Military studying 'hyperfit' women who pass its toughest physical, mental courses

[rangerrebew]

Military studying 'hyperfit' women who pass its toughest physical, mental courses

By Frank Miles | Fox News


Who are the “hyperfit” women of the military, capable of its most arduous physical and mental courses, and what makes them so competitive?

Army medical researchers have aimed to uncover answers in a just-launched voluntary study.

During early debate on the move to open all combat jobs to women, military leaders raised questions about whether women were up to the jobs or if putting them on the front lines would make units less capable. The Marine Corps sought an exemption to keep some combat jobs closed for precisely that reason, then-Defense Secretary Ash Carter overruled it.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/hyperfit-women-military-courses-study

[sneakypete]

Military studying 'hyperfit' women who pass its toughest physical, mental courses

By Frank Miles | Fox News


Who are the “hyperfit” women of the military, capable of its most arduous physical and mental courses, and what makes them so competitive?

Army medical researchers have aimed to uncover answers in a just-launched voluntary study.

During early debate on the move to open all combat jobs to women, military leaders raised questions about whether women were up to the jobs or if putting them on the front lines would make units less capable. The Marine Corps sought an exemption to keep some combat jobs closed for precisely that reason, then-Defense Secretary Ash Carter overruled it.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/hyperfit-women-military-courses-study

@rangerrebew

I guess we will soon find out if the army has any Officers with degrees in Creative Writing,but there is no way in HELL the truth will ever be accepted in the PC world of today.

[skeeter]

Didn't the Germans try a different version of this back in the 30s?

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Perhaps they could look into why those hyperfit women couldn't pass all those courses as previously constructed, and why the standards had to be changed first.

Also, the bigger problem is not whether those or any other women can achieve a relatively short period of peak fitness where they can pass (albeit in the lowest percentiles) those courses.  It's whether they can maintain that level of fitness as they age, and whether their bodies can hold up physically/medically to the longer term demands of carrying extremely heavy weights, etc....

[sneakypete]

Perhaps they could look into why those hyperfit women couldn't pass all those courses as previously constructed, and why the standards had to be changed first.

Also, the bigger problem is not whether those or any other women can achieve a relatively short period of peak fitness where they can pass (albeit in the lowest percentiles) those courses.  It's whether they can maintain that level of fitness as they age, and whether their bodies can hold up physically/medically to the longer term demands of carrying extremely heavy weights, etc....

@Maj. Bill Martin

You and I both know none of these women want a career as a grunt. What the want is a tour as a company commander with an infantry company in combat,so they can write themselves  up for a CIB,Bronze Star,and even a Purple Heart if they cut a leg while shaving,and then use that as the creds they need to get a staff job. Once they make Major they are home free and can work staff jobs for the rest of their careers as they work the system to get stars.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@Maj. Bill Martin

You and I both know none of these women want a career as a grunt. What the want is a tour as a company commander with an infantry company in combat,so they can write themselves  up for a CIB,Bronze Star,and even a Purple Heart if they cut a leg while shaving,and then use that as the creds they need to get a staff job. Once they make Major they are home free and can work staff jobs for the rest of their careers as they work the system to get stars.

Bingo.  It's ticket punching because they won't be able to handle the physical rigors.  They may not even need to get a company.  One tour as an 0302 (Inf. Off), just as a Lt., and then it'll be staff jobs after that.

@sneakypete

You and I both know what happens once they're out of school - the guys will have to carry some of their gear, they won't have to carrry a mortar baseplate or the machine gun, etc...  Been on way too many training exercises and seen that happen, and that was 30 years ago.  No way in hell the system doesn't protect them even more nowadays.

[sneakypete]

Bingo.  It's ticket punching because they won't be able to handle the physical rigors.  They may not even need to get a company.  One tour as an 0302 (Inf. Off), just as a Lt., and then it'll be staff jobs after that.

@sneakypete

You and I both know what happens once they're out of school - the guys will have to carry some of their gear, they won't have to carrry a mortar baseplate or the machine gun, etc...  Been on way too many training exercises and seen that happen, and that was 30 years ago.  No way in hell the system doesn't protect them even more nowadays.

