Author Topic: Comey Comes For Trump Supporters, ‘We Must Send Trump and His Mob Back to Their Dark Corner’  (Read 2929 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,536
  • Gender: Female
I speak for no nevertrump faction, and do not seek the nomination of a "RINO".    I support most of the President's policies and want them to continue.   I support the President's judicial nominees and want more of the same.

But I am realistic enough to realize that with Trump as the nominee we will lose, and may even lose the Senate.    I am realistic enough to recognize that the Dems are increasingly radicalized,  and want Trump to be our nominee as much or more as you, RIV and Aligncare do.  WHY IS THAT, folks???   They want Trump to be our nominee because they know they can demonize him - and the Republican brand -  among the swing voters who will decide the election.    They want Trump to be our nominee because they know that he can and will inevitably destroy himself.   

It is crazy to do exactly as the Democrats want, and nominate a man they can credibly accuse of racism and ginning up mobs.   We need instead to take the fight to the Dems and expose their radicalism and their own bigotry.   Trump is the Great Distraction that prevents that fight from being effectively waged.     

It is only the summer of 2019.   It is not too late to change course, and nominate a candidate who will not just fight, but fight SMART.

You really need to get a grip and realize that in order to nominate a candidate other than Trump, someone actually has to run, right?  ???? You have completely missed my points.  It is not so much that I want President Trump as our nominee as much as he IS the only one running on the GOP side.  He is the choice, whether or not you or anyone else likes him or not, or whether or not you and anyone else thinks he is going to lose.  He's not my favorite person as I don't particularly like his "character", however, he IS who is standing in the way of the progressive leftists.  He IS the one that has brought back jobs and delivered historic low unemployment rates.  He IS the one who has jump started this economy. He IS the one who has stood up to the left.  He IS the one who has displayed extreme patriotism, more so than Obama, Bush, and Clinton. He IS the one who has stood with Israel.  He IS the one that has brought some respect back to our country. Being realistic, he IS our current President running for re-election.  The other reality is he does have the best shot at defeating the liberals and socialists. So ... again ... it's either vote for him or vote for a DEM, abstain or write someone in.  Those ARE the choices.  You can sit and preach all day long banging the pulpit that we need to replace Trump, but the reality IS there isn't anyone jumping into to save your day who would win the nomination against Trump, and as time goes on, the chances of that happening are zero.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 10:19:39 pm by libertybele »
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 10,716
  • Gender: Male
  • I'll make Mincemeat out of 'em"
@libertybele

I think @Jazzhead is envisioning something like a what happened with LBJ in 1968, where people went to him, told him there was no way he could win, so he needed to step aside for the good of the party and let someone run in his place who had a chance to win. But there are three major differences between LBJ and his situation, and Trump and his:

1)  There was a singularly unpopular, dominant issue during that campaign season.  Namely, the Vietnam War.  And nobody really would have disputed that LBJ screwed that up royally.  Especially in terms of his credibility.  In contrast, there is no single substantive issue on which there is agreement that Trump has screwed the pooch.  In fact, on the economy, he's arguing hitting home runs.  So there's no substantive hook that makes his candidacy look doomed.

2) LBJ's actions with respect to Vietnam made him wildly unpopular even within his own party.  He was the pro-war President of what was rapidly becoming an anti-war party.  And if your own party won't even vote for you...you have no chance of winning a general election.  Trump, in contrast, is very popular within his own party.

3) Most importantly for purposes of this discussion, LBJ was a very calculating, lifelong politician who could read/would believe polls, and had a very acute sense of what was a winning issues/candidacy, and what wasn't.  He trusted his own advisors and his own political sense to judge that he could not win.   But Trump isn't a lifelong politician, and he actually detests/mistrusts more politicians.  He has very little faith in pollsters as well, and in fact won election when just about everyone was telling him he couldn't.  There is not even the barest hint that he'd seriously consider a suggestion from Romney, or the Koch Brothers, or anyone else that he should step aside.  He'd be far more likely to make their request/demand public, mock them for it, and tell them there's no way in hell he'd ever abandon the people who elected him just because a punch of career pols told him too.  And his supporters would cheer him wildly for saying it.

