Author Topic: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?  (Read 5424 times)

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Online Bigun

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #50 on: July 11, 2019, 09:57:31 pm »
I'm going to take a break before I loose a LOT of friends!
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
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Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #51 on: July 11, 2019, 10:11:16 pm »
I'm going to take a break before I loose a LOT of friends!

That's it.  If you can't spell lose correctly, you're going on ignore, pal.
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Offline EdJames

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #52 on: July 11, 2019, 10:16:05 pm »
I'm going to take a break before I loose a LOT of friends!

Why do you think I moved my attention to the current baseball controversy??

(Ooops, looks like that may not work out so well either!!)

 :silly:

Online Bigun

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #53 on: July 11, 2019, 10:21:01 pm »
That's it.  If you can't spell lose correctly, you're going on ignore, pal.

Tooo many ooos in my spaghetti ooos
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.

"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."
- J. R. R. Tolkien

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #54 on: July 11, 2019, 10:40:18 pm »
@Jazzhead

Give it a rest. You are not fooling anyone. What you want is another RINO like Bush.

No, I wish it were that simple.  I want anyone but Trump. If the election is a referendum on Trump, rather than on the issues,  the Dems likely control the whole ball of wax.

I don't give a damn whether it's a moderate,  a conservative or a libertarian.   I just want to know who has the courage to stand up and oppose him?   
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Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #55 on: July 11, 2019, 10:42:35 pm »
Tooo many ooos in my spaghetti ooos

I can't hear you.
My avatar shows the national debt in stacks of $100 bills.  If you look very closely under the crane you can see the Statue of Liberty.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #56 on: July 12, 2019, 03:27:03 pm »
@Maj. Bill Martin
I think you are wrong - But not for the reason you state.
Yes I care somewhat about tone - Civility is important, and one can be firm in conviction without being boorish. But more to the point, he pisses people off just for the sake of pissing them off, with nothing to gain... And what that translates to is very extreme determination in his opponents.

And the proof of that is the white-hot anger against him, when really, he has not moved the status quo enough to worry about.

I will not say that will, like @Jazzhead , but I will say that very well may cause a very determined left to roll out one helluva GOTV...

And that's just plain dumb.

I think this depends on whether you view Trump as the action, or the reaction.  I think the nomination/election of Trump was the reaction by a whole lot of folks to the Democrats leftward acceleration over the course of the last decade.  Because Obama did move the country left in a lot of ways, but more importantly, I believe he created a mindset among the left that they "owned" the tide of political debate in this country.  That they are entitled to power simply because of their virtue.  And I believe that was evident before Trump took office.  Trump won because other Republicans failed to respond to that aggressively enough to satisfy voters.

Bernie Sanders was the canary in the coal mine.  He's a guy who would have been laughed out of the race a decade ago because he was an avowed socialist.  And yet, he had all the enthusiasm in the Democrat party, and would have won the nomination if black voters had not gone overwhelmingly for Hillary.  And he did that not by running against Trump, but by running against the "moderates" in the Democrat Party itself.  And even Bernie's success was just the logical continuation of things like Occupy Wall Street, the overnight shift in gay marriage, and Obama reversing himself and moving hard left on immigration with DACA. 

Those things all preceded Trump as the lightning rod, and reflect a remarkable degree of leftward movement in the country over a short period of time.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 03:39:38 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Online roamer_1

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #57 on: July 12, 2019, 03:46:53 pm »
I think this depends on whether you view Trump as the action, or the reaction.  I think Trump was the reaction to the Democrats leftward acceleration over the course of the last decade.  Because Obama did move the country left in a lot of ways, but more importantly, I believe he created a mindset among the left that they "owned" the tide of political debate in this country.  That they are entitled to power simply because of their virtue.  And I believe that was evident before Trump took office.  Trump won because other Republicans failed to respond to that aggressively enough to satisfy voters.

Bernie Sanders was the canary in the coal mine.  He's a guy who would have been laughed out of the race a decade ago because he was an avowed socialist.  And yet, he had all the enthusiasm in the Democrat party, and would have won the nomination if black voters had not gone overwhelmingly for Hillary.  And he did that not by running against Trump, but by running against the "moderates" in the Democrat Party itself.  And even Bernie's success was just the logical continuation of Occupy Wall Street, the overnight shift in gay marriage, and Obama reversing himself and moving hard left on immigration with DACA. 