@Maj. Bill Martin

Yup. I'd LOVE to see one of the airborne whymen officers do an equipment jump carrying a spare M-2 barrel in addition to their basic combat load and parachute. My first jump out of jump school was a night jump from a C-47 over Neighmagen (spelling) drop zone at Bragg,carrying a spare M-2 barrel. That taught me everything I would ever need to know about being a heavy weapons NCO.

[Sanguine]

I know one of these women.  In her mid 70's now, and a very small person so comparing her to a 6' male would be ridiculous, but she can and does regularly outwork men younger than her.  Physical work.  She exhausts me just to watch.

Oh, and she is retired military. 

[Fishrrman]

Jes' one more stupid idea that isn't going to work.

Women are not designed to be soldiers, stop trying to pretend that they are.

[sneakypete]

I know one of these women.  In her mid 70's now, and a very small person so comparing her to a 6' male would be ridiculous, but she can and does regularly outwork men younger than her.  Physical work.  She exhausts me just to watch.

Oh, and she is retired military.

@Sanguine

I am betting that on the best day she ever saw she would flunk out of Ranger School,circa 1965. There might be 3 women in 100,000 that could do that,and 2 of them would need to be mainlining steroids even then.

[Sanguine]

@Sanguine

I am betting that on the best day she ever saw she would flunk out of Ranger School,circa 1965. There might be 3 women in 100,000 that could do that,and 2 of them would need to be mainlining steroids even then.

You are correct, she is a small female.  I was just addressing all the sneering that y'all were doing.  She had a long career and more than carried her own weight.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

When you say that she had a long career and more than carried her own (very little) weight, was her career in the infantry, armor, or artillery?  Because if not, it has zero relevant to a discussion regarding the physical requirements of combat arms, and even less relevant to the physical requirements required of more elite, physically demanding units like Rangers and Marines.

[sneakypete]

When you say that she had a long career and more than carried her own (very little) weight, was her career in the infantry, armor, or artillery?  Because if not, it has zero relevant to a discussion regarding the physical requirements of combat arms, and even less relevant to the physical requirements required of more elite, physically demanding units like Rangers and Marines.

@Maj. Bill Martin

And there it is,the uncomfortable truths the whymen's libbers and other leftists never want anyone to hear.

[Sanguine]

When you say that she had a long career and more than carried her own (very little) weight, was her career in the infantry, armor, or artillery?  Because if not, it has zero relevant to a discussion regarding the physical requirements of combat arms, and even less relevant to the physical requirements required of more elite, physically demanding units like Rangers and Marines.

Re-read my comment.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

Re-read my comment.

Nobody was sneering at the idea of military women performing very well in non-combat jobs.  I worked with some great women Marines who were very good at their jobs, and some of them were in really good shape.

We're sneering at the myth that is being pushed by gender activists regarding the physical ability of women to perform in elite combat arms units.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@Maj. Bill Martin

And there it is,the uncomfortable truths the whymen's libbers and other leftists never want anyone to hear.

They simply won't listen.  Too many of them have bought into the Hollywood myths, or the very carefully crafted and phrased "success stories" of females succeeding at some of those elite military tasks.  Their factual understanding of reality is flawed, so no argument is possible.

I spent more than two years instructing newly commissioned male and female Marine Lts. at the Basic School in Quantico.  I saw it all up close and unvarnished, thousands of them.  Most of the women put forth incredible effort, and most were in very good shape for women.  But without exception, the longer you were in the field, and the longer they were asked to perform  physically demanding tasks, the greater the gulf grew.

Thing is...some of the guys -- all of whom were in very good shape -- weren't even cut out physically to be infantry officers, so they wouldn't be assigned to be 03's when it came to assigning MOS's.  The standards were higher than just "really in-shape males".

[sneakypete]

They simply won't listen.  Too many of them have bought into the Hollywood myths, or the very carefully crafted and phrased "success stories" of females succeeding at some of those elite military tasks.  Their factual understanding of reality is flawed, so no argument is possible.

