Author Topic: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots  (Read 303 times)

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Online mystery-ak

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New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« on: August 09, 2019, 09:08:27 AM »
New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
By Marina Pitofsky - 08/09/19 08:51 AM EDT

A civil rights group filed a lawsuit this week against the state of Texas over allegations that two residents' votes were thrown out by local officials.

The lawsuit, filed by the Texas Civil Right Project, alleges that two Texas voters, George Richardson and Rosalie Weisfeld, had their mail-in ballots rejected after local election officials said the signatures on the documents were not theirs.

The lawsuit alleges that the state election laws allowing the officials to reject the ballots is in violation of the Fourteenth Amendment, the Americans with Disabilities Act and the Rehabilitation Act of 1973.

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https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/456815-new-lawsuit-alleges-texas-threw-out-mail-in-ballots
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Online Victoria33

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Re: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2019, 09:23:23 AM »
@mystery-ak

I was the Judge of The Early Voting Ballot Board for our county for those ten years I worked in elections.  It is that board that checks mail-in ballots.  In a while, I will write about which signatures are compared - that process.  I also taught that process to various Texas counties including Harris County, which includes Houston.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 09:44:59 AM by Victoria33 »
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Re: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2019, 01:18:49 PM »
@mystery-ak
@Cyber Liberty
@roamer_1
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(Hmm, let's do this - with another election approaching, if I need to write more about the election process, which I will have to do as wrong information gets to the public, if you want me to ping you to those posts, send me a PM now and I will include you.)

That headline is another misleading title.  No mail-in ballot is rejected until an evaluation of the ballot materials is completed, including evaluating the voter signatures.  I tell you at the bottom of this post why voting by mail is the most difficult way to vote.

VERIFYING  BALLOTS VOTED BY MAIL IN TEXAS

The law pertaining to the appointment of the Early Voting Ballot Board and the Signature Verification Committee, and how they work to validate all ballots by mail:  https://statutes.capitol.texas.gov/Docs/EL/htm/EL.87.htm

Without going into detail as to how the Early Voting Ballot Board and the Signature Verification is put together, the members are half Democrats and half Republicans.  The Judge of the board is a person of the party of which the Governor was elected in the last Gubernatorial election.  So, at this time, every Texas Judge of the EVBB or SVC in every county is a Republican as Governor Abbott is a Republican. 

The appointed Early Voting Ballot Board (EVBB) or an appointed Signature Verification Committee (SVC) may validate the voter’s signature.  In smaller counties, the EVBB usually does this along with their other duties verifying ballots by mail.  In larger counties, say 4.70 million in Harris County (Houston area) a SVC is usually appointed for this reason: every mail in ballot requires validating signatures so the separate SVC takes that one burden off the EVBB 

There is one caveat pertaining to this:
If there is a separate SVC, they do their work before the EVBB meets and give their report of ballots rejected due to non-matching signatures, to the EVBB.  The EVBB can and does, also compare those rejected signatures and if they determine by examination and vote, the signatures are the same, that ballot is returned to the accepted voter signature stack of ballots.  This, then, is an added second evaluation of signatures to try to accept every ballot as valid.

Now, I will explain the parts of that law pertaining to validating the voter’s signature and why we do that.  Let’s determine what voter signature the law says we have to validate:

“Sec. 87.027(i)  The signature verification committee shall compare the signature on each carrier envelope certificate, except those signed for a voter by a witness, with the signature on the voter's ballot application to determine whether the signatures are those of the voter.”

Have you voted by mail?  You sent in an application for a mail ballot and signed it.  That white application, which you signed, once your yellow ballot envelope which you signed, gets back to the county, is attached to the yellow envelope and given to the EVBB or SVC.  Those are the two signatures compared.

There is one exception and that is when you are not able to sign your signature on the application and the yellow envelope, and a witness signs for you, the two signatures are not compared.  However, if a witness does sign, and/or helps you fill out the ballot, the witness must  provide his/her name and address or the ballot is rejected.

Next, if the two signatures are not alike, the EVBB or SVC does this:

“The committee may also compare the signatures with any two or more signatures of the voter made within the preceding six years and on file with the county clerk or voter registrar to determine whether the signatures are those of the voter.”

