Author Topic: Comey Comes For Trump Supporters, ‘We Must Send Trump and His Mob Back to Their Dark Corner’  (Read 1335 times)

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Online Jazzhead

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Trump may be a blowhard, but it's precisely what we need right now.   Milquetoast Republicans aren't going to get it done.

That's a false choice.  Trump may be a fighter,  but he aspires to lead a faction, not a nation.   We need to preserve the policy successes of the last several years.   Trump's defeat will doom conservatism to years in the wilderness.    Trump needs to be persuaded to step down IN ORDER TO PRESERVE his victories and extend his policy priorities.  That requires a candidate who can grow the GOP coalition.   Trump is simply too polarizing to do that.   
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Offline Rivergirl

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Can't imagine a worse president than Obama.   Did you lose any liberty?
Do you believe our allies in Europe are of no use in any situation?   Do we never need a coalition in any event?
Or, perhaps common cause with Kim makes up for the disrespect from our allies.

Offline EdJames

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That's a false choice.  Trump may be a fighter,  but he aspires to lead a faction, not a nation.   We need to preserve the policy successes of the last several years.   Trump's defeat will doom conservatism to years in the wilderness.    Trump needs to be persuaded to step down IN ORDER TO PRESERVE his victories and extend his policy priorities.  That requires a candidate who can grow the GOP coalition.   Trump is simply too polarizing to do that.   

Then why the hell don't you go about doing something to get that done?  Instead of effing whining about it constantly on these threads!  You're like an effing broken record.

@Jazzhead

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Online libertybele

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Why is it "elitism" to insist on tact and decorum in public discourse?     Why is it "elitism" to decry the ginning up of mobs?   

I understand perfectly well the "Eff off" attitude toward the Democrats, who are snakes in the grass.   But we can do better than Trump.

If it weren't Trump, their target would have been Cruz.  The snakes in the grass wanted someone like Bush or Kasich who would have continued to play their games.  Name one other person who has stood up to the Washington cartel?  Name one other person who is willing to stand up and challenge Trump and put up with the mudslinging from the leftists and socialists??  Only RINO appeasement will calm them.  Quite frankly, the very last thing we need is another RINO losing to the DEMS.
"I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes. I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey it laws; to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies." -William Page

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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That's a false choice.  Trump may be a fighter,  but he aspires to lead a faction, not a nation.   

And I think that's the false choice.  The country is far too divided on very important, substantive issues for anyone to lead us all in a certain direction.  Fundamentally, we just do not agree on the direction in which we should be led.

Honestly, @Jazzhead , I do like you a lot as a poster, but your mindset strikes me as the exact problem with the more moderate/elitist wing of the GOP.  Putting so much emphasis on unity, decorum, and not "being divisive" ignores that we are no longer in the Cold War, with a perceived common enemy to unify us.  There is no longer a national consensus on capitalism v. socialism, individualism v collectivism, color-blindness as an idea versus race-consciousness, free speech v. restricting "hate-speech", etc.. 

We are factions at this point, and rather bitterly divided ones at that.  And that division isn't based on style or incivility, but on a true conflict of underlying values.  The left understood that first, and so fought aggressively again our judicial nominees while we were still voting 96-3 for Ruth Bader Ginsberg.  And they've been using horrible language against us for decades.  It's gotten to be a running joke how every single GOP Presidential nominee gets tagged as a racist.

I don't agree with some of Trump's needless provocations.  But I agree even less with the view of the moderates/elites in the GOP who refuse to recognize that we're in a real fight, and labor under the delusion of achieving some kind of national unity again.

« Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 02:30:47 PM by Maj. Bill Martin »

Online libertybele

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And I think that's the false choice.  The country is far too divided on very important, substantive issues for anyone to lead us all in a certain direction.  Fundamentally, we just do not agree on the direction in which we should be led.

Honestly, @Jazzhead , I do like you a lot as a poster, but your mindset strikes me as the exact problem with the more moderate/elitist wing of the GOP.  Putting so much emphasis on unity, decorum, and not "being divisive" ignores that we are no longer in the Cold War, with a perceived common enemy to unify us.  There is no longer a national consensus on capitalism v. socialism, individualism v collectivism, color-blindness as an idea versus race-consciousness, etc.. 