I spent more than two years instructing newly commissioned male and female Marine Lts. at the Basic School in Quantico.  I saw it all up close and unvarnished, thousands of them.  Most of the women put forth incredible effort, and most were in very good shape for women.  But without exception, the longer you were in the field, and the longer they were asked to perform  physically demanding tasks, the greater the gulf grew.

Thing is...some of the guys -- all of whom were in very good shape -- weren't even cut out physically to be infantry officers, so they wouldn't be assigned to be 03's when it came to assigning MOS's.  The standards were higher than just "really in-shape males".

@Maj. Bill Martin

What you look for in young officers you are grooming for combat commands is the ones with the freak personality that makes them function and think BETTER under pressure than when things are calm. Some people not only seem to calm down when the bullets are flying,but even seem to be smiling and enjoying themselves. Born warriors. I've seen this,and I know you have,too. THESE are the people you want commanding rifle platoons and companies

[berdie]

Myself...When I was young I had the physical stamina...but not the emotional.

Today...I could cut your liver out and feed it to my dog, but I just don't have the strength.

Oh well, If the armed forces could have had those two people at the same time....

[Victoria33]

@sneakypete
@Cyber Liberty
@mystery-ak

The reality is this:

Physical differences in men/women:
1. Man Muscles - a man's body is made of long string muscles that can be enhanced by physical training to become large and hard enabling more weight to be carried or lifted than women can do.
2.  Woman Muscles - a woman's muscles are soft and short.  They will never equal men in physical  work no matter their mindset.

Comparing running muscles of men and women:
1.  A woman's hips are broader on their body than a man's.  These type hips are necessary to carry and deliver a baby.  With the woman's hips where they are, more outward from the body than a man's hip, the woman is knock-kneed as a runner.  Picture a woman's body with extended hips, then the leg that is outward running.  It will turn inward just as the other leg does, and if you stop both of them there, one knee is next to the other knee - knock-kneed. 

2.  Remember, the man has long string muscles that can be built up to be stronger.  His hips do not extended as far out as a woman's so he runs with straight legs forward.  He can run longer than a woman and she is hindered by being knock-kneed.

I speak from experience as I was a runner in high school and university.  My university record for the 50 yd. dash and hurdles have never been broken.  I could outrun any boy in elementary and jr. high school.  Why?  A number of years ago, I had a problem with my right knee.  The orthopedic doctor wanted an MRI of my knee.  So, I am where MRIs are done and the woman technician was placing my right leg where it needed to be in the MRI machine.  Then, she stopped and said she had to adjust the machine for my leg.  She said, "You were a runner, weren't you?"  I asked how she iknew that.  She said my leg from the knee down was longer than a normal woman's leg. That is why I could outrun women and outrun boys who had not come into their own as men.

Human Male Genes:  Men Mental Mindset
Men were born with the instinct to populate the world.  It takes a woman to complete his innate desire.  He will gravitate to a woman if she is there.  This innate desire requires him to be acceptable to the woman and he will do something so she will choose him.  Put those two in a dangerous situation, and no matter what rank either of them are, he will try to save the woman.  Now, put several men with one woman, and they will all try to save the woman.  They can't help it, it is in their genes.  No woman should be in a dangerous war situation with men - they are diminished in mental thinking with a woman there and they don't even know it.

Human Female Genes: Women Mental Mindset
Female genes cause a woman to look for a protector/provider for her family.  Makes no difference that she has no children, the gene is there to find the protector/provider.  A woman will go for the larger man for protection and the man with more money or enough money to care for her family.  She doesn't turn this desire off when in the military for she most likely doesn't know what she is doing.  This is another reason not to have females with males in a close encounter with an enemy.

There are smart men and smart women  - place them where each sex can be successful - not in a foxhole together.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@Maj. Bill Martin

What you look for in young officers you are grooming for combat commands is the ones with the freak personality that makes them function and think BETTER under pressure than when things are calm. Some people not only seem to calm down when the bullets are flying,but even seem to be smiling and enjoying themselves. Born warriors. I've seen this,and I know you have,too. THESE are the people you want commanding rifle platoons and companies

@sneakypete

Absolutely correct.  The problem is that it is extremely difficult to identify ahead of time who those guys are until the bullets do start flying.  Some guys fall apart, most to well enough...but then you have that few who seemingly are born to it.  You try to get it right, but it is amazing how much some guys will surprise you.