This is another check to try to accept the mail ballot.  My board did this when there was a question about signatures not matching.  A voter signs when he/she applies to  be a voter and that document is kept, so we compared that signature with the ones on the yellow envelope and white application, plus any other voter signature kept by the county for the last six years.

When this process has finished comparing signatures for a ballot, the EVBB or SVC takes a vote whether or not to accept this ballot.  And, as noted above, the EVBB can reconsider, reevaluate, signatures the SVC rejected.

Once the EVBB is finished with their work evaluating every mail ballot, the ones rejected get a letter from the Judge of the EVBB, describing why their mail ballot was rejected.  That was my job.  I mailed those letters one or two days after election day.  They have to be mailed by 10 days later, but I got them out as soon as I could.  Yes, my phone number was on those letters, and I got calls from some of them, but not one complained, they just wanted to discuss more about what they did and what they could do next time to prevent their ballot not getting counted.

One time during those years, I wrote an article for the local paper instructing people how to vote by mail so their ballot would not be rejected.  Voting by mail is the most difficult way to vote; there are too many ways to “screw up” those required documents to vote by mail . I urged them to go to the polls in early voting if they possibly could. 
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Re: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« Reply #3 on: August 09, 2019, 01:21:09 PM »
I suspect they've done this to me a couple times.
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Re: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« Reply #4 on: August 09, 2019, 01:25:48 PM »
Thanks for the info, @Victoria33!  My County Supervisor tells me our canvassing procedures are similar in AZ.  I am still leery of mail-in ballots, especially for younger people who are perfectly capable of showing up at a voting place with ID in hand.
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Re: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« Reply #5 on: August 09, 2019, 01:27:25 PM »
I suspect they've done this to me a couple times.

You're military, so yeah.  I still remember the glee and high-fiving Gore's lawyers in FL did when they got a batch of military votes thrown out because they didn't have a USPS postmark.
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Re: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« Reply #6 on: August 09, 2019, 01:47:35 PM »
You're military, so yeah.  I still remember the glee and high-fiving Gore's lawyers in FL did when they got a batch of military votes thrown out because they didn't have a USPS postmark.
@Cyber Liberty

I was part of that to get those military ballots back in the count.  I worked with Secretary of State Catherine Harris and the Republican State Chairman and Catherine's lawyer to get those ballots back in.  They didn't know the law about how military ballots get counted, including when they got there.
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Re: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« Reply #7 on: August 09, 2019, 01:50:04 PM »
@Cyber Liberty

I was part of that to get those military ballots back in the count.  I worked with Secretary of State Catherine Harris and the Republican State Chairman and Catherine's lawyer to get those ballots back in.  They didn't know the law about how military ballots get counted, including when they got there.

I'm sure the Lawyers for Gore knew, but they also knew a leftist judge would stamp it off.  I am glad to hear you were there and got it right.  I met Catherine once, BTW.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2019, 01:54:51 PM »
Their case has merit.  However, I would like to have more facts here.  Was this the first time either plaintiff voted absentee?  Let's see the signatures that were used to compare.  A simple remedy would be to advance notification of signature rejection, and a period to allow appeal before the election is certified.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2019, 02:05:23 PM »
So, we're talking two ballots?
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Re: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2019, 02:19:23 PM »
I'm sure the Lawyers for Gore knew, but they also knew a leftist judge would stamp it off.  I am glad to hear you were there and got it right.  I met Catherine once, BTW.
@Cyber Liberty

The reason I got involved was, with military bases in Florida, I couldn't stand the idea of that many ballots not being counted as those bases send many overseas, and I had just talked to a military officer overseas who was in charge of ballots getting to the US, how he did it.  Military ballots are super special, and at the time, they looked different from other paper ballots and had to be counted by the EVBB.  I expect it is much easier now, will look that up.
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Re: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2019, 02:22:54 PM »
@Cyber Liberty

The reason I got involved was, with military bases in Florida, I couldn't stand the idea of that many ballots not being counted as those bases send many overseas, and I had just talked to a military officer overseas who was in charge of ballots getting to the US, how he did it.  Military ballots are super special, and at the time, they looked different from other paper ballots and had to be counted by the EVBB.  I expect it is much easier now, will look that up.

