Author Topic: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership  (Read 14053 times)

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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #50 on: August 14, 2019, 05:21:52 pm »
This is exactly how I said it to my Senator last week, for which I was accused of "bullying" her.  "Stand fast, or you will lose next year" is what I said.

And sadly there are some willing to test that...at their own political peril...but still
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #51 on: August 14, 2019, 05:35:34 pm »
And sadly there are some willing to test that...at their own political peril...but still

Those are the fools who believe the DeeCee press and the conversations at cocktail parties over their own voters.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #52 on: August 14, 2019, 07:27:12 pm »
I never understood this line of reasoning. How can militias form in defense of a free state if people aren't allowed to possess arms?

Here's the reasoning @skeeter :  The people are armed as part of a well-regulated militia for the purpose of defending the state (think National Guard). 

One side of the 2A debate lays claim that there is no individual right to bear arms; the right is bestowed solely for the purpose of protecting the state, not the individual/family.  The other side says:  No. The 2A gives me the right to pack any gun(s) I want and take it (them), (concealed if preferred), wherever I go in the name of my inalienable right to self-defense. 

The SC Heller decision upholds the 2nd position.  The language in the Constitution does not.

Heller was won by a one vote majority.  Heller could be overturned by the same margin.  If Heller is overturned, in this current environment, all gun bets are off.   :shrug:

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #53 on: August 14, 2019, 07:33:03 pm »
Here's the reasoning @skeeter :  The people are armed as part of a well-regulated militia for the purpose of defending the state (think National Guard). 

One side of the 2A debate lays claim that there is no individual right to bear arms; the right is bestowed solely for the purpose of protecting the state, not the individual/family.  The other side says:  No. The 2A gives me the right to pack any gun(s) I want and take it (them), (concealed if preferred), wherever I go in the name of my inalienable right to self-defense. 

The SC Heller decision upholds the 2nd position.  The language in the Constitution does not.

Heller was won by a one vote majority.  Heller could be overturned by the same margin.  If Heller is overturned, in this current environment, all gun bets are off.   :shrug:

This is the truth, and should serve as a call to SOLIDARITY.   
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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #54 on: August 14, 2019, 07:36:34 pm »
I never understood this line of reasoning. How can militias form in defense of a free state if people aren't allowed to possess arms?

Will the state keep then distribute them at the appropriate time? It's not hard to imagine the dichotomy with this line of thinking.

Because when it was drafted, the Second Amendment only applied to the federal government, so each individual state would have been free to determine the conditions on which individuals within the state could bear arms. 

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #55 on: August 14, 2019, 07:38:32 pm »
This is the truth, and should serve as a call to SOLIDARITY.

 *****rollingeyes*****
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #56 on: August 14, 2019, 07:40:44 pm »
Because when it was drafted, the Second Amendment only applied to the federal government, so each individual state would have been free to determine the conditions on which individuals within the state could bear arms.

And then there's that pesky mention of the individuals right to keep and bear arms right after the talk of militias and the state.

You know...the part that ends with "shall not be infringed"
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #57 on: August 14, 2019, 07:49:27 pm »
This is the truth, and should serve as a call to SOLIDARITY.

"Solidarity?"  LOL! 
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #58 on: August 14, 2019, 07:51:19 pm »
Because when it was drafted, the Second Amendment only applied to the federal government, so each individual state would have been free to determine the conditions on which individuals within the state could bear arms.

We have had a "federal government" in name only for some time now.  This is a National Government.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline Right_in_Virginia

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #59 on: August 14, 2019, 07:52:21 pm »

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #60 on: August 14, 2019, 07:52:46 pm »
And I am by no means alone.

@roamer_1

@txradioguy

Neither is txradioguy,and we are armed and experienced.
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #61 on: August 14, 2019, 07:53:16 pm »
  And the RKBA crowd is not doing well in this arena, not well at all.

They'd do a lot better if only they'd attempt to respond constructively to the anger and frustration folks feel about a tsunami of mass shootings and gun violence.   Adopting an absolutist position eschewing all willingness to be part of a solution is disrespectful to such folks,  and is hardly the way to win their vote.   
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Online Cyber Liberty

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #62 on: August 14, 2019, 07:58:09 pm »
That's really cold @Cyber Liberty

What can I say?  I'm in a mood.  People lying about their desire to see me disarmed and at the mercy of predators do that to me.   :shrug:

(I am not referring to you, I think.  I'm talking about the fellow who's been calling me "paranoid" ever since he said he was afraid some yahoo like me would waltz around HIS public square.)
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #63 on: August 14, 2019, 08:01:59 pm »
They'd do a lot better if only they'd attempt to respond constructively to the anger and frustration folks feel about a tsunami of mass shootings and gun violence.   Adopting an absolutist position eschewing all willingness to be part of a solution is disrespectful to such folks,  and is hardly the way to win their vote.

You mean, "If we would compromise more of our rights away, our rights will be safe."  That's idiotic.  Let the Rats compromise with me, and legalize full-auto sport rifles.  Otherwise, I've proven that compromise on this issue is in reality just another leftward ratchet.  It's not my problem you are impervious to the arguments laid before you on this forum.