At OCS in Quantico, the main chow hall is Bobo Hall - named for a 2nd Lt. who was awarded the MoH posthumously in Vietnam.  Thing is, the guy apparently was someone who was considered awkward, introverted, and not well suited to the infantry.  Other candidates mocked him, etc., and even his instructors questioned whether he should graduate.  Heard all that verbatim from a colonel who had been assigned to OCS as a captain at the time.  Here is his citation:

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty as Weapons Platoon Commander, Company I, Third Battalion, Ninth Marines, Third Marine Division, in Quang Tri Province, Republic of Vietnam, on 30 March 1967. Company I was establishing night ambush sites when the command group was attacked by a reinforced North Vietnamese company supported by heavy automatic weapons and mortar fire. Lieutenant BOBO immediately organized a hasty defense and moved from position to position encouraging the outnumbered Marines despite the murderous enemy fire. Recovering a rocket launcher from among the friendly casualties, he organized a new launcher team and directed its fire into the enemy machine gun position. When an exploding enemy mortar round severed Lieutenant Bobo's right leg below the knee, he refused to be evacuated and insisted upon being placed in a firing position to cover the movement of the command group to a better location. With a web belt around his leg serving as tourniquet and with his leg jammed into the dirt to curtail the bleeding, he remained in this position and delivered devastating fire into the ranks of the enemy attempting to overrun the Marines. Lieutenant BOBO was mortally wounded while firing his weapon into the main point of the enemy attack but his valiant spirit inspired his men to heroic efforts, and his tenacious stand enabled the command group to gain a protective position where it repulsed the enemy onslaught. Lieutenant BOBO's superb leadership, dauntless courage, and bold initiative reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and the United States Naval Service. He gallantly gave his life for his country.

So, because we can measure that kind of thing imperfectly at best, we go off the important standards that we can measure, including the necessary level of fitness

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete

Absolutely correct.  The problem is that it is extremely difficult to identify ahead of time who those guys are until the bullets do start flying.  Some guys fall apart, most to well enough...but then you have that few who seemingly are born to it.  You try to get it right, but it is amazing how much some guys will surprise you.

At OCS in Quantico, the main chow hall is Bobo Hall - named for a 2nd Lt. who was awarded the MoH posthumously in Vietnam.  Thing is, the guy apparently was someone who was considered awkward, introverted, and not well suited to the infantry.  Other candidates mocked him, etc., and even his instructors questioned whether he should graduate.  Heard all that verbatim from a colonel who had been assigned to OCS as a captain at the time.  Here is his citation:

For conspicuous gallantry and intrepidity at the risk of his life above and beyond the call of duty as Weapons Platoon Commander, Company I, Third Battalion, Ninth Marines, Third Marine Division, in Quang Tri Province, Republic of Vietnam, on 30 March 1967. Company I was establishing night ambush sites when the command group was attacked by a reinforced North Vietnamese company supported by heavy automatic weapons and mortar fire. Lieutenant BOBO immediately organized a hasty defense and moved from position to position encouraging the outnumbered Marines despite the murderous enemy fire. Recovering a rocket launcher from among the friendly casualties, he organized a new launcher team and directed its fire into the enemy machine gun position. When an exploding enemy mortar round severed Lieutenant Bobo's right leg below the knee, he refused to be evacuated and insisted upon being placed in a firing position to cover the movement of the command group to a better location. With a web belt around his leg serving as tourniquet and with his leg jammed into the dirt to curtail the bleeding, he remained in this position and delivered devastating fire into the ranks of the enemy attempting to overrun the Marines. Lieutenant BOBO was mortally wounded while firing his weapon into the main point of the enemy attack but his valiant spirit inspired his men to heroic efforts, and his tenacious stand enabled the command group to gain a protective position where it repulsed the enemy onslaught. Lieutenant BOBO's superb leadership, dauntless courage, and bold initiative reflected great credit upon himself and upheld the highest traditions of the Marine Corps and the United States Naval Service. He gallantly gave his life for his country.

