Dayton shooter used a modified gun that may have exploited a legal loophole

[edpc]

CINCINNATI – Even though it looked like a rifle, the gun used to kill nine people and wound at least 14 more was likely classified as a pistol, skirting laws restricting short-barreled rifles.

Will the device on Connor Betts' weapon, called a "pistol brace," become the next bump stock in nation's gun control debate?

https://www.yahoo.com/news/dayton-shooter-used-modified-gun-234559889.html

[edpc]

Will the device on Connor Betts' weapon, called a "pistol brace," become the next bump stock in nation's gun control debate?


That is practically guaranteed.

[rustynail]

Ban all 'Acessories' just to be safe.  A weapon may only be owned only
in from the factory condition.

[goatprairie]

The squawking about bump stocks and other gadgets to increase rate of fire on certain firearms is pointless. Limiting bullets for magazines is pointless.
Any determined killer can just buy two or three handguns, get enough ammo and/or magazines, and go do their dirty work.  If you read accounts, plenty of killers have reloaded and continued their slaughters.
The only counters are armed citizens returning fire and better procedures to try and stop these nuts before they kill.
Even if all that is successful, there will be the ones who slip through and do their evil.
The disarming of American citizens will cause more deaths than if everybody's semi-automatic firearm was taken away.
There are never accounts of innocent people using firearms to protect themselves from people assaulting them. But guns are used hundreds of thousands of times annually by citizens to prevent or stop violent crimes in the process. The lib media never prints those stories.

[Elderberry]

Ban all 'Acessories' just to be safe.  A weapon may only be owned only
in from the factory condition.

You can currently purchase from the firearms dealer of your choice AR15 Pistols in varying configurations, many with pistol braces.

[skeeter]

So are we to conclude that if it weren't for the pistol brace all of those people would be alive today?

[dfwgator]

So are we to conclude that if it weren't for the pistol brace all of those people would be alive today?

"We need safer bullets." - Jocelyn Elders

[edpc]

So are we to conclude that if it weren't for the pistol brace all of those people would be alive today?

Why not? The same argument has been made over bump stocks, drum mags, and suppressors.

[PeteS in CA]

Nothing on Betts' criminal record would have prevented him from buying a gun.

If the @#$% school he had attended had done its job properly after the "rape list" and "hit list" incidents, Betts could either have had a criminal and/or a mental health record that would have precluded legally purchasing his gun. Just as the Parkland shooter should have had a criminal and/or a mental health record and been precluded from legally purchasing a gun.

Ban all 'Acessories' just to be safe.  A weapon may only be owned only
in from the factory condition.

So, no scopes? No slings?

[edpc]

If the @#$% school he had attended had done its job properly after the "rape list" and "hit list" incidents, Betts could either have had a criminal and/or a mental health record that would have precluded legally purchasing his gun. Just as the Parkland shooter should have had a criminal and/or a mental health record and been precluded from legally purchasing a gun.

Unless provisions were made in the laws, it might not show up anyway, given they were juveniles. Devin Kelly is a better example. He had a record under the UCMJ, which did not get transferred over to the civilian system, to prevent his unlawful purchase.

[PeteS in CA]

You can currently purchase from the firearms dealer of your choice AR15 Pistols in varying configurations, many with pistol braces.

Trying to control a pistol firing a rifle round must be, ummm, interesting. At any rate, at this point is it known whether what the Dayton shooter used was a pistol with a brace or an illegally modified rifle? If the the latter, then this discussion of pistol braces is interesting and informative (I'm not being sarcastic), but not pertinent to the Dayton shooting.

[thackney]

Trying to control a pistol firing a rifle round must be, ummm, interesting. At any rate, at this point is it known whether what the Dayton shooter used was a pistol with a brace or an illegally modified rifle? If the the latter, then this discussion of pistol braces is interesting and informative (I'm not being sarcastic), but not pertinent to the Dayton shooting.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dayton-shooter-s-gun-called-orchestra-metal-hellfire-n1039476

AM-15 made by Anderson Manufacturing

with 100-round double-drum magazines

The weapon was unique for reasons that go beyond the massive magazines, according to four former ATF agents. It featured a short barrel and a pistol brace, also known as a blade, which attaches to the backs of handguns to allow users to strap them under their arms to provide more control.

Kentucky-based Anderson Manufacturing confirmed that it sold the lower receiver, the part of the gun that houses the trigger, that was used in the Dayton shooting. But it remains unclear how the weapon reached its final form.

Was it purchased as a rifle and modified to have a shorter barrel? That would be illegal.

Was it purchased as a receiver and built to resemble a rifle? That would be legal.

[rustynail]

[PeteS in CA]

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/dayton-shooter-s-gun-called-orchestra-metal-hellfire-n1039476

AM-15 made by Anderson Manufacturing
...

Fourth paragraph:

If the gun was purchased legally, "then the question is did he do anything from the period of purchasing it to using it to make it illegal," said David Chipman, a retired agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

10th paragraph:

"It's a semi-automatic rifle or pistol that has the same lethality or a greater lethality than a Thompson machine gun, that we heavily regulated because it is a machine gun," Chipman, who now works for the Giffords gun control group, said.

Interesting that NBC didn't reveal Chipman's current employer when they introduced him as a supposed expert. It's also interesting that Chipman misidentified the Thompson submachine gun. He supposedly is an "expert" yet he misidentified the Thompson, which fires .45 ACP pistol ammo, in a way that hypes its - and therefore the .223 semiautomatic rifle's - image. Being automatic, the Thompson would be more deadly in short range situations like that of Dayton; at longer ranges the .223 would probably be more deadly. In other words, the comparison was apples-oranges, and the "expert" knew his comparison was not honest.

[PeteS in CA]

 Putting together - hopefully correctly - the info above, my question above, "... is it known whether what the Dayton shooter used was a pistol with a brace or an illegally modified rifle?" is the wrong question. If I understand correctly, the shooter's gun was DIY custom-made from parts bought from multiple sources. It's possible that there is no other DIY in the US assembled from the same list of parts. So I asked the wrong question, but there may or may not be a correct question. And the question of whether or not it was a legally-compliant weapon may not be answerable.

[Elderberry]

And the question of whether or not it was a legally-compliant weapon may not be answerable.

Yes it can be answerable in the negative. Can it be proven that it was ever a rifle that was then converted into a pistol?

If not, it is a legally-compliant weapon.

[thackney]

Putting together - hopefully correctly - the info above, my question above, "... is it known whether what the Dayton shooter used was a pistol with a brace or an illegally modified rifle?" is the wrong question. If I understand correctly, the shooter's gun was DIY custom-made from parts bought from multiple sources. It's possible that there is no other DIY in the US assembled from the same list of parts. So I asked the wrong question, but there may or may not be a correct question. And the question of whether or not it was a legally-compliant weapon may not be answerable.

Understand than 10s of thousands of people buy this in parts to make their own specific set up.  Some of those are fully legal in some states and not in others.  I bought mine from someone building a few specific different set ups but also did custom work.  Not in anyway unusual.

[Elderberry]

That Anderson AM-15 must be very popular. I checked and the rifle I built has the same lower. I built 2 uppers for it, both rifles. a 6.5 Grendel with a 24" bbl. and a .358Yeti with a 18" bbl.

And my son's latest built also utilized the same lower that he built into a pistol with a 300 Blackout bbl.

[PeteS in CA]

I'm aware that DIY guns are not unusual and can be done legally. It's a way of getting exactly (more or less) what you want (or can afford). Those who build their own also learn the necessary skills.