My turn:   *****rollingeyes*****
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #64 on: August 14, 2019, 08:05:40 pm »
You mean, "If we would compromise more of our rights away, our rights will be safe."  That's idiotic.  Let the Rats compromise with me, and legalize full-auto sport rifles.  Otherwise, I've proven that compromise on this issue is in reality just another leftward ratchet.  It's not my problem you are impervious to the arguments laid before you on this forum.

My turn:   *****rollingeyes*****

nailed it.
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Online roamer_1

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #65 on: August 14, 2019, 08:26:59 pm »
Here's the reasoning @skeeter :  The people are armed as part of a well-regulated militia for the purpose of defending the state (think National Guard). 

@Right_in_Virginia

Right, but oh so wrong.'National Guard', at the time, was a true citizen militia. 'Regulated' at the time meant 'well ordered' - IOW Well equipped. Since the militia obtained it's equipment from the citizens themselves - to include small arms, long arms, and cannons - The right to self defense is naturally inherent, because the arms reside with the citizens themselves.

In fact, while the history of the National Guard resides in the citizen militia, The National Guard itself is not a citizen militia anymore, but rather, a federalized state army - An army against the spirit and intention of the BOR and the 2nd Amendment, which being written to offset the formation of a federalized army - The BOR was written to assure the citizen militia - That is, the citizen himself - would not be displaced, subsumed, or overpowered by the newly created standing army... written specifically in fear of same.

So it is absolutely absurd to imagine the National Guard as the heir apparent of the 2nd Amendment. It resides completely and only in the inherent and natural right of every man himself, as granted by God.

Quote
Heller was won by a one vote majority.  Heller could be overturned by the same margin.  If Heller is overturned, in this current environment, all gun bets are off.   :shrug:

All gun bets are off the minute there is universal registration, as hawked by your far left leaning president, at which point the threat you imply is made moot.

Online roamer_1

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #66 on: August 14, 2019, 08:32:59 pm »
This is the truth, and should serve as a call to SOLIDARITY.

Exactly wrong. It is a threat, plain and simple.

Online roamer_1

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #67 on: August 14, 2019, 08:35:41 pm »
Because when it was drafted, the Second Amendment only applied to the federal government, so each individual state would have been free to determine the conditions on which individuals within the state could bear arms.

Wrong. It was written to offset the first standing army that was not citizen militia. There were no standing state armies.

Online roamer_1

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #68 on: August 14, 2019, 08:36:32 pm »
And then there's that pesky mention of the individuals right to keep and bear arms right after the talk of militias and the state.

You know...the part that ends with "shall not be infringed"

That's right.

Online roamer_1

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #69 on: August 14, 2019, 08:38:05 pm »
They'd do a lot better if only they'd attempt to respond constructively to the anger and frustration folks feel about a tsunami of mass shootings and gun violence.   Adopting an absolutist position eschewing all willingness to be part of a solution is disrespectful to such folks,  and is hardly the way to win their vote.

Wholly manufactured bullcrap.

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #70 on: August 14, 2019, 08:38:14 pm »
@Right_in_Virginia

Right, but oh so wrong.'National Guard', at the time, was a true citizen militia. 'Regulated' at the time meant 'well ordered' - IOW Well equipped. Since the militia obtained it's equipment from the citizens themselves - to include small arms, long arms, and cannons - The right to self defense is naturally inherent, because the arms reside with the citizens themselves.

Words mean things, and because English is a "living language," the precise meaning of the individual words have changed over time.  One must bone up on the text of the Federalist Papers to understand the full context of the words in the Bill of Rights.  Basically, it's "Because we need a well-supplied militia (Self-supplied at that), the individual RKBA must not be abridged," not what the brilliant lawyers say it means about it being some sort of vague communal right.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online roamer_1

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #71 on: August 14, 2019, 08:39:53 pm »
My turn:   *****rollingeyes*****

You forgot suppressors. We need suppressors.

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #72 on: August 14, 2019, 08:40:31 pm »
Wholly manufactured bullcrap.

The same manufactured attempt to stampede the people we've heard before, through the use of copious amounts of bullcrap.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online Cyber Liberty

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #73 on: August 14, 2019, 08:42:21 pm »
You forgot suppressors. We need suppressors.

 :facepalm:

I forgot.  "Hearing Protection."  The kind that's actually required of hunters in what little hunting is allowed now in England.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online roamer_1

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Re: Trump Backs 'Red Flag' Laws That Could Impact Veteran Gun Ownership
« Reply #74 on: August 14, 2019, 08:44:56 pm »
Words mean things, and because English is a "living language," the precise meaning of the individual words have changed over time.  One must bone up on the text of the Federalist Papers to understand the full context of the words in the Bill of Rights.  Basically, it's "Because we need a well-supplied militia (Self-supplied at that), the individual RKBA must not be abridged," not what the brilliant lawyers say it means about it being some sort of vague communal right.

That's right. People who can't read Chaucer as originally written should STFU.  *****rollingeyes*****

And your translation is right on the money, as evidenced in the commentary of our Founders.