The gleeful lawyers I referred to earlier got ballots thrown out because they didn't have postmarks from USPS.  Mail from the military mail system didn't have USPS postmarks, so they had almost gotten all ballots from deployed forces thrown out.  The sharpest slap in the face I've ever seen our soldiers get.
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Re: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2019, 02:34:35 PM »
Before that was over, I gave Catherine a George Bush badge - sheriff's design gold badge with Bush's name on it.  She said she would wear it.
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Re: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2019, 02:46:41 PM »
So, we're talking two ballots?

Quote
A civil rights group filed a lawsuit this week against the state of Texas over allegations that two residents' votes were thrown out by local officials.

They probably were thrown out and likely for damned good reasons.


Offline Sanguine

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Re: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2019, 03:28:41 PM »
They probably were thrown out and likely for damned good reasons.

This doesn't prove they were thrown out for good reason, but it does make one wonder:
Quote
https://www.facebook.com/RosalieWeisfeldforDemocrats/

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/texas-signature-mismatch-absentee-ballot_n_5d4b414ae4b01e44e4749888

Quote
http://jhvonline.com/jews-march-for-king-today-xcreating-bridges-not-barriersx-p25457-96.htm

Rosalie Weisfeld is from McAllen, Texas, but will be moving to Houston soon. “Civil alliances have always been very important to me,” she said. I think that we’re stronger together. So, the Jewish community, having a part in Martin Luther King Day sends a signal that we want to be a part of this greater community. I’m here to participate as a Jew, as a Texan, as a member of this world.”

Weisfeld said it was especially important to participate in the parade because of what is going on along the Texas-Mexico border. “I think globally, not locally,” she said, “and I think it’s important for us to show that we’re supportive of people from all walks of life, from all places on the earth. And, in McAllen … it’s ground zero. President [Donald] Trump was just there talking about a wall. I’m 10 minutes from the border. I was born and reared there. I feel perfectly safe. … As a taxpayer, I’d rather see the money go to education and to enhance the lives of the people of the United States, not towards creating barriers. To me, this march is symbolic of creating bridges and not barriers.”
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Re: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« Reply #15 on: August 09, 2019, 04:48:14 PM »
Mail ballots are key to ballot harvesting programs and having to have the signatures actually match throws a BIG monkeywrench in the works @Sanguine.

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Re: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« Reply #16 on: August 09, 2019, 05:13:22 PM »
@Sanguine 

Below this paragraph is the law about comparing signatures.  (It is also in the law I quoted above.)  A voter  sends in an application for a mail ballot and signs it.  That white application, which the voter signed, once the yellow ballot envelope which the voter also signs, gets back to the county, is attached to the yellow envelope and given to the EVBB or SVC.  These are the two signatures compared.  The two signatures would be written within days of each other – not a long time between them. Next, if the two signatures are not alike, the EVBB or SVC does this:

“The committee may also compare the signatures with any two or more signatures of the voter made within the preceding six years and on file with the county clerk or voter registrar to determine whether the signatures are those of the voter.”

After that process, the committee votes whether or not to accept the ballot.
The above is what happens.  No mail ballots are just thrown out for no reason.

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Re: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« Reply #17 on: August 09, 2019, 05:20:49 PM »
@Sanguine 

Below this paragraph is the law about comparing signatures.  (It is also in the law I quoted above.)  A voter sends in an application for a mail ballot and is supposed to be the one who signs it.  That white application, which the voter is supposed to have signed, once the yellow ballot envelope which the voter also is supposed to have signed signs, gets back to the county, is attached to the yellow envelope and given to the EVBB or SVC.  These are the two signatures compared.  The two signatures would be written within days of each other – not a long time between them. Next, if the two signatures are not alike, the EVBB or SVC does this:

“The committee may also compare the signatures with any two or more signatures of the voter made within the preceding six years and on file with the county clerk or voter registrar to determine whether the signatures are those of the voter.”

After that process, the committee votes whether or not to accept the ballot.
The above is what happens.  No mail ballots are just thrown out for no reason.

Fixed it for you @Victoria33.

The FACT is that people other than the actual voter sign both envelopes and cast votes for other people all the time! The Democrats have perfected this vote harvesting scheme in every large city in the state.