Trump withdrawing voluntarily is a pipe dream.

« Last Edit: July 19, 2019, 11:06:38 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
I understand your argument,@libertybelle, if you were making it next summer.   It is still THIS summer,  however,  and there is plenty of time to refuse to renominate a man who, it appears to me, will lead the party to almost certain defeat.    We don't, not yet at least, have to succumb to the "inevitable",  and settle for this deeply flawed candidate just as the Dems are expecting and hoping we will.
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,536
  • Gender: Female
@libertybele

I think @Jazzhead is envisioning something like a what happened with LBJ in 1968, where people went to him, told him there was no way he could win, so he needed to step aside for the good of the party and let someone run in his place who had a chance to win. But there are three major differences between LBJ and his situation, and Trump and his:

1)  There was a singularly unpopular, dominant issue during that campaign season.  Namely, the Vietnam War.  And nobody really would have disputed that LBJ screwed that up royally.  Especially in terms of his credibility.  In contrast, there is no single substantive issue on which there is agreement that Trump has screwed the pooch.  In fact, on the economy, he's arguing hitting home runs.  So there's no substantive hook that makes his candidacy look doomed.

2) LBJ's actions with respect to Vietnam made him wildly unpopular even within his own party.  He was the pro-war President of what was rapidly becoming an anti-war party.  And if your own party won't even vote for you...you have no chance of winning a general election.  Trump, in contrast, is very popular within his own party.

3) Most importantly for purposes of this discussion, LBJ was a very calculating, lifelong politician who could read/would believe polls, and had a very acute sense of what was a winning issues/candidacy, and what wasn't.  He trusted his own advisors and his own political sense to judge that he could not win.   But Trump isn't a lifelong politician, and he actually detests/mistrusts more politicians.  He has very little faith in pollsters as well, and in fact won election when just about everyone was telling him he couldn't.  There is not even the barest hint that he'd seriously consider a suggestion from Romney, or the Koch Brothers, or anyone else that he should step aside.  He'd be far more likely to make their request/demand public, mock them for it, and tell them there's no way in hell he'd ever abandon the people who elected him just because a punch of career pols told him too.  And his supporters would cheer him wildly for saying it.

Trump withdrawing voluntarily is a pipe dream.

Exactly.  Trump is not going to withdraw.  He is not a young man and could possibly run into some health problems, but he has more energy than most 40 year olds.

@Jazzhead like him or not, he is a very popular President who isn't going to go away. I'm not quite understanding why you keep insisting that there is time to nominate someone else when no one else is running??? To the best of my knowledge no one has even suggested or mentioned that he step down. I don't see members of the GOP doing that, unless he does something extremely unconstitutional or breaks the law BIGLY.  The DEMS first attempt at impeachment failed.

Yes this is Summer 2019.  The primaries start sometime in early February 2020.  Who ever would challenge Trump would need to file the appropriate paperwork by each state's deadline and have enough signatures to obtain ballot access.  They also would need to form various committees to comply with campaign contributions and various different laws as well as getting a ground game going and have some very serious $$ behind them.  No one that I know of has even started to do so.

Again, Trump as of now, is NOT being challenged.  NOT stepping down.  He will be the GOP nominee.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
Frist off, @Maj. Bill Martin , I want to tell you that I always enjoy reading your sober, well thought-out posts.  We may disagree,  but I respect you as one of the leading lights of this board.

What I advocate is not a pipe dream.   I am indeed thinking of the LBJ scenario where voices within the party convinced Johnson to not run for re-nomination,  but to allow the party to run a less politically toxic candidate who could continue LBJ's policies.   

Now I agree with you that Trump won't listen to the likes of Mitt Romney or other members of the NeverTrump chorus.    But what if the appeal were to come from Mitch McConnell?   McConnell, as leader of the Senate,  could convey his view that, if Trump is the nominee,  GOP control of the Senate is likely lost,  and with that Trump's policies would be reversed and repudiated,  and his legacy ruined.    I consider Trump to be unconventional,  but nevertheless an intelligent and rational man.    I think he believes - with justification - that he has accomplished some great things,  and been a voice and advocate for the hitherto disparaged and voiceless.    His legacy, his policies, are important to him.   And he is not a professional politician,  but rather a patriotic citizen,  and as such is persuadable to reason that the best way to finish what he started is to pass the baton to another.