We are factions at this point, and rather bitterly divided ones at that.  And that division isn't based on style or incivility, but on a true conflict of underlying values.  The left understood that first, and so fought aggressively again our judicial nominees while we were still voting 96-3 for Ruth Bader Ginsberg.  And they've been using horrible language against us for decades.  It's gotten to be a running joke how every single GOP Presidential nominee gets tagged as a racist.

I don't agree with some of Trump's needless provocations.  But I agree even less with the view of the moderates/elites in the GOP who refuse to recognize that we're in a real fight, and labor under the delusion of achieving some kind of national unity again.

 

:amen:   :patriot: :patriot:
"I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes. I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey it laws; to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies." -William Page

Online truth_seeker

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Trump's defeat will doom conservatism to years in the wilderness.   

Exactly what weak so called Republicans said about  Goldwater, Niixon, Reagan.


Trump's supporters comprise the largest bloc on the Right hands down.

The weak #nevertrumper faction you presume to speak for are laughable, for their losing records, bad predictions, bad advice.


The latest: Mark Sanford. He is all over the place, except solidly reliably behind the majority of conservatives in this country.

"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Trump's supporters comprise the largest bloc on the Right hands down.

If the GOP alienates them, it is completely doomed.  Better to support him and lose, because at least then you can come back with different candidates in 2022 and 2024, and have a shot with a more unified party.  Alienate his supporters, and too many of them won't return because they'll come to believe that the elites are running things no matter who wins the election.

Online truth_seeker

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Is It OK To Punch a Nazi? We Asked Berkeley Students.

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"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Online libertybele

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 Trump's defeat will doom conservatism to years in the wilderness.   

Bull.  What has doomed conservatism is voting again and again for the RINO's in Congress who pretend they are conservative, yet vote along with the DEMS.  The Jeb's, Kasich's, Rubio's, McCain's, Ryans, McConnells, Romneys, and those like them, have doomed conservatism.  Fortunately the biggest culprit is no longer alive to continue to wreak his havoc on the GOP.  Kasich and Jeb are pretty much out to pasture ... unfortunately, though, a little too late, I'm afraid.  Had McCain, Ryan, McConnell and the rest of the RINO's been voted out long ago, we'd be looking at a major victory at the border and a sure victory in 2020.
"I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes. I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey it laws; to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies." -William Page

Online Jazzhead

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Exactly what weak so called Republicans said about  Goldwater, Niixon, Reagan.


Trump's supporters comprise the largest bloc on the Right hands down.

The weak #nevertrumper faction you presume to speak for are laughable, for their losing records, bad predictions, bad advice.


The latest: Mark Sanford. He is all over the place, except solidly reliably behind the majority of conservatives in this country.

I speak for no nevertrump faction, and do not seek the nomination of a "RINO".    I support most of the President's policies and want them to continue.   I support the President's judicial nominees and want more of the same.

But I am realistic enough to realize that with Trump as the nominee we will lose, and may even lose the Senate.    I am realistic enough to recognize that the Dems are increasingly radicalized,  and want Trump to be our nominee as much or more as you, RIV and Aligncare do.  WHY IS THAT, folks???   They want Trump to be our nominee because they know they can demonize him - and the Republican brand -  among the swing voters who will decide the election.    They want Trump to be our nominee because they know that he can and will inevitably destroy himself.   

It is crazy to do exactly as the Democrats want, and nominate a man they can credibly accuse of racism and ginning up mobs.   We need instead to take the fight to the Dems and expose their radicalism and their own bigotry.   Trump is the Great Distraction that prevents that fight from being effectively waged.     

It is only the summer of 2019.   It is not too late to change course, and nominate a candidate who will not just fight, but fight SMART.   
« Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 02:49:24 PM by Jazzhead »
"He was born poor, died rich, and never hurt anyone along the way"

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"Not forever.  Just for now"

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Offline Once-Ler

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Bull.  What has doomed conservatism is voting again and again for the RINO's in Congress who pretend they are conservative, yet vote along with the DEMS.  The Jeb's, Kasich's, Rubio's, McCain's, Ryans, McConnells, Romneys, and those like them, have doomed conservatism.  Fortunately the biggest culprit is no longer alive to continue to wreak his havoc on the GOP.  Kasich and Jeb are pretty much out to pasture ... unfortunately, though, a little too late, I'm afraid.  Had McCain, Ryan, McConnell and the rest of the RINO's been voted out long ago, we'd be looking at a major victory at the border and a sure victory in 2020.

