Author Topic: Conservatives Shouldn’t Fear Evolutionary Theory  (Read 960 times)

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Offline QueenCatofAragon

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Re: Conservatives Shouldn’t Fear Evolutionary Theory
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2019, 09:20:57 AM »
I was encouraged to read "Inherit the Wind," about the Scopes Monkey Trials when I was a teenager.

@truth_seeker

No doubt you were.  Inherit The Wind openly mocked religion and the South.  It was instrumental in drawing the line for people—believe as we tell you or be mocked with no mercy as an ignorant snake-handling hick.  People don’t want to be mocked.  They want to be seen as intelligent, intellectual.

It’s interesting because if Inherit The Wind were about politics instead of religion we would have zero tolerance.  The play and the movie are progressive, biased, grossly inaccurate attempts to destroy the Biblical POV in favor of evolution.  And supported by the ACLU.  I can’t even begin to go into the details of the deliberate misrepresentation of the real Scopes trial and its participants; it’s all easily found online. 

Take that description 👆 and change it a little to a progressive, biased, grossly inaccurate, ACLU-supported play/ movie about Donald Trump.  Or Mike Pence, or conservatives in general.  We wouldn’t give it the time of day.

Inherit The Wind portrays the people of the town where it took place as a bunch of backward Southern idiots, with a girl screaming that Clarence Darrow was the devil and running away in terror like some superstitious 10th century serf.  Does this seem realistic in any way?  Or maybe like a production with an agenda?

William Jennings Bryan wasn’t a raving jerk in real life.  Clarence Darrow was an outspoken agnostic.  Yet Darrow is portrayed as the sensible, enlightened man who wants to save us from “medieval nonsense.”

As for the actual trial?  Scopes wasn’t even a biology teacher.  The ACLU was looking for someone to test the law—they placed a newspaper ad—and he agreed to do it.  Much of the pro-evolution evidence submitted to the court was later thoroughly discredited.  Piltdown Man, for one. 

The 90th anniversary of the Scopes trial was celebrated by sources such as Politico, Time, Vox, NPR, and The Progressive.

See the problem?
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Conservatives Shouldn’t Fear Evolutionary Theory
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2019, 09:23:04 AM »
No.  I’m asking why a statement of belief in the 6 day creation has become controversial among Christians.

Well....for the reasons I expressed above, which you dismissed.  So, there we are.
Cui bono?

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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Conservatives Shouldn’t Fear Evolutionary Theory
« Reply #27 on: May 15, 2019, 10:33:57 AM »
The story of the Garden is a parable.  It should be the goal of every Christian to return there - to be reconciled with the Father - to dwell in the relationship that Adam/Eve had with G-d.
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Offline QueenCatofAragon

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Re: Conservatives Shouldn’t Fear Evolutionary Theory
« Reply #28 on: May 15, 2019, 11:05:30 AM »
The story of the Garden is a parable.  It should be the goal of every Christian to return there - to be reconciled with the Father - to dwell in the relationship that Adam/Eve had with G-d.

@Hoodat

Nope.  The NT writers referred to it as factual.  Jesus referred to it as factual.  If it’s a parable, sin didn’t occur with man’s fall—it was around long before he showed up.  And that negates the need for redemption.  It’s all meaningless.
I say this to Beto fans, Trump fans, all fans of politicians: it is un-American, ridiculous, and dangerous to be a fan of a politician. They aren't pop stars. Support them if you agree with their policies. Criticize them when they go wrong. They are servants, not celebrities. —— Matt Walsh

Offline Hoodat

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Re: Conservatives Shouldn’t Fear Evolutionary Theory
« Reply #29 on: May 15, 2019, 11:20:32 AM »
@QueenCatofAragon

I am not disputing the factual account.  I just think that the overall message should be lost over what clock G-d was using.  The principle storyline is the relationship Adam had with the Father and how that relationship suffered through Adam's actions.  Christ came to reconcile us to the Father and to restore that Garden relationship - so that the law would be fulfilled in us - so that we would be made perfect just as our Father in heaven.  The most moving part to me is when G-d cried out to Adam, 'where are you?  We have relationship here every day'.  G-d was letting us know what was important to Him.  He wants a family.
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Conservatives Shouldn’t Fear Evolutionary Theory
« Reply #30 on: May 15, 2019, 01:22:43 PM »
@truth_seeker

No doubt you were. 

snip

See the problem?
@QueenCatofAragon


Thanks. Are there other books I should avoid? Or better yet let's burn some books.  We can start with Geology books, medical books.
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Offline QueenCatofAragon

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Re: Conservatives Shouldn’t Fear Evolutionary Theory
« Reply #31 on: May 15, 2019, 02:15:37 PM »
@QueenCatofAragon

I am not disputing the factual account.  I just think that the overall message should be lost over what clock G-d was using.  The principle storyline is the relationship Adam had with the Father and how that relationship suffered through Adam's actions.  Christ came to reconcile us to the Father and to restore that Garden relationship - so that the law would be fulfilled in us - so that we would be made perfect just as our Father in heaven.  The most moving part to me is when G-d cried out to Adam, 'where are you?  We have relationship here every day'.  G-d was letting us know what was important to Him.  He wants a family.