As I've noted before,  his successor must be an ally, not a NeverTrump gadfly.   Someone like Nikki Haley or Liz Cheney,   who've stood with the President.    Someone who can pledge to his supporters that he/she is determined to move forward with his agenda without all the angst and drama.   And who can appeal to the swing voters that any successful Republican candidate will need. 

Indeed,  given the booming economy and the Dems' radicalism,  the right GOP nominee can maybe even regain both the House and Senate for the party.    That can help protect Trump from the jackals who want to ruin any semblance of a happy return to private life.       
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,536
  • Gender: Female
Frist off, @Maj. Bill Martin , I want to tell you that I always enjoy reading your sober, well thought-out posts.  We may disagree,  but I respect you as one of the leading lights of this board.

What I advocate is not a pipe dream.   I am indeed thinking of the LBJ scenario where voices within the party convinced Johnson to not run for re-nomination,  but to allow the party to run a less politically toxic candidate who could continue LBJ's policies.   

Now I agree with you that Trump won't listen to the likes of Mitt Romney or other members of the NeverTrump chorus.    But what if the appeal were to come from Mitch McConnell?   McConnell, as leader of the Senate,  could convey his view that, if Trump is the nominee,  GOP control of the Senate is likely lost,  and with that Trump's policies would be reversed and repudiated,  and his legacy ruined.    I consider Trump to be unconventional,  but nevertheless an intelligent and rational man.    I think he believes - with justification - that he has accomplished some great things,  and been a voice and advocate for the hitherto disparaged and voiceless.    His legacy, his policies, are important to him.   And he is not a professional politician,  but rather a patriotic citizen,  and as such is persuadable to reason that the best way to finish what he started is to pass the baton to another.

As I've noted before,  his successor must be an ally, not a NeverTrump gadfly.   Someone like Nikki Haley or Liz Cheney,   who've stood with the President.    Someone who can pledge to his supporters that he/she is determined to move forward with his agenda without all the angst and drama.   And who can appeal to the swing voters that any successful Republican candidate will need. 

Indeed,  given the booming economy and the Dems' radicalism,  the right GOP nominee can maybe even regain both the House and Senate for the party.    That can help protect Trump from the jackals who want to ruin any semblance of a happy return to private life.     

@Jazzhead, I realize that this wasn't directed to me, but with all respect, Mitch is afraid of his own shadow and wouldn't ask Trump to step down. 

Let's say that hypothetically Trump is asked to step down for the good of the "party"; I think the GOP would lose a tremendous amount of voters.  Part of Trump's appeal is that he wasn't part of the establishment.  His popularity and his ability to draw crowds has been unmatched by any candidate ever in the history of this country.  I just don't see Cheney or Haley carrying that popularity and certainly they are part of the establishment. 

IF indeed there is a movement that intends to see that Trump steps down, that movement has to be equal to, if not larger than his base.  I just don't see that happening.

Every rally that he holds, every seat is filled with thousands left on the outside who were unable to get in.  Watch a couple of his rallies and then tell me that he isn't a popular President. 

Peace @Jazzhead.  Enough said.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
@Jazzhead, I realize that this wasn't directed to me, but with all respect, Mitch is afraid of his own shadow and wouldn't ask Trump to step down. 

Don't underestimate Mitch McConnell.   He's the reason that Garland isn't on the Supreme Court, and Neil Gorsuch is.   He and President Trump have worked hand in hand,  and McConnell's had Trump's back.   

The loss of the Senate would be a body blow.   It cannot be allowed to happen. 
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline libertybele

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 56,536
  • Gender: Female
Don't underestimate Mitch McConnell.   He's the reason that Garland isn't on the Supreme Court, and Neil Gorsuch is.   He and President Trump have worked hand in hand,  and McConnell's had Trump's back.   

The loss of the Senate would be a body blow.   It cannot be allowed to happen.