Those things all preceded Trump as the lightning rod, and reflect a remarkable degree of leftward movement in the country over a short period of time.

@Maj. Bill Martin
I don't really care about the impetus, the reasons, whatever. What matters is what he has done since he attained the office.
He likes pissing people off.
He likes publicly stepping on folks.
He likes grinding their faces in it.

No purpose about it, unless it is centered on himself - he's the martyr, and they did it to him... that sort of thing.

Well, hold on, because it's gonna get rough. You ain't going to have a rift in the Democrats, with a bunch of butthurt Berinie-ites staying home. You are not going to have anything cropping up that will matter. They are so very pissed off by now that they will very eagerly vote en-bloc against the Tumpy one.

Like I said, I ain't saying it's so, but it is very possible that Tump is the author of a mighty blue wave.

And all that, for basically nothing. Judges, a corporate tax cut, and a whole helluva lot of spending... all the rest are executive orders that will pass like bad mexican food in the middle of the night.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #58 on: July 12, 2019, 04:03:24 pm »
@Maj. Bill Martin
I don't really care about the impetus, the reasons, whatever. What matters is what he has done since he attained the office.

It matters very much in terms of the argument that "Trump is the reason the Democrats have become so radical and have dug in their heels."  Because if Trump isn't the real reason, and this is a route on which they were going to embark anyway, then the justification for some Republicans to try to tear him down isn't as strong.

Quote
Well, hold on, because it's gonna get rough. You ain't going to have a rift in the Democrats, with a bunch of butthurt Berinie-ites staying home. You are not going to have anything cropping up that will matter. They are so very pissed off by now that they will very eagerly vote en-bloc against the Tumpy one.

Like I said, I ain't saying it's so, but it is very possible that Tump is the author of a mighty blue wave.

That blue wave wouldn't be a smidge smaller if it was someone like Ted Cruz.  It would only be smaller if it was a more moderate Republican who endorsed more of the views held by Democrats.  Which, of course, might well lead to a lack of support from conservatives who detest that sort of thing.

And just to clarify, I was very strongly anti-Trump during the primaries because of the way he behaved.  @Mesaclone laid out a well-reasoned case (to me, anyway....) why supporting Trump in the general election made sense despite the fact that Trump was so detestable personally.  Would I have preferred someone else?  Sure -- I didn't vote for the guy in the primaries.  And I very much wish he'd have decided only to serve one term and then turned it over to some staunch conservative who didn't have all that baggage.

But he didn't.  So the reality with which we are currently faced is that he's going to be the GOP nominee, and someone much further to the left is going to be the Democrat nominee.  How we all choose to respond to that reality is obviously an individual choice.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 04:09:33 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Offline goatprairie

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #59 on: July 12, 2019, 04:38:24 pm »
I think this depends on whether you view Trump as the action, or the reaction.  I think the nomination/election of Trump was the reaction by a whole lot of folks to the Democrats leftward acceleration over the course of the last decade.  Because Obama did move the country left in a lot of ways, but more importantly, I believe he created a mindset among the left that they "owned" the tide of political debate in this country.  That they are entitled to power simply because of their virtue.  And I believe that was evident before Trump took office.  Trump won because other Republicans failed to respond to that aggressively enough to satisfy voters.

Bernie Sanders was the canary in the coal mine.  He's a guy who would have been laughed out of the race a decade ago because he was an avowed socialist.  And yet, he had all the enthusiasm in the Democrat party, and would have won the nomination if black voters had not gone overwhelmingly for Hillary.  And he did that not by running against Trump, but by running against the "moderates" in the Democrat Party itself.  And even Bernie's success was just the logical continuation of things like Occupy Wall Street, the overnight shift in gay marriage, and Obama reversing himself and moving hard left on immigration with DACA. 

Those things all preceded Trump as the lightning rod, and reflect a remarkable degree of leftward movement in the country over a short period of time.
"Bernie Sanders was the canary in the coal mine"
Yes, avowed socialists in the Dem Party couldn't have gotten any traction decades ago. Now they're legitimate threats to win the Dem Party nomination for president and are shaping the thoughts and ideas of Dem programs.
What happened? They're getting a ton of support from millennials and other ignorant youthful voters who somehow think we're living in the third world country, and only socialist ideas can save the country and the world. Their skulls of mush were mostlyinfluenced and ruined in school.
 Which proves academia is the biggest threat of the three-headed lib/leftist monster which includes academia, the media, and the entertainment industry.