“Nobody is a fiscal conservative anymore.  All this talk about concern for the deficit and the budget has been bogus for as long as it’s been around.”  -  Rush Limbaugh
“If we had confidence the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so.” - Robert Mueller

Offline Once-Ler

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“If we had confidence the president clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said so.” - Robert Mueller

Offline dfwgator

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“Nobody is a fiscal conservative anymore.  All this talk about concern for the deficit and the budget has been bogus for as long as it’s been around.”  -  Rush Limbaugh

Everybody's a fiscal conservative until they find out their pet program is getting cut.

Offline dfwgator

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If it weren't Trump, their target would have been Cruz.  The snakes in the grass wanted someone like Bush or Kasich who would have continued to play their games.  Name one other person who has stood up to the Washington cartel?  Name one other person who is willing to stand up and challenge Trump and put up with the mudslinging from the leftists and socialists??  Only RINO appeasement will calm them.  Quite frankly, the very last thing we need is another RINO losing to the DEMS.

You think if Jeb or Kasich had won, they would have acted any different?  Look how they treated a liberal, like W, all those years.

Online libertybele

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You think if Jeb or Kasich had won, they would have acted any different?  Look how they treated a liberal, like W, all those years.

The false accusations and fake news media would have been greatly minimized and perhaps not even necessary as they would have had Jeb or Kasich marching to the tune of their drums.
"I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes. I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey it laws; to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies." -William Page

Online skeeter

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Can't imagine a worse president than Obama.   Did you lose any liberty?
Do you believe our allies in Europe are of no use in any situation?   Do we never need a coalition in any event?
Or, perhaps common cause with Kim makes up for the disrespect from our allies.

I/we lost quite a bit of liberty under Obama. Under the government of my state, which has common cause with Obama, I'm using more every year.

I cannot believe anyone on this board believes Obama wasn't a near total disaster for the Constitution.


Online Jazzhead

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The false accusations and fake news media would have been greatly minimized and perhaps not even necessary as they would have had Jeb or Kasich marching to the tune of their drums.

Baloney.   There is a vast difference between the centrist but still pro-capitalist and liberty-centric views of Jeb or Kasich and the "woke" identity-politics socialism espoused by most of the poseurs running for the Dem nomination.   

The danger in 2020 is the gulf between Trump and, say, Bernie Sanders is so vast that it is difficult to predict how swing voters and independents will vote.   If the choice is that stark and unappealing,  I can see a respected moderate voice running as an independent.   
"He was born poor, died rich, and never hurt anyone along the way"

   - Duke Ellington, upon hearing of the death of Louis Armstrong

"Not forever.  Just for now"

    - Jay Farrar

Online libertybele

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Baloney.   There is a vast difference between the centrist but still pro-capitalist and liberty-centric views of Jeb or Kasich and the "woke" identity-politics socialism espoused by most of the poseurs running for the Dem nomination.   

The danger in 2020 is the gulf between Trump and, say, Bernie Sanders is so vast that it is difficult to predict how swing voters and independents will vote.   If the choice is that stark and unappealing,  I can see a respected moderate voice running as an independent.
'

Neither Jeb or Kasich are centrists, they ARE liberals.  When referring to them, I wasn't referring to them as socialists but Republicans in Name Only who pander to the left and vote and support their agenda.

The choice in 2020 is either you vote for Trump or the DEM nominee.  The true danger in 2020 is the probability of the same corruption and fraud that we saw during the mid terms.  Any corruption and fraud will be further fueled by the socialists and liberal hate groups who are convinced that Trump was never duly elected by the people.  Secondly, the crisis at the border is growing and IMHO the chances of a major upheaval because of the invasion is growing as well.

I'm not quite sure what pipe dream you are entertaining, but there isn't anyone challenging Trump so there will not be someone who's going to all of a sudden jump in on the GOP side and then become the GOP nominee for 2020 to challenge the DEM nominee.  It's not going to happen. 


"I believe in the United States of America as a Government of the people, by the people, for the people; whose just powers are derived from the consent of the governed; a democracy in a republic; a sovereign nation of many sovereign states; a perfect union one and inseparable; established upon those principles of freedom, equality, justice and humanity for which American patriots sacrificed their lives and fortunes. I therefore believe it is my duty to my country to love it; to support its Constitution; to obey it laws; to respect its flag; and to defend it against all enemies." -William Page

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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Can't imagine a worse president than Obama.   Did you lose any liberty?