@Jazzhead the leadership of Nikki Haley or Liz Cheney may be a breath of fresh air.  Both are indeed well qualified with personalities certainly more reserved than that of our current President.  I do not see any longer that we have two branches of government working towards doing what is best for America. 

The corruption from the left is very prominent. Living in FL and having both our governor and senator almost losing because of that massive corruption and fraud was an eye opener.  I'm not so sure that Haley or Cheney would survive what the left has put Trump through.  Yes, Trump has brought about many of his own problems, but keep in mind that the leftists hate him because they feel that Hillary was robbed of the presidency because she won the popular vote.  They don't care about our electoral process, nor our Constitution.  The left's lack of respect for our President and our Constitution is problematic. They would act no differently towards Haley or Cheney.  Would Haley or Cheney be able to push back?  I don't know.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Rivergirl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,036
Nice to know that some people love Trump's policies.
Shredding NAFTA
Shredding the Iran agreement
Rolling back industrial pollution curbs
Cancelling 'war games' with South Korea to appease his lover, Kim.
Tariffs that have harmed American farmers.  And many other businesses.
Suggesting boycotts of companies that have hurt his feelings, and then decrying the suggestion of a boycott by others.
Oh, the tax breaks that allowed Corporations to use their new money to buy back their own shares of stock, rather than raises wages or hire new people.
Wonderful accomplishments.  NOT

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,331
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
Nice to know that some people love Trump's policies.
Shredding NAFTA
Shredding the Iran agreement
Rolling back industrial pollution curbs
Cancelling 'war games' with South Korea to appease his lover, Kim.
Tariffs that have harmed American farmers.  And many other businesses.
Suggesting boycotts of companies that have hurt his feelings, and then decrying the suggestion of a boycott by others.
Oh, the tax breaks that allowed Corporations to use their new money to buy back their own shares of stock, rather than raises wages or hire new people.
Wonderful accomplishments.  NOT

Someone could easily get the impression that you are posting on TBR while thinking you are elsewhere.
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
@Rivergirl ,   if the choice were yours,  who would you pick for the GOP nomination?   I am asking for a reason.
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline Rivergirl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,036
I voted for Cruz in the primary.  Did not vote for President.
Reviewing the records of all the candidates I was always impressed with Walker and was shocked that he allowed Trump to lie about his record.  He faced a recall and then wimped out during the Presidential campaign.
Have family who lived in Florida and they were impressed with Jeb Bush's leadership in Florida.  The state moved from being a haven for old folks hiding from winter and the inheritance tax man to a great place for young families. He, too, allow Trump to bully him.   None of the other candidates impressed.  Least of all Lindsay Graham.  And that is an understatement.

Offline Jazzhead

  • Blue lives matter
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 11,593
  • Gender: Male
So you are for Cruz.   Has Cruz voiced disagreement with any of the items on that list?   I count most of 'em as merits, not demerits.
It's crackers to slip a rozzer the dropsy in snide

Offline Rivergirl

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3,036
So you are for Cruz.   Has Cruz voiced disagreement with any of the items on that list?   I count most of 'em as merits, not demerits.
Cruz was correct in every criticism of Trump.   Evidently trashing Heidi Cruz was just fine with Cruz.  Anything to be in the light of the master. Ugh.

Offline EdJames

  • Certified Trump Realist
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,791
Someone could easily get the impression that you are posting on TBR while thinking you are elsewhere.

@Bigun

Was you thinking what I was thinking?

https://www.democraticunderground.com/

 :yowsa:

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,331
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online DCPatriot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45,802
  • Gender: Male
  • "...and the winning number is...not yours!
Nice to know that some people love Trump's policies.
Shredding NAFTA
Shredding the Iran agreement
Rolling back industrial pollution curbs
Cancelling 'war games' with South Korea to appease his lover, Kim.
Tariffs that have harmed American farmers.  And many other businesses.
Suggesting boycotts of companies that have hurt his feelings, and then decrying the suggestion of a boycott by others.
Oh, the tax breaks that allowed Corporations to use their new money to buy back their own shares of stock, rather than raises wages or hire new people.
Wonderful accomplishments.  NOT

Such a piss-poor troll.....     *****rollingeyes*****
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline EdJames

  • Certified Trump Realist
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2,791

Offline Fishrrman

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 35,365
  • Gender: Male
  • Dumbest member of the forum
dfw wrote:
"Trump may be a blowhard, but it's precisely what we need right now.   Milquetoast Republicans aren't going to get it done."