Offline Maj. Bill Martin

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #60 on: July 12, 2019, 05:05:05 pm »
"Bernie Sanders was the canary in the coal mine"
Yes, avowed socialists in the Dem Party couldn't have gotten any traction decades ago. Now they're legitimate threats to win the Dem Party nomination for president and are shaping the thoughts and ideas of Dem programs.
What happened? They're getting a ton of support from millennials and other ignorant youthful voters who somehow think we're living in the third world country, and only socialist ideas can save the country and the world. Their skulls of mush were mostlyinfluenced and ruined in school.
 Which proves academia is the biggest threat of the three-headed lib/leftist monster which includes academia, the media, and the entertainment industry.

Exactly.  And again, Bernie didn't get that support by being anti-Trump.  He got it by being anti-Hillary/anti-moderate Democrat.
« Last Edit: July 12, 2019, 05:15:00 pm by Maj. Bill Martin »

Online roamer_1

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #61 on: July 12, 2019, 06:13:39 pm »
It matters very much in terms of the argument that "Trump is the reason the Democrats have become so radical and have dug in their heels."  Because if Trump isn't the real reason, and this is a route on which they were going to embark anyway, then the justification for some Republicans to try to tear him down isn't as strong.

To a degree you're right - They dd the very same thing to Bush, and would do the same to any threat.
It is a matter of degree. And YES, Tump has stoked em up, white hot.

Quote
That blue wave wouldn't be a smidge smaller if it was someone like Ted Cruz. 

Yes, I think it would... Largely because Cruz is not in the business of tearing people down without purpose.

Quote
But he didn't.  So the reality with which we are currently faced is that he's going to be the GOP nominee, and someone much further to the left is going to be the Democrat nominee.  How we all choose to respond to that reality is obviously an individual choice.

Not that much further. Six of one, half-dozen of the other.  :shrug:

Offline jafo2010

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #62 on: July 12, 2019, 06:59:42 pm »
What the heck does serious Democrat even mean?  Almost an oxymoron!

Sanders in 2016 largely represented the anti-Clinton vote.  I believe you will hear your serious Democomie announce in September or October.  Let the rabble clown car have their idiotic debates, and yes, they were purely idiotic!

Come the fall, the serious candidate announces and appears as Joan of Arc coming to the rescue.

Steyer will be another Jeb.  Spend $100 million+ to get 1-2%. 

It has long been my contention that a lot of thought and planning went into the Dem contest.  I believe much of what is going on is choreographed.  I believe 8-10 of the candidates entered for the benefit of solely diluting the vote for Sanders.

I have seen nothing that indicates HR Clinton will not enter the race in the fall.  THERE....your serious candidate, or so she will appear in a couple months after the Dems' bashing one another.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #63 on: July 12, 2019, 09:51:26 pm »
@Maj. Bill Martin
I think you are wrong - But not for the reason you state.
Yes I care somewhat about tone - Civility is important, and one can be firm in conviction without being boorish. But more to the point, he pisses people off just for the sake of pissing them off, with nothing to gain...

@roamer_1

I disagree. It is his negotiating strategy. He pisses off his opponents to throw them off balance so they make mistakes. One mistake is to focus on what he says instead of what he is doing. Keep in mind these are usually people nobody ever says "No" to,and they lose ALL their cool when this happens.

Mad people make mistakes. The biggest one is doing and saying what they WANT to do and say instead of what they NEED to do and say to come out on top.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online roamer_1

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #64 on: July 12, 2019, 10:02:17 pm »
@roamer_1

I disagree. It is his negotiating strategy. He pisses off his opponents to throw them off balance so they make mistakes. One mistake is to focus on what he says instead of what he is doing. Keep in mind these are usually people nobody ever says "No" to,and they lose ALL their cool when this happens.

Mad people make mistakes. The biggest one is doing and saying what they WANT to do and say instead of what they NEED to do and say to come out on top.


Well I think that is more underwater 64 dimensional chess strategery and wishful thinking. @sneakypete .

Even if it is true, it seems to be a mighty poor strategy, as he loses way more than he wins.  :shrug:

But I do not think it's true. I think he's just an ass.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #65 on: July 12, 2019, 10:09:10 pm »

Well I think that is more underwater 64 dimensional chess strategery and wishful thinking. @sneakypete .