@Hoodat

The timeline is part of the factual account, though, and important to the credibility of the rest of the book.  We have so much that points to the six day creation.  Jesus's and the apostles' acceptance of its historicity; the Hebrew grammatical construction and word for "day" which point to a sequential narrative and a 24 hour period, including the context in which that particular word is used elsewhere.

If it didn't happen that way, and Darwin's atheistic ideas are correct, then suffering and death were present in the world a long time before Adam came along.  That means God created a terrible world, not one that was "very good."  Paul lied when he said sin entered the world through one man.  Jesus and the disciples were wrong.  Peter's statement about the eventual restoration to the perfect state that existed before the Fall is a lie, as well, because there was no such thing.  How do you resolve those contradictions?

Christians are trying to adjust the Bible to fit evolutionary theory.  It should be the other way around. 








I say this to Beto fans, Trump fans, all fans of politicians: it is un-American, ridiculous, and dangerous to be a fan of a politician. They aren't pop stars. Support them if you agree with their policies. Criticize them when they go wrong. They are servants, not celebrities. —— Matt Walsh

Offline QueenCatofAragon

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Re: Conservatives Shouldn’t Fear Evolutionary Theory
« Reply #32 on: May 15, 2019, 02:19:41 PM »
@QueenCatofAragon


Thanks. Are there other books I should avoid? Or better yet let's burn some books.  We can start with Geology books, medical books.

@truth_seeker

Just stop.  You want to show me where I said we should ban or burn books?

Trying to paint me as a Puritan won't work.  Aren't you the guy who believes in avoiding frivolous, time-wasting non-factual "entertainment?"
I say this to Beto fans, Trump fans, all fans of politicians: it is un-American, ridiculous, and dangerous to be a fan of a politician. They aren't pop stars. Support them if you agree with their policies. Criticize them when they go wrong. They are servants, not celebrities. —— Matt Walsh

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Conservatives Shouldn’t Fear Evolutionary Theory
« Reply #33 on: May 15, 2019, 02:59:28 PM »
@Hoodat

The timeline is part of the factual account, though, and important to the credibility of the rest of the book.  We have so much that points to the six day creation.  Jesus's and the apostles' acceptance of its historicity; the Hebrew grammatical construction and word for "day" which point to a sequential narrative and a 24 hour period, including the context in which that particular word is used elsewhere.

If it didn't happen that way, and Darwin's atheistic ideas are correct, then suffering and death were present in the world a long time before Adam came along.  That means God created a terrible world, not one that was "very good."  Paul lied when he said sin entered the world through one man.  Jesus and the disciples were wrong.  Peter's statement about the eventual restoration to the perfect state that existed before the Fall is a lie, as well, because there was no such thing.  How do you resolve those contradictions?

Christians are trying to adjust the Bible to fit evolutionary theory.  It should be the other way around.

Of course that is true, how else would they define it?  But, what was a day before God created it?

Of course it isn't that simple:

Quote
yowm
yome
   
from an unused root meaning to be hot; a day (as the warm hours), whether literal (from sunrise to sunset, or from one sunset to the next), or figurative (a space of time defined by an associated term), (often used adverb):--age, + always, + chronicals, continually(-ance), daily, ((birth-), each, to) day, (now a, two) days (agone), + elder, X end, + evening, + (for) ever(-lasting, -more), X full, life, as (so) long as (... live), (even) now, + old, + outlived, + perpetually, presently, + remaineth, X required, season, X since, space, then, (process of) time, + as at other times, + in trouble, weather, (as) when, (a, the, within a) while (that), X whole (+ age), (full) year(-ly), + younger.
Cui bono?

Walk in Wisdom
See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

But the noble make noble plans, and by noble deeds they stand.

Offline Free Vulcan

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Re: Conservatives Shouldn’t Fear Evolutionary Theory
« Reply #34 on: May 15, 2019, 04:12:46 PM »
The problem I have with the arguments of evolutionists are starkly illustrated in this article. Namely the theory of Darwnism. That's what they with and end with.

Darwin's theory was first published 150 years ago, when science was rudimentary and we didn't even know the structure of DNA. At best his conclusions are pure speculation. With what we know today it's a shallow gloss over of biological processes and how they work.

It would be like ignoring Einstein and just going with Newton, except Darwin's theory isn't even up to Newton's level. To constantly cite Darwinism like the Left loves to do is the height of hypocrisy. They hold to the most ignorant type of religion as they call creationists cultists and kooks.

But they stick with Darwin because it's a good bludgeon to keep people ignorant and in their place. The science itself is a great deal more back and forth, but they don't want to open it up for debate, because it's an article of faith with them.

So while I keep an open mind, at the same time they need to make a better argument. So far their tea is pretty weak.
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Offline Hoodat

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Re: Conservatives Shouldn’t Fear Evolutionary Theory
« Reply #35 on: May 15, 2019, 05:05:11 PM »
Christians are trying to adjust the Bible to fit evolutionary theory.  It should be the other way around.

@QueenCatofAragon

Please understand, in no way am I trying to adjust the Bible to fit evolutionary theory.  Besides, the Cambrian explosion by itself destroys the whole 'common ancestor' tenet of Evolution.  Darwