Republicans Fear ‘Extinction in the Suburbs’ Over Gun Control

[roamer_1]

Franklin was seeing the same tendencies and personality types in 1775 that we are seeing now. There's nothing new under the sun.

That's right.

[txradioguy]

And around here, they sure as hell do.

Uh-huh

[DCPatriot]

That's right.

One-third of the Colonists kept the fealty to the King.

One-third of the Colonists actively fought for Independence

One-third of the Colonists didn't give a shit and wanted to be left alone.

Hmmmmmm..... in which third might we find you?   

[roamer_1]

One-third of the Colonists kept the fealty to the King.

One-third of the Colonists actively fought for Independence

One-third of the Colonists didn't give a shit and wanted to be left alone.

Hmmmmmm..... in which third might we find you?   

Well not the former... But as to the rest, it's hard tellin.And I like it just like that.
 

[txradioguy]

Ok lets say these Red Flag laws are implemented with all the 4th and 5th Amendment protections our anti-gun friends here say they will include.

A person gets reported...gets his or her guns taken away as ordered by a judge.

What's to stop that person from driving downtown...or in a more rural setting out to the sticks somewhere and buying a gun from the local gang banger or hillbilly and still carrying out his or her murderous intentions?

For that matter how will anyone know if all of the persons guns were collected?

No one no matter what unconstitutional law..mandate or feel good legislation is proposed or passed will stop someone from getting a gun that wants one.

The gun grabbers mask their true intentions behind bullshit like Red Flag laws or "common sense" gun regulations....but at the end of the day what they are all striving for is total confiscation and the prohibition of ANY civilian owning any type of firearms.

And the ones that say otherwise are lying to your face.

[roamer_1]

And the ones that say otherwise are lying to your face.

That's right.

[Cyber Liberty]

That's right.

Every time they think they have a good crisis to exploit.  Effi ghouls, every one of them.

[roamer_1]

Every time they think they have a good crisis to exploit.  Effi ghouls, every one of them.

YEP.

[Cyber Liberty]

YEP.

I have no use for dirty, rotten scoundrels who take pleasure in mass murder so they can exploit the tragedy to forward their goal of disarming the public.  F*** them all.

As predictable as day follows night, the Rats were raising funds before the bodies were cold.

[txradioguy]

Every time they think they have a good crisis to exploit.  Effi ghouls, every one of them.

 

[roamer_1]

I have no use for dirty, rotten scoundrels who take pleasure in mass murder so they can exploit the tragedy to forward their goal of disarming the public.  F*** them all.

As predictable as day follows night, the Rats were raising funds before the bodies were cold.

Almost like they knew it was coming...
And don't look now, but the same with the pubbies.

[edpc]

Trump says there’s no political appetite to ban assault weapons ‘from the standpoint of the legislature,’ but he will bring it up with them.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,371325.new.html#new

[txradioguy]

Trump says there’s no political appetite to ban assault weapons ‘from the standpoint of the legislature,’ but he will bring it up with them.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,371325.new.html#new

If there's no appetite...then why even bring it up?

[edpc]

If there's no appetite...then why even bring it up?

Apparently, he’s the one who is hungry. There’s video of his comment, at the source. It sounds like he wants to press them on it.

[Right_in_Virginia]

@Right_in_Virginia

Seems to me like YOU are the one surrendering.

MY philosophy on gun control is that any citizen not on parole or other restriction should be able to walk into any gun shop in the country and buy any firearm he wants as long as it isn't a crew-served weapon.  The 2nd Amendment covers individual weapons as carried by the typical soldier,and individual soldiers don't carry crew-served weapons. By definition they need a crew.

BTW,before we get into that argument,the 2nd Amendment doesn't cover things like grenades,either. Grenades and similar devices are classified as "weapons of mass destruction" because they are nothing less than tiny bombs. 

Come on @sneakypete you must know me well enough by now to know I do not surrender.  It's just not in me.    And, please, don't bring in grenades and kitchen knives.  We're talking about guns --- not idiotic straw men arguments.

I am actually fighting for what you're fighting for ... preservation of American gun rights.  But I think current events, and by current I mean the last 15 years, demand a different kind of fight, a fight with a different focus.  We MUST acknowledge the pain the carnage has caused our fellow citizens.  Dead innocents cannot be whisked aside and replaced with a 200 year old document.  Not anymore; there has been too much bloodshed. 

Red flag laws reinforce the simple truth that the mentally ill murder.  Our support for such laws also tells our fellow citizens that we are not cold-hearted bastards who don't care how many children they bury.  We do care and want to help identify and treat those who exhibit the signs of mental illness that put all of us at risk --- even if this reduces the number of rampages by only one. 

We will fight to do this with Constitutional due diligence and court oversight, but we will do this. 

But this should be just the beginning.

We should then move to addressing the failures and stigmas in mental health treatment, the isolation among our youth -- the lack of family and community connection, the violence and diminishment of the value of life flowing to our young through video games, music, movies and television.  We should begin a campaign to reinforce that human life is a profound gift and its protection and enhancement is the first and most essential responsibility of all within a civilized society.

And you know what would happen if we did all of this?  We'd no longer be talking about guns -- at all;  but we'd be preventing the carnage they have been used for.

[thackney]

Politics and governing demand compromise. - Barry Goldwater.
https://www.azquotes.com/quote/602892

Trump understands principle, he understands the right to life. I thought folks bragged on how they were Goldwater conservatives, well Goldwater said politics and governing demanded compromise.  As usual some principled position seems built on BS but if we can wallow in our own self-aggrandizing pompous righteous, why not?  They don't help. Good riddance, we don't need them to remind us of this constantly, they do nothing, they abandoned principle.  Spare us the morality speech, hey, the rural areas are unfortunately pretty well offset by the urban.

I would remind you that extremism in the defense of liberty is no vice! And let me remind you also that moderation in the pursuit of justice is no virtue!

- Barry Goldwater

[EdJames]

I'm not suggesting we lie to anyone @EdJames because I'm convinced we could have stopped the killer in Florida and Dayton.  I'm not saying we can stop all ... but damn it, man, why wouldn't we be supportive of stopping even one?  Again .... if rights aren't up for debate then this includes the right to life.

Why wouldn't we want to stand as the people who want to stop the killing .... really stop the killing?  I repeat myself but red flag laws pave the way for a discussion and action on our failing mental health care, the importance (not the breakdown) of the family unit, fathers working with mothers, limiting the internet for developing hearts, minds and souls, working with community leaders and faith leaders .... the list is endless and each item on the list addresses the root cause of the carnage.

And you know what, Ed ... we will have changed the focus of the conversation from guns to the quality of our collective lives.  Take this as an opportunity not to defend guns but to defend life and your guns and the natural right to own them will be safe.

The democrats know this -- which is why they are so damn determined to include further gun control in the legislation being debated.  THEY know if we change the dialogue, they lose.

I know that you aren't a disingenuous person, @Right_in_Virginia, and I believe that your intentions are honorable and focused on the good.

But the focus should be on the items that you mention ("our failing mental health care, the importance (not the breakdown) of the family unit, fathers working with mothers, limiting the internet for developing hearts, minds and souls, working with community leaders and faith leaders .... the list is endless and each item on the list addresses the root cause of the carnage.") without inserting liberty-depriving red flag laws into the mix.  I know that you (and many others) would like to believe that they would work in the way intended, but countless posts in numerous threads here this week have done a very good job of explaining how they will fail both in intended results (stop killing) and the "unintended" consequences of deprivation of citizens' rights.

[austingirl]

Trump says there’s no political appetite to ban assault weapons ‘from the standpoint of the legislature,’ but he will bring it up with them.

http://www.gopbriefingroom.com/index.php/topic,371325.new.html#new

assault weapons  semi-automatic rifle

If you asked the average liberal if we should ban semi-automatic rifles for hunters, I wonder what they would say? It's damned tiresome to get lectures on what kinds of guns a person needs by someone who knows nothing about firearms.

[austingirl]

"I know that you (and many others) would like to believe that they would work in the way intended, but countless posts in numerous threads here this week have done a very good job of explaining how they will fail both in intended results (stop killing) and the "unintended" consequences of deprivation of citizens' rights."
 @EdJames

As my mother would say, "that's the pit and core of it!"

[sneakypete]

I am actually fighting for what you're fighting for ... preservation of American gun rights.  But I think current events, and by current I mean the last 15 years, demand a different kind of fight, a fight with a different focus.

 

I agree. ALL that compromise has brought us is more gun laws and more compromises. We give,they  take.

We MUST acknowledge the pain the carnage has caused our fellow citizens.  Dead innocents cannot be whisked aside and replaced with a 200 year old document.  Not anymore; there has been too much bloodshed.

 


Once again I agree,and more gun control is a direct cause of it. Notice how almost all the massacres are committed in areas with strict gun laws? The reason for that is the shooters know they won't get shot there because their victims are unarmed.

Red flag laws reinforce the simple truth that the mentally ill murder.

Biggest steaming pile of crap I have seen in months,maybe years. Saying "the mentally ill murder" is akin to stating that water is wet or that ducks are known to fly and swim. This is NOT some great discovery,yet people say it like it's something profound.

The REALITY is it means nothing  BECAUSE EVERYBODY KNOWS THIS,INCLUDING THE GUN GRABBERS. Hell,they rely on it to push for gun confiscation. What they don't want discussed in public is that armed citizens stop mass murders. Sometimes the mere fact that there are armed citizens walking around with concealed weapons  is enough to keep a massacre from happening because these loons don't want to get shot,they want to shoot someone else.

 

Our support for such laws also tells our fellow citizens that we are not cold-hearted bastards who don't care how many children they bury.

No,YOUR support for them shows our fellow citizens that you think the gun grabbers are right,and that no one but the police and the body guards for the wealthy should be ALLOWED to be armed.

 

We do care and want to help identify and treat those who exhibit the signs of mental illness that put all of us at risk --- even if this reduces the number of rampages by only one. 

Please splain how ME giving up MY guns saves any lives I would be interested in saving,or that needed saving. I have had guns since I was 8 years old,and haven't shot anyone since I left VN. Came close a few times when different sets of idiots thought they could rat pack me outside of bars or restaurants and get away with it because they outnumbered me,but I managed to get them to listen to reason. I WOULD have killed them,and was prepared to do so if they made their move,but they seemed to lose all interest in attacking me when I laughed at them and told them what would happen if they did.

We will fight to do this with Constitutional due diligence and court oversight, but we will do this. 

What's this "We" stuff,Willard?

But this should be just the beginning.

That's one thing I am positive about if it ever happens.

We should then move to addressing the failures and stigmas in mental health treatment, the isolation among our youth -- the lack of family and community connection, the violence and diminishment of the value of life flowing to our young through video games, music, movies and television.  We should begin a campaign to reinforce that human life is a profound gift and its protection and enhancement is the first and most essential responsibility of all within a civilized society.

And you know what would happen if we did all of this?

Yes. The left would announce we agreed with them,and would outlaw the NRA and private gun possession,as "A reasonable first step to restoring peace and tranquility."

 

We'd no longer be talking about guns -- at all;

You are right,but for the wrong reason. We would quit talking about guns because none of us would be allowed to have one after everyone,including people  like you,agreed with the left that it was the guns that caused the murders.

but we'd be preventing the carnage they have been used for.

That's one way of looking at it,I guess. A more effective way would be to confiscate and melt them down for scrap.

[EdJames]

"I know that you (and many others) would like to believe that they would work in the way intended, but countless posts in numerous threads here this week have done a very good job of explaining how they will fail both in intended results (stop killing) and the "unintended" consequences of deprivation of citizens' rights."
 @EdJames

As my mother would say, "that's the pit and core of it!"

Indeed!

[Jazzhead]

Ok lets say these Red Flag laws are implemented with all the 4th and 5th Amendment protections our anti-gun friends here say they will include.

A person gets reported...gets his or her guns taken away as ordered by a judge.

What's to stop that person from driving downtown...or in a more rural setting out to the sticks somewhere and buying a gun from the local gang banger or hillbilly and still carrying out his or her murderous intentions?

For that matter how will anyone know if all of the persons guns were collected?

No one no matter what unconstitutional law..mandate or feel good legislation is proposed or passed will stop someone from getting a gun that wants one.

The gun grabbers mask their true intentions behind bullshit like Red Flag laws or "common sense" gun regulations....but at the end of the day what they are all striving for is total confiscation and the prohibition of ANY civilian owning any type of firearms.

And the ones that say otherwise are lying to your face.

That's not the point.  Engagement is necessary to avoid disaster.   If gun extremism keeps the GOP from credibly appealing to the millions of voters concerned with unremitting gun violence, then the future is clear - the 2A is done.   

[EdJames]

assault weapons  semi-automatic rifle

If you asked the average liberal if we should ban semi-automatic rifles for hunters, I wonder what they would say? It's damned tiresome to get lectures on what kinds of guns a person needs by someone who knows nothing about firearms.

[thackney]

That's not the point.  Engagement is necessary to avoid disaster.   If gun extremism keeps the GOP from credibly appealing to the millions of voters concerned with unremitting gun violence, then the future is clear - the 2A is done.   

The problem is you are missing the point.  Depending on how this enacted it could cause more harm than it tries to prevent.  Disarming people that use a firearm to not be attacked is a real concern.  Another women raped doesn't make the headlines of shooting a couple dozen people, but women are raped far more often.  Many people are attacked every day.  If you just dismiss our concern without trying to address it, you are doing no better than you accuse the other side of doing.

[Right_in_Virginia]

I know that you aren't a disingenuous person, @Right_in_Virginia, and I believe that your intentions are honorable and focused on the good.

Thank you for that @EdJames

But the focus should be on the items that you mention ("our failing mental health care, the importance (not the breakdown) of the family unit, fathers working with mothers, limiting the internet for developing hearts, minds and souls, working with community leaders and faith leaders .... the list is endless and each item on the list addresses the root cause of the carnage.") without inserting liberty-depriving red flag laws into the mix.  I know that you (and many others) would like to believe that they would work in the way intended, but countless posts in numerous threads here this week have done a very good job of explaining how they will fail both in intended results (stop killing) and the "unintended" consequences of deprivation of citizens' rights.

Before we can shift the focus to the other issues, we must first address the blood that's been spilled and the humanity wounded.

Red laws, rightly written and carried out, will help us get a handle on the mentally ill who are killing us. And as I said, if these laws stop one rampage, we have done well.   

I just do not understand the resistance to this.  If you truly believe guns don't kill people, that people do ... then focus on those people.  In 2019, red laws may be the only way to protect the American gun rights enshrined in 1787.