@Sanguine
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 05:28:19 PM by Bigun »

Offline Sanguine

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Re: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« Reply #18 on: August 09, 2019, 05:34:03 PM »
@Sanguine 

Below this paragraph is the law about comparing signatures.  (It is also in the law I quoted above.)  A voter  sends in an application for a mail ballot and signs it.  That white application, which the voter signed, once the yellow ballot envelope which the voter also signs, gets back to the county, is attached to the yellow envelope and given to the EVBB or SVC.  These are the two signatures compared.  The two signatures would be written within days of each other – not a long time between them. Next, if the two signatures are not alike, the EVBB or SVC does this:

“The committee may also compare the signatures with any two or more signatures of the voter made within the preceding six years and on file with the county clerk or voter registrar to determine whether the signatures are those of the voter.”

After that process, the committee votes whether or not to accept the ballot.
The above is what happens.  No mail ballots are just thrown out for no reason.

Thanks, @Victoria33.  That is how I understand it too.  I suspect that her ballot was disallowed for legitimate reasons.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 05:34:59 PM by Sanguine »
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Re: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« Reply #19 on: August 09, 2019, 06:01:15 PM »
Fixed it for you @Victoria33.
The FACT is that people other than the actual voter sign both envelopes and cast votes for other people all the time! The Democrats have perfected this vote harvesting scheme in every large city in the state.
@Sanguine
@Bigun

That is a different problem and won't work you way you wrote it although you want it to be true!
If a person fills out an application using another voter's name and address, the ballot would go to the actual voter, not the bad guy.  If the bad guy uses another voter's name but HIS own address, and signs both documents using the voter's name, it would still get caught because the EVBB would see the ballot went to the wrong address.  It would get rejected.

Another check is this: the voter list at a poling place on election day, lists the voter names and shows if the voter has already voted by mail or early voting.  The real voter would tell the judge he/she did not vote by mail even though it is marked, and the judge would have the voter vote a provisional paper ballot which would be forwarded to the Early Voting Ballot Board for consideration one or two days after the election. The real voter name signature would be compared to the fake one and the fake one would be thrown out.

You hear of someone doing something like this, you see it on the web, and you believe it works, but you don't know the final outcome of someone trying this.  I have been there, seen these events happen and know it gets caught by the system.  Do some not get caught, sure, but not in terms of many hundreds/thousands.

Know this:
Someone does not say let's have an election and they have it anyway they want.  The Election Code of Texas book is 600+ pages and I just got the one for 2019.  It was a little over $20 on Amazon and you should get one so you will be more educated about Texas elections. You can find the answers to your questions about absolutely everything regarding elections!


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Re: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« Reply #20 on: August 09, 2019, 06:07:05 PM »
@Bigun

That is a different problem and won't work you way you wrote it although you want it to be true!
If a person fills out an application using another voter's name and address, the ballot would go to the actual voter, not the bad guy.  If the bad guy uses another voter's name but HIS own address, and signs both documents using the voter's name, it would still get caught because the EVBB would see the ballot went to the wrong address.  It would get rejected.

Another check is this: the voter list at a poling place on election day, lists the voter names and shows if the voter has already voted by mail or early voting.  The real voter would tell the judge he/she did not vote by mail even though it is marked, and the judge would have the voter vote a provisional paper ballot which would be forwarded to the Early Voting Ballot Board for consideration one or two days after the election. The real voter name signature would be compared to the fake one and the fake one would be thrown out.

You hear of someone doing something like this, you see it on the web, and you believe it works, but you don't know the final outcome of someone trying this.  I have been there, seen these events happen and know it gets caught by the system.  Do some not get caught, sure, but not in terms of many hundreds/thousands.

Know this:
Someone does not say let's have an election and they have it anyway they want.  The Election Code of Texas book is 600+ pages and I just got the one for 2019.  It was a little over $20 on Amazon and you should get one so you will be more educated about Texas elections. You can find the answers to your questions about absolutely everything regarding elections!

Yeah! Right @Victoria33! I was an election judge in this state for many years and served on every kind of committee there is.  All you need is an operative or two in all the assisted living, hospice care, and other such places,  a few pens, a roll of stamps, and a list of who signs which application and you can make a REAL difference in an election!  Witness 2018.