Even if it is true, it seems to be a mighty poor strategy, as he loses way more than he wins.  :shrug:

But I do not think it's true. I think he's just an ass.

@roamer_1

So what? We NEED someone strong to run the country. Look at what those wuss asshats,Carter and the Bush Crime Family did. You want to go back to surrendering to the left because you ARE the left,or do you want a president that will stand up to them?
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online roamer_1

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #66 on: July 12, 2019, 10:15:30 pm »
@roamer_1

So what? We NEED someone strong to run the country. Look at what those wuss asshats,Carter and the Bush Crime Family did. You want to go back to surrendering to the left because you ARE the left,or do you want a president that will stand up to them?

@sneakypete
A false proposition.
Tump isn't standing up to anything. He blusters and threatens, and makes a big stink, and then folds like a 2 dollar lawn chair.

Then he takes a victory lap.
woohoo.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #67 on: July 12, 2019, 10:36:56 pm »
@sneakypete
A false proposition.
Tump isn't standing up to anything. He blusters and threatens, and makes a big stink, and then folds like a 2 dollar lawn chair.

Then he takes a victory lap.
woohoo.

@roamer_1

Yeah,that must be why so many Dim and RINO heads are exploding,right?

"None are so blind as those who will not see."
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online roamer_1

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #68 on: July 12, 2019, 10:41:13 pm »
Yeah,that must be why so many Dim and RINO heads are exploding,right?


@sneakypete
Then you should have no problem listing his wins - REAL wins. Executive orders don't count.

Quote
"None are so blind as those who will not see."

You got that much right alright.
All y'all are so happy to see someone poke his finger in their eye, that literally, nothing else matters.
Which must be enough, because that's all you're getting.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #69 on: July 12, 2019, 10:43:07 pm »
@sneakypete
Then you should have no problem listing his wins - REAL wins. Executive orders don't count.

You got that much right alright.
All y'all are so happy to see someone poke his finger in their eye, that literally, nothing else matters.
Which must be enough, because that's all you're getting.

@roamer_1

Why bother when you are just going to ignore them or tell me I am wrong because of your biases and refusal to admit you are wrong.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online roamer_1

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #70 on: July 12, 2019, 10:46:50 pm »
@roamer_1

Why bother when you are just going to ignore them or tell me I am wrong because of your biases and refusal to admit you are wrong.

@sneakypete
Naw. You won't play because you've got nothing.
Take away his EOs and he's done damn little, and much less than that is conservative.


Offline sneakypete

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #71 on: July 12, 2019, 11:11:27 pm »
@sneakypete
Naw. You won't play because you've got nothing.
Take away his EOs and he's done damn little, and much less than that is conservative.

@roamer_1

Granted,he hasn't done as much as he could have done,but this IS BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU attacking him all the time instead of letting your local politicians know you support him.

This is 21st Century America,and no politician can accomplish much without political support from his or her party,as well as registered voters from his or her party. It's called "influence".
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Online roamer_1

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #72 on: July 13, 2019, 12:17:07 am »
Granted,he hasn't done as much as he could have done,but this IS BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU attacking him all the time instead of letting your local politicians know you support him.

@sneakypete
No, he hasn't done much of anything, and what he has done is spend more money than Obama - That alone is a 'no sale'.

Seems to me that support has to be earned.
All I have seen so far is a battleship mouth and a rowboat ass.

Quote
This is 21st Century America,and no politician can accomplish much without political support from his or her party,as well as registered voters from his or her party. It's called "influence".

You're barking up the wrong tree.
I walked away from the Republicans in 07 in total disgust, and so far I ain't seen a damn thing that makes me want to go back. *SPIT*

Online roamer_1

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #73 on: July 13, 2019, 01:18:03 am »
By the by... It is a curious thing to me @sneakypete , your unswerving support of his loudmouth antics - That you often become gleeful with it...

Being what you are, I would think you would recognize the big bar room drunk hollering his fool head off about how tough he is...And you'd know the real curly wolf is the quiet one in a dark corner with his back to the wall...

I have come to expect it from them eastern folks, where it seems that bluster is what passes for tough... But you're a Colorado boy, back up in the sticks, with callouses on your hands and fighting in your past.

For the life of me, I don't get what you're seeing.  :shrug:

Online Hoodat

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Re: Can a serious Democrat please run for president?
« Reply #74 on: July 13, 2019, 01:21:14 am »
Quote
Can a serious Democrat please run for president?

These are serious Democrats.
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