Author Topic: Biden: Drug Companies Will Have to ‘Come to Us’ and ‘We Will Set the Price’  (Read 1913 times)

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Online mystery-ak

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By Craig Bannister | July 31, 2019 | 9:08 PM EDT


Companies that develop drugs will have to go to the Health and Human Services Department (HHS) to be told what they’ll be allowed to charge for their products if Joe Biden is elected president, the former vice president declared Wednesday during the Democrat presidential debate.

Biden made the claim while defending his health care plan against the charge that it would not cover everyone in America, adding that his administration would also dictate any price increases:

    “My plan does cover everyone, number one. Number two, the fact is that my plan also calls for controlling drug prices. The biopharma is now where things are going to go. It’s no longer chemicals.

    “It's about all the breakthroughs we have with the whole -- excuse me, immune system.

    “And, what we have to do now is we have to have a form that sits in the HHS and says: as you develop a drug, you got to come to us and decide what you can sell it for.

    “We will set the price. And, secondly, it says that you cannot raise that price beyond the cost of inflation from this point on.”

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https://www.cnsnews.com/blog/craig-bannister/bidens-health-care-plan-drug-companies-will-have-come-us-and-we-will-set-price
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Companies that develop drugs will have to go to the Health and Human Services Department (HHS) to be told what they’ll be allowed to charge for their products

Unbelievable. 
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Offline edpc

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It’s not unbelievable. It’s exactly what happens in European countries that control healthcare. Plus, this admin has proposed using that index for price matching.


Trump Proposes Setting Some Drug Prices Using Global Index

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-25/trump-to-attack-global-freeloading-in-drug-price-address


Trump aims to make US drug prices like Europe's

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-aims-to-make-us-drug-prices-like-europes/ar-AAEQaLq
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline PeteS in CA

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This is pretty much what fascism does in an economy. Unlike its Marxian sibling that kills business owners and confiscates their companies, fascism lets businesses continue, as dictated by government.
If, as anti-Covid-vaxxers claim, https://www.poynter.org/fact-checking/2021/robert-f-kennedy-jr-said-the-covid-19-vaccine-is-the-deadliest-vaccine-ever-made-thats-not-true/ , https://gospelnewsnetwork.org/2021/11/23/covid-shots-are-the-deadliest-vaccines-in-medical-history/ , The Vaccine is deadly, where in the US have Pfizer and Moderna hidden the millions of bodies of those who died of "vaccine injury"? Is reality a Big Pharma Shill?

Millions now living should have died. Anti-Covid-Vaxxer ghouls hardest hit.

Online rustynail

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Joe needs to read a couple of chapters of that Russian-American writer's book.

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It’s not unbelievable. It’s exactly what happens in European countries that control healthcare. Plus, this admin has proposed using that index for price matching.


Trump Proposes Setting Some Drug Prices Using Global Index

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-10-25/trump-to-attack-global-freeloading-in-drug-price-address


Trump aims to make US drug prices like Europe's

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/trump-aims-to-make-us-drug-prices-like-europes/ar-AAEQaLq

Get back to me when Trump promises to force drug companies to come to him on bended knee when they need to decide what to charge, like Biteme said in his most idiotic comment last night.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline edpc

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Get back to me when Trump promises to force drug companies to come to him on bended knee when they need to decide what to charge, like Biteme said in his most idiotic comment last night.


What’s this sound like to you?


“Why should other nations like Canada, why should other nations pay much less than us? They’ve taken advantage of the system for a long time, Pharma, so we’re working on right now a favored nations law so that whatever the lowest nation is anywhere in the world, or company, then what happens is we will pay that amount. That’s being worked on right now,” Trump said.

https://nypost.com/2019/07/05/trump-promises-he-will-force-big-pharma-to-lower-drug-prices/
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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What’s this sound like to you?


“Why should other nations like Canada, why should other nations pay much less than us? They’ve taken advantage of the system for a long time, Pharma, so we’re working on right now a favored nations law so that whatever the lowest nation is anywhere in the world, or company, then what happens is we will pay that amount. That’s being worked on right now,” Trump said.

https://nypost.com/2019/07/05/trump-promises-he-will-force-big-pharma-to-lower-drug-prices/

He's still not saying that the government determines the actual price.  He's just saying that they can't sell it for less overseas than they sell it for here.  But the drug companies themselves still get to determine what that price is.