Do you think any of those facilities I mentioned has a Post Office inside?   Or does the mail just get delivered to the office for internal distribution?  (I already know the answer to that question)

BTW: ALL of the addresses are the same except for the apt/room numbers.  Managers have the names of every single person who is there and so on.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 06:13:08 PM by Bigun »

Offline bigheadfred

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Re: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« Reply #21 on: August 09, 2019, 10:21:18 PM »
Bookmark

I'll read this tomorrow @Victoria33.

Thanks for the link.

Offline bigheadfred

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Re: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« Reply #22 on: August 09, 2019, 10:25:16 PM »
As I scanned it, I got this tingle in my leg that is a fur sure sign of me screaming, waving my arms, and wishing I had guns...

Yeah. Tomorrow.

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Re: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« Reply #23 on: August 09, 2019, 11:30:25 PM »
Yeah! Right @Victoria33! I was an election judge in this state for many years and served on every kind of committee there is.  All you need is an operative or two in all the assisted living, hospice care, and other such places,  a few pens, a roll of stamps, and a list of who signs which application and you can make a REAL difference in an election!  Witness 2018.  Do you think any of those facilities I mentioned has a Post Office inside?   Or does the mail just get delivered to the office for internal distribution?  (I already know the answer to that question)  BTW: ALL of the addresses are the same except for the apt/room numbers.  Managers have the names of every single person who is there and so on.
@Bigun
@mystery-ak
@Cyber Liberty

Fraudulent mail ballots from nursing homes, retirement homes, can be caught, stopped, by every county Early Voting Ballot Board - I did it in my county that attaches to yours and taught other counties' Republican officers how their board could do it.  This training is not the training I gave to election judges and clerks, which I did one time in your county. 

The Judge of the EVBB must know the laws that instruct how to evaluate these ballots.  These laws/rules for the Board is in the Texas Election Code but few people actually read it.  When I taught this in Harris county to their Republican officials, they went wild, got out of their chairs clapping and dancing - they finally had a legal way to dump those hundreds of illegal ballots from nursing homes, etc. 

I won't go through the law here that directs the Board how to evaluate these ballots because I don't want Democrats finding out what these laws/rules are - I doubt any Democrat reads the laws/rules for the EVBB.
Remember, up thread, I explained why every Judge of these boards in every Texas county, must be a Republican.

Before the primary election, I'll contact the Secretary of State, Elections Division, to discuss with them the importance of training Judges of Early Voting Ballot Boards.  If the Judge does not know, it won't get done.

For you, tomorrow, I will PM you the laws that instruct the board how to evaluate certain mail ballots!!!

« Last Edit: August 09, 2019, 11:33:02 PM by Victoria33 »
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Re: New lawsuit alleges Texas threw out mail-in ballots
« Reply #24 on: August 09, 2019, 11:40:36 PM »
@Bigun
@mystery-ak
@Cyber Liberty

Fraudulent mail ballots from nursing homes, retirement homes, can be caught, stopped, by every county Early Voting Ballot Board - I did it in my county that attaches to yours and taught other counties' Republican officers how their board could do it.  This training is not the training I gave to election judges and clerks, which I did one time in your county. 

The Judge of the EVBB must know the laws that instruct how to evaluate these ballots.  These laws/rules for the Board is in the Texas Election Code but few people actually read it.  When I taught this in Harris county to their Republican officials, they went wild, got out of their chairs clapping and dancing - they finally had a legal way to dump those hundreds of illegal ballots from nursing homes, etc. 

I won't go through the law here that directs the Board how to evaluate these ballots because I don't want Democrats finding out what these laws/rules are - I doubt any Democrat reads the laws/rules for the EVBB.
Remember, up thread, I explained why every Judge of these boards in every Texas county, must be a Republican.

Before the primary election, I'll contact the Secretary of State, Elections Division, to discuss with them the importance of training Judges of Early Voting Ballot Boards.  If the Judge does not know, it won't get done.

For you, tomorrow, I will PM you the laws that instruct the board how to evaluate certain mail ballots!!!

Your former County and My County are NOT where the problems occur @Victoria33.  They are nothing compared to the opportunities presented in Bexar, El Paso, Dallas, Harris, Tarrant, and several others all of which are currently run by DEMOCRATS who will stop at nothing in order to win.  You can keep living in your fantasy world if you wish but that's not going to change a thing where the rubber meets the road.


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