So, because we can measure that kind of thing imperfectly at best, we go off the important standards that we can measure, including the necessary level of fitness

@Maj. Bill Martin

I have served with,or under,several MoH winners,and it seems like their personalities run the full spectrum from introvert/troubled loner,to "life of the party" guys. Two stand out as genuine nice,quiet,respectful guys you would ever dream of being capable of doing the things they did. Roy Benavidez,and Ola Mize.

BTW,a shout out to the Yaqui Indian tribe in honor of Roy!

Roy was a SFC/E-7 when I first met him,and that was on some sort of forgotten field training exercise. Quiet,unassuming,and willing to be a friend to anyone,including a young E-4 with a hangover. I served with him a couple of times,and never once even heard him raise his voice. Seemed like he was always smiling and looking happy any time I ran into him.

Yet this same man took it upon himself to grab a medics bag and jump on  a rescue helicopter armed only with a Bowie knife,and fly into Cambodia to try to provide medical care to a 27 man Hatchet Force platoon that was surrounded by hundreds of NVA,and taking heavy causalities. They had inserted into a NVA Battalion headquarters rear area that had reinforced MG bunkers and Soviet AA guns. The fire was so intense the helicopter couldn't get close,so Roy told them to let him out in the nearest cleaning they could find,and he would continue on foot from there. Alone,and only armed with a Bowie Knife. You sometimes hear jokes about going to a gunfight while armed only with a knife,but you never hear about going into a gunfight against literally hundreds of infantry soldiers armed with full-auto assault rifles while being armed with only a knife. IIRC,they landed maybe 100 yards away,and Roy Proceeded on alone and on foot,but showed up with his first wound of the day, and armed with an AK-47.

By the time that day was over,Roy was the last man to leave on the last helicopter,had been wounded several times,and could barely walk. In fact,a door gunner had to jump out of the slick to help him get aboard. The last NVA killed on that LZ was killed by Roy with his Bowie knife,and when the helicopter pulled off the door gunner could see him laying there near where the tail of the slick had been,with the knife sticking up out of his chest. He had attacked Roy with his bayonet fixed,and IIRC,got him in the shoulder with it.

When they got to the closest hospital,the doc thought he was dead. He had lost so much blood and was so weak he couldn't even talk,but he could hear. When he heard the doc that was listening to his heart say he was dead and to "bag him",Roy spit in his face to let him know he wasn't dead. All total,I think he was wounded on 7 separate occasions that day.

BTW,Roy was not only NOT a SF medic,he wasn't even on a team or a platoon. He was around 40,had broken his back on a parachute jump a couple of years earlier and still recovering from that,and had already served a couple of combat tours in VN,so they had him doing some sort of staff job at the FOB. He didn't even volunteer to do it. He just heard the radio cry for help,and ran straight to the slick after stopping by the dispensary to grab a medic's bag.

The other guy was Ola Mize. He was without a doubt in my mind the kindest and most gentle sounding and appearing man I had ever met. He was a LTC,and my company commander when I first met him on Okinawa. Appearances can be deceiving,since he was also one of those 19 year old infantry Master Sergeants in the Korean War. Ola was leading a platoon on outpost position set there to warn the main element of any NK attack. They did attack that night,and before the night was over every man in that platoon was either dead or wounded,including Ola. He spent the night putting the most seriously wounded into sleeping bags so they wouldn't freeze,and checking on them during lulls in the fighting. When he wasn't doing that,he was moving from position to position to fire on the NK to try to convince them the force on the hilltop was bigger and more able than it was. He had some wounded who were able to sit or lay and fire,but weren't able to move around ,that helped this illusion.

Just before dawn he ran out of ammunition and had to make a decision to either stay with his wounded and try to keep them alive because he KNEW the NK weren't going to give them any medical treatment,or to try to E&E off the hilltop before sunrise. He decided to stay and surrender so he could give aid to his wounded.

He was standing with his arms raised in surrender when the NK's came on the hilltop,and that was when they made their mistake. They started bayoneting the wounded in their sleeping bags,and that's what popped his cork. He picked up an entrenching tool,and commenced crushing NK heads with it. He was so aggressive they ran off the hill to get away from him.

