents off balance and surprise them,I will be convinced he is serious about it when he signs it into law. Until then it is nothing but "theater".

He's also at times been a supporter of the AWB too.  So you're right time will tell.

I just wanted to see what you'd say about this since you called me a liar yesterday for factually stating Trump supported Red Flag laws.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #18 on: August 14, 2019, 09:06:46 AM »
They...by the current text in the red flag laws are prime candidates for having weapons they own seized because they are considered "high risk".

Where does it end?   

Here's where it ends @txradioguy

Can be changed by a 5-4 Supreme Court Decision:

Quote
In the 2008 case District of Columbia v. Heller, the Supreme Court held that the "Second Amendment protects an individual right to possess a firearm unconnected with service in a militia, and to use that arm for traditionally lawful purposes, such as self-defense within the home."

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/second_amendment 
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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #19 on: August 14, 2019, 09:29:58 AM »
Here's where it ends @txradioguy

Can be changed by a 5-4 Supreme Court Decision:

@Right_in_Virginia

The decision in Heller has nothing to do with red flag laws.

All Heller did was reaffirm what was already written in the Second Amendment.  Despite what some people here claim...the individual right to keep and bear arms didn't just magically appear with the Heller decision.  It was embedded in this country when the Bill of Rights was written and ratified.

And given the threats by Liberal Senators yesterday to the SCOTUS about changes they'll make to the court if they don't vote the "right way" on a 2nd Amendment Case before them right now just highlights how far the left and their facillitators will go to take away a fundamental right of everyone in this country.

It's also a perfect example of why we shouldn't be so willing to give up our guns.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #20 on: August 14, 2019, 10:03:57 AM »
[
All Heller did was reaffirm what was already written in the Second Amendment.  Despite what some people here claim...the individual right to keep and bear arms didn't just magically appear with the Heller decision.  It was embedded in this country when the Bill of Rights was written and ratified.


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Online skeeter

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #21 on: August 14, 2019, 10:13:26 AM »
And the best way to ensure that such a law has robust due process protections is for conservatives and gun owners to ENGAGE and be part of the solution to mass shootings.   Not just bleat out spasms of selfish anger and paranoia.

Obviously the solution to mass shootings is universal right to carry, the only course of action that offers any hope of regularly stopping these killers.

The left & others needs to 'engage' on this to be part of the solution, and not just their spew anti 2A nonsense.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2019, 10:15:22 AM »
You are an ostrich with your head in the sand.

@Jazzhead @txradioguy

It's awful big of you to admit that even an ostrich with it's head in the sand understands more than you.
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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #23 on: August 14, 2019, 10:21:56 AM »
@Jazzhead @txradioguy

It's awful big of you to admit that even an ostrich with it's head in the sand understands more than you.

I realized I knew more about the 2A the moment he hit send on his first post on the subject.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #24 on: August 14, 2019, 10:25:22 AM »
I realized I knew more about the 2A the moment he hit send on his first post on the subject.

Your combination of arrogance and stupidity will cause the loss of your precious right.   
"He was born poor, died rich, and never hurt anyone along the way"

   - Duke Ellington, upon hearing of the death of Louis Armstrong

"Not forever.  Just for now"

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