Of course.

Mr. Trump may not be a "man for all seasons", but he's most certainly the president we need for these times and seasons -- a brash bare-knuckled fighter who's willing to punch back harder at the democrat-communists for every swing they try to take at him.

Nobody else could have beaten o'er-the-hillary in 2016, and NOBODY else would be giving it back to the dem-coms as hard today as he does.

Offline XenaLee

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15,398
  • Gender: Female
  • Si Vis Pacem, Para Bellum
Why is it "elitism" to insist on tact and decorum in public discourse?     Why is it "elitism" to decry the ginning up of mobs?   

I understand perfectly well the "Eff off" attitude toward the Democrats, who are snakes in the grass.   But we can do better than Trump.

Where is any evidence/proof of that claim?   All I've seen from our side is pro-amnesty globalists (like the Bushes) and outright traitors like McCain.  Who, exactly, on the GOP side is 'better'?  Who has the nads and guts to stand up against the radical leftist Democrats and the filthy rich elitists that fund them?
No quarter given to the enemy within...ever.

You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out of it.

Offline Bigun

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 51,331
  • Gender: Male
  • Resistance to Tyrants is Obedience to God
    • The FairTax Plan
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Online DCPatriot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45,802
  • Gender: Male
  • "...and the winning number is...not yours!
Where is any evidence/proof of that claim?   All I've seen from our side is pro-amnesty globalists (like the Bushes) and outright traitors like McCain.  Who, exactly, on the GOP side is 'better'?  Who has the nads and guts to stand up against the radical leftist Democrats and the filthy rich elitists that fund them?

Excellent set of questions, @XenaLee     :patriot:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline corbe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 38,072
   One of the points in the last hour or two has been about Trump standing up to the MSM and Dems and that no one else could or would.  This is also a false fallacy, that will never be proven/unproven with Trump's election and tying up the GOP (ripe for picking in 2015) for 10 years and leaving his populist mark on it. 
   I was for Cruz and could not bring myself to vote for Trump, so I protest voted the Constitution Party (Texas 38 EV's were safe for him).  Walker would have been acceptable for me, he stared down the dems, not once but twice and won.  Conservatives main villain is Cocaine Mitch and only one Senator has called that sob out, in his house. 
    I'm with you @Rivergirl Trump wasn't the only 'fighter' in the primary, but, I never watched The Apprentice so I may be lacking something.
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.

Online DCPatriot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 45,802
  • Gender: Male
  • "...and the winning number is...not yours!
   One of the points in the last hour or two has been about Trump standing up to the MSM and Dems and that no one else could or would.  This is also a false fallacy, that will never be proven/unproven with Trump's election and tying up the GOP (ripe for picking in 2015) for 10 years and leaving his populist mark on it. 
   I was for Cruz and could not bring myself to vote for Trump, so I protest voted the Constitution Party (Texas 38 EV's were safe for him).  Walker would have been acceptable for me, he stared down the dems, not once but twice and won.  Conservatives main villain is Cocaine Mitch and only one Senator has called that sob out, in his house. 
    I'm with you @Rivergirl Trump wasn't the only 'fighter' in the primary, but, I never watched The Apprentice so I may be lacking something.

Common sense?    :whistle:
"It aint what you don't know that kills you.  It's what you know that aint so!" ...Theodore Sturgeon

"Journalism is about covering the news.  With a pillow.  Until it stops moving."    - David Burge (Iowahawk)

"It was only a sunny smile, and little it cost in the giving, but like morning light it scattered the night and made the day worth living" F. Scott Fitzgerald

Offline corbe

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 38,072
   I'll admit my shortcomings @DCPatriot and I have quite a few but common sense is not one of them (other than dealing with Women).
No government in the 12,000 years of modern mankind history has led its people into anything but the history books with a simple lesson, don't let this happen to you.