When the relief force got to the top of the hill shortly after sunrise,the company commander didn't even recognize him due to all the blood,gunsmoke,and mud he was covered with.

 Ola and Roy are dead now. IIRC,they died a few years ago. Neither will ever be forgotten,though.

If you had met either of these men,either before or after they were awarded a MoH,you would never have guessed that either would harm a fly. I have a hard time remembering a time I saw either that they weren't smiling and looking happy. Not even the time LTC Mize caught a certain drunken E-4 in the officers club trying to pick up on officers wives. He even showed up at the table with a free drink and told the idiot to "enjoy your last drink of the night". He was smiling when he said it,too.

[Maj. Bill Martin]

@Maj. Bill Martin

I have served with,or under,several MoH winners,and it seems like their personalities run the full spectrum from introvert/troubled loner,to "life of the party" guys. Two stand out as genuine nice,quiet,respectful guys you would ever dream of being capable of doing the things they did. Roy Benavidez,and Ola Mize.

BTW,a shout out to the Yaqui Indian tribe in honor of Roy!

Roy was a SFC/E-7 when I first met him,and that was on some sort of forgotten field training exercise. Quiet,unassuming,and willing to be a friend to anyone,including a young E-4 with a hangover. I served with him a couple of times,and never once even heard him raise his voice. Seemed like he was always smiling and looking happy any time I ran into him.

Yet this same man took it upon himself to grab a medics bag and jump on  a rescue helicopter armed only with a Bowie knife,and fly into Cambodia to try to provide medical care to a 27 man Hatchet Force platoon that was surrounded by hundreds of NVA,and taking heavy causalities. They had inserted into a NVA Battalion headquarters rear area that had reinforced MG bunkers and Soviet AA guns. The fire was so intense the helicopter couldn't get close,so Roy told them to let him out in the nearest cleaning they could find,and he would continue on foot from there. Alone,and only armed with a Bowie Knife. You sometimes hear jokes about going to a gunfight while armed only with a knife,but you never hear about going into a gunfight against literally hundred of infantry soliders armed with full-auto assault rifles while being armed with only a knife. IIRC,they landed maybe 100 yards away,and Roy Proceeded on alone and on foot,but showed up with his first wound of the day, and armed with an AK-47.

By the time that day was over,Roy was the last man to leave on the last helicopter,had been wounded several times,and could barely walk. In fact,a door gunner had to jump out of the slick to help him get aboard. The last NVA killed on that LZ was killed by Roy with his Bowie knife,and when the helicopter pulled off the door gunner could see him laying there near where the tail of the slick had been,with the knife sticking up out of his chest. He had attacked Roy with his bayonet fixed,and IIRC,got him in the shoulder with it.

When they got to the closest hospital,the doc thought he was dead. He had lost so much blood and was so weak he couldn't even talk,but he could hear. When he heard the doc that was listening to his heart say he was dead and to "bag him",Roy spit in his face to let him know he wasn't dead. All total,I think he was wounded on 7 separate occasions that day.

BTW,Roy was not only NOT a SF medic,he wasn't even on a team or a platoon. He was around 40,had broken his back on a parachute jump a couple of years earlier and still recovering from that,and had already served a couple of combat tours in VN,so they had him doing some sort of staff job at the FOB. He didn't even volunteer to do it. He just heard the radio cry for help,and ran straight to the slick after stopping by the dispensary to grab a medic's bag.

The other guy was Ola Mize. He was without a doubt in my mind the kindest and most gentle sounding and appearing man I had ever met. He was a LTC,and my company commander when I first met him on Okinawa. Appearances can be deceiving,since he was also one of those 19 year old infantry Master Sergeants in the Korean War. Ola was leading a platoon on outpost position set there to warn the main element of any NK attack. They did attack that night,and before the night was over every man in that platoon was either dead or wounded,including Ola. He spent the night putting the most seriously wounded into sleeping bags so they wouldn't freeze,and checking on them during lulls in the fighting. When he wasn't doing that,he was moving from position to position to fire on the NK to try to convince them the force on the hilltop was bigger and more able than it was. He had some wounded who were able to sit or lay and fire,but weren't able to move around ,that helped this illusion.

Just before dawn he ran out of ammunition and had to make a decision to either stay with his wounded and try to keep them alive because he KNEW the NK weren't going to give them any medical treatment,or to try to E&E off the hilltop before sunrise. He decided to stay and surrender so he could give aid to his wounded.

He was standing with his arms raised in surrender when the NK's came on the hilltop,and that was when they made their mistake. They started bayoneting the wounded in their sleeping bags,and that's what popped his cork. He picked up an entrenching tool,and commenced crushing NK heads with it. He was so aggressive they ran off the hill to get away from him.

When the relief force got to the top of the hill shortly after sunrise,the company commander didn't even recognize him due to all the blood,gunsmoke,and mud he was covered with.

 Ola and Roy are dead now. IIRC,they died a few years ago. Neither will ever be forgotten,though.

If you had met either of these men,either before or after they were awarded a MoH,you would never have guessed that either would harm a fly. I have a hard time remembering a time I saw either that they weren't smiling and looking happy. Not even the time LTC Mize caught a certain drunken E-4 in the officers club trying to pick up on officers wives. He even showed up at the table with a free drink and told the idiot to "enjoy your last drink of the night". He was smiling when he said it,too.

Heh -- great stories. And you're right -- you'll never know which guys have that spark.

[Cyber Liberty]

@Maj. Bill Martin

...

Not even the time LTC Mize caught a certain drunken E-4 in the officers club trying to pick up on officers wives. He even showed up at the table with a free drink and told the idiot to "enjoy your last drink of the night". He was smiling when he said it,too.

@sneakypete

That right there is the gentle art of Diplomacy, defined as "telling a man to go to Hell in a way he's happy to be on his way."

[sneakypete]

@sneakypete

That right there is the gentle art of Diplomacy, defined as "telling a man to go to Hell in a way he's happy to be on his way."

@Cyber Liberty

There was absolutely zero danger of that young man getting mouthy with THAT man. Not even while drunk. Anything he had to say would have been fine.

That was a easy night for him. MUCH easier than the night the head cook,a former sailor and NOT SF qualified in any respect,was arrested for drunk and disorderly,and assault and battery on 12 or 14 MP's,including the Desk Officer,whose ribs he cracked. I know all about this one because I was the CQ that night and had to call the Colonel so he could go get him released,and then sign for him when the MP's brought him to the orderly room. 

This cook came to the company as a mild-mannered Navy cook that got out of the Navy due to how hard it was to get promoted past E-5. So he joined the Army as a cook,and had the great good luck to be assigned to a line company in the 1st Special Forces Group. Once there,he fell in with evil companions that tended to be both high-spirited as well as violent. Being a former cook,he didn't have the experience at escape and evasion his compatriots had,so he is the one they caught and got rough with.

Know what his punishment was? He was promoted and sent to jump school on the island until they could get him a slot in SF Training Group. The last time I saw him was a a couple of years later,and by then he was a Master Sgt E-8 and wearing a beret,a Purple Heart,and a Silver Star.  Seems like the army worked out a lot better for him than the Navy did.

Or the night another company cook,this one a E-3 got drunk and went into the field grade officers housing area late at night and banged on his door to call him out in the yard so the cook could "beat his ass". No kidding. When he didn't come out,the kid dropped trou and took a dump on his porch. He was mad because he didn't get promoted to E-4 that month,and Ola had promised him he would be promoted.

I am positive he never came down to try to talk the kid into leaving,because if he had he would have been an official recognition that it happened,and he would have been required to have the MP's arrest him and put  him on charges for threatening an Officer. Which is NOT something the army takes lightly.

Ola came in the next day and apologized to him in public in front of the other cooks for not getting the promotion,and faithfully promised him he WOULD get promoted that month. I am sure the kid didn't realize the mistake wasn't his fault,but most likely the fault of some clerk in Headquarters Company,but Ola apologized anyhow. A few months later,that kid was trying to get on a team.