I would agree that is still terrible policy, though.

« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 08:26:17 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Sanguine

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I was wondering why there were suddenly so many "overprescribing of opioids" stories right now.

Offline edpc

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He's still not saying that the government determines the actual price.  He's just saying that they can't sell it for less overseas than they sell it for here.  But the drug companies themselves still get to determine what that price is.

I would agree that is terrible policy, though.


It’s kind of splitting hairs, though. A government, though not our government, is negotiating the price, for another nation. What bothers me the most about it is the fact a system like that looks at the cost effectiveness of a drug, not the overall effectiveness. You may not get something you need, because a government can’t negotiate a good price for it. That is, essentially, a death panel.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

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What’s this sound like to you?


“Why should other nations like Canada, why should other nations pay much less than us? They’ve taken advantage of the system for a long time, Pharma, so we’re working on right now a favored nations law so that whatever the lowest nation is anywhere in the world, or company, then what happens is we will pay that amount. That’s being worked on right now,” Trump said.

https://nypost.com/2019/07/05/trump-promises-he-will-force-big-pharma-to-lower-drug-prices/

Sounds like something different than what Biteme was talking about. I understood him to say he wanted to price the drug first, something no private company can do with a new drug.  I'm sure if the Pharma's put up a convincing argument about a higher price, Biteme (and future Presidents) will always be reasonable.  /sarc
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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I was wondering why there were suddenly so many "overprescribing of opioids" stories right now.

"Orange Big Pharma Bad!!"  (repeat for exactly two minutes, every day.)
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online rustynail

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What if the 'Drug Companies'  give Hunter a little something to
smooth things over?

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What if the 'Drug Companies'  give Hunter a little something to
smooth things over?

You can count on some version of that, the moment the very first application hits his desk.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
Castillo del Cyber Autonomous Zone ~~~~~>                          :dontfeed:

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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It’s kind of splitting hairs, though. A government, though not our government, is negotiating the price, for another nation.

It is still ultimately up to the company to determine the single price at which they want to sell the drug.  Maybe those other governments will say "too expensive, we're not buying", and of course that is their choice as well.

Quote
What bothers me the most about it is the fact a system like that looks at the cost effectiveness of a drug, not the overall effectiveness. You may not get something you need, because a government can’t negotiate a good price for it. That is, essentially, a death panel.

That seems to be an entirely different complaint.  Let's say we leave the government out of it completely.  Suppose the drug company on its own set a price that turns out to be twice what you personally can afford.  How is that different from a "death panel"?  I mean, even where there is either a government or insurance company deciding what they will pay for a drug, individual consumers are still free to pay for them out of their own pocket if they so choose.

Again, I think being able to sell the drug at different prices to different countries ultimately benefits consumers here in the U.S., which is why I don't like the idea of saying that whatever price the drug company chooses to charge, it has to be the same everywhere.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 08:58:02 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline edpc

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It is still ultimately up to the company to determine the single price at which they want to sell the drug.  Maybe those other governments will say "too expensive, we're not buying", and of course that is their choice as well.


Quote
That seems to be an entirely different complaint.  Let's say we leave the government out of it completely.  Suppose the drug company on its own set a price that turns out to be twice what you personally can afford.  How is that different from a "death panel"?  I mean, even where there is either a government or insurance company deciding what they will pay for a drug, individual consumers are still free to pay for them out of their own pocket if they so choose.

Again, I think being able to sell the drug at different prices to different countries ultimately makes it cheaper for consumers here in the U.S., which is why I don't like the idea of saying that whatever price the drug company chooses to charge, it has to be the same everywhere.


The problem is, the drug companies MUST deal with governments, in other nations, because they run the healthcare systems. We end up paying more, because they make it up on the back end, after giving other nations the discount. What's likely to happen, if we get into this game where the pharma companies have to honor the lowest price, is they'll do the bare minimum to develop new treatments, if they bother at all. It's similar to the development of the polio vaccine. The saying at the time was 'put government in charge of treating polio and we'll develop the world's best iron lung.'
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Sanguine

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The problem is, the drug companies MUST deal with governments, in other nations, because they run the healthcare systems. We end up paying more, because they make it up on the back end, after giving other nations the discount. What's likely to happen, if we get into this game where the pharma companies have to honor the lowest price, is they'll do the bare minimum to develop new treatments, if they bother at all. It's similar to the development of the polio vaccine. The saying at the time was 'put government in charge of treating polio and we'll develop the world's best iron lung.'

Exactly right. 

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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The problem is, the drug companies MUST deal with governments, in other nations, because they run the healthcare systems. We end up paying more, because they make it up on the back end, after giving other nations the discount. What's likely to happen, if we get into this game where the pharma companies have to honor the lowest price, is they'll do the bare minimum to develop new treatments, if they bother at all. It's similar to the development of the polio vaccine. The saying at the time was 'put government in charge of treating polio and we'll develop the world's best iron lung.'

Well, yes and no.  The drug companies can always choose not to sell the drug in those other countries below the (higher) price they want to charge in the U.S..  It would all depend upon whether the increased volume that comes from selling the drug overseas makes up for the lower price at which they'd have to sell it in the U.S..

But either way -- 1) keeping the price high here and not selling it overseas, or 2) lowering the price here to match what it is sold for overseas, the net result is going to be lower revenues from the development of that drug.  And if they expect revenues to be lower, then they're not going to invest in as many new drugs.

And that's why I'd agree with you that requiring drug makes to sell it at the same price here as they sell it overseas ultimately is a bad idea that will hurt Americans.  It's just not as bad as the U.S. government setting the actual price at which the drug must be sold.


Online berdie

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I understand all of the pro/con arguments.

But from what I read...a great deal of the research is federally (taxpayer) subsidized. So haven't we already paid for the development of the drugs?

Offline edpc

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Exactly right.


Yes, but people look at it as good for them and bad for us, so we need to do the same thing. It ends up being bad for everyone, because the governmental beauracracy is part of what makes the drugs so expensive, in the first place. You want a regulatory body like the FDA to keep companies accountable. However, you can't realistically impose stringent regulations, then say we won't pay the costs of it. That's absurd.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Online The_Reader_David

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Alright folks.  Take a deep breath, and consider:  when a good or service is sold in a "natural monopoly" due to the absurdity of introducing redundant infrastructure to produce competition, we call the provision of the good or service a utility and regulate prices in the public interest, at least when demand for the good or service is inelastic because it's a necessity (e.g. clean drinking water provided to the tap, which we have usually socialized at the local level, or electricity or piped-in natural gas which we haven't).  This is not obnoxious to free market economics because there is not a free market in such goods or services. 

Explain, then, why so many on this board regard the regulation of price of goods with inelastic demand because they are necessities (e.g. the only effective drug for a potentially fatal illness) which are sold under an artificial monopoly called a "patent" created only by government intervention in the market is obnoxious to free market economics.  Development costs?  Nope, utilities also have sunk costs in infrastructure, but they are regulated in the public interest.  There is not a free market in the only treatment for the disease (because the government has granted a monopoly on it) any more than there is a free market for tap water -- development costs provide no moral basis for the collection of monopoly rents on the drug any more than infrastructure costs provide a moral basis for monopoly rents on tap water -- the more-so when those development cost have been paid in part or whole with tax-payer funds under grants from the NIH or NSF.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2019, 09:17:08 pm by The_Reader_David »
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Online Maj. Bill Martin

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I understand all of the pro/con arguments.

But from what I read...a great deal of the research is federally (taxpayer) subsidized. So haven't we already paid for the development of the drugs?

Not unless the drug is developed with only federal money.

Offline edpc

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I understand all of the pro/con arguments.

But from what I read...a great deal of the research is federally (taxpayer) subsidized. So haven't we already paid for the development of the drugs?


No


Those private sector efforts are now the dominant form of research activity in the United States, with business spending $3 on research for every $1 invested by the U.S. government. In the 1960s the federal government outspent industry by a two-to-one margin, but the balance tipped in 1980.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/03/data-check-us-government-share-basic-research-funding-falls-below-50
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Online berdie

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No


Those private sector efforts are now the dominant form of research activity in the United States, with business spending $3 on research for every $1 invested by the U.S. government. In the 1960s the federal government outspent industry by a two-to-one margin, but the balance tipped in 1980.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/03/data-check-us-government-share-basic-research-funding-falls-below-50



Thanks for that info. Not that I doubt you, but I may have to do a little more research.  It could, will change my opinion on this matter.

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Biden: Drug Companies Will Have to ‘Come to Us’ and ‘We Will Set the Price’

And yet it's Trump that gets called "authoritarian" and a "dictator"   *****rollingeyes*****
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