We twice came within a single vote on the Supreme Court of losing liberty -- both with Citizens United, and then with Heller.  Had Trump lost in 2016, both of those would have been reversed.  And if a Democrat wins in 2020, there's a good chance of it happening then.  They also barely got stymied with all sorts of restrictions on political speech by the FEC, which again could easily go the wrong way in 2020.

I'd also say that because of the way Obama handled immigration, all of us are likely to have our votes diluted, more and more of a our tax dollars going to people who are not here illegally.
Also, the way the Obama Administration staffed the EEOC, DOL, and DOE restricted the liberties of a lot of employers, and forced actions onto schools that many of us found offensive.

But hey, if you want to raise the "Democrats really aren't that bad" standard, go for it.  You're just making my point for me.

Online Maj. Bill Martin

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I am realistic enough to recognize that the Dems are increasingly radicalized,  and want Trump to be our nominee as much or more as you, RIV and Aligncare do.  WHY IS THAT, folks???   They want Trump to be our nominee because they know they can demonize him - and the Republican brand -  among the swing voters who will decide the election.    They want Trump to be our nominee because they know that he can and will inevitably destroy himself.   

It is crazy to do exactly as the Democrats want, and nominate a man they can credibly accuse of racism and ginning up mobs....I think   

@Jazzhead

I agree - it's crazy to do exactly as the Democrats want.  I'd even agree with you that the Democrats would prefer to run against Trump more than against some other potential opponents.  However, that's not exactly what they want.  What they'd want even more than running against Trump is to see the GOP tear itself to shreds in an internal war to try to prevent a very popular (at least among a majority of Republicans) sitting President from becoming his party's nominee.  If the attempt fails, as it is overwhelmingly likely to do, he will have been weakened by the barrage of GOP attacks against him.  And if it succeeds, huge numbers of his supporters will sit out of the 2020 election, and hand the Democrats a landslide.  That's what they'd really want, and that's exactly why you see people like Chuck Schumer constantly calling on other Republicans to criticize Trump.  Because they know that if the GOP turns on Trump, it guarantees a Democrat landslide in 2020.

You said you're "realistic enough" recognize that the Democrats are increasingly radicalized.  But are you truly being "realistic" when you think Trump can be convinced to abandon his quest for a second term?  He doesn't believe the polls, and based on what happened in the summer of 2016 when everyone and their brother was handing the election to Hillary as a done deal, why should he?

I think you are 100% correct in believing that if Trump stepped down voluntarily and tossed his support to Nikki Haley, that we'd have a much better chance of winning the 2020 general election.  But that's just pure wishful thinking, with no foundation in reality.   There is no plausible way to actually get from here to there.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 05:30:12 PM by Maj. Bill Martin »

Online corbe

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   Highly enlightening conversation Briefers.  Thank You.
No government in the 6,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Online PeteS in CA

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I'm much less concerned about "keeping up appearances" to the rest of the world - most of which isn't worthy of licking our shoes anyway - than I am about the irretrievable loss of liberty that will result if a Democrat is elected.

After watching "the world" show contempt to President Bush and then lionize Obama even before he was President, I became certain "the world" wants US Presidents to be weak and subservient. And I ceased giving a @#$% what "the world" thinks of US Presidents. They don't want good US Presidents unless they need their asses saved.
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Online Maj. Bill Martin

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After watching "the world" show contempt to President Bush and then lionize Obama even before he was President, I became certain "the world" wants US Presidents to be weak and subservient. And I ceased giving a @#$% what "the world" thinks of US Presidents. They don't want good US Presidents unless they need their asses saved.

Amen.  The way to make the rest of the world happy is for us to do exactly what they want.  The problem is that what is good for another country may not be good for us.

Offline EdJames

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After watching "the world" show contempt to President Bush and then lionize Obama even before he was President, I became certain "the world" wants US Presidents to be weak and subservient. And I ceased giving a @#$% what "the world" thinks of US Presidents. They don't want good US Presidents unless they need their asses saved.

I agree wholeheartedly with you Pete.... no one should give a tinker's damn what "the world" thinks....  about US Presidents....  and most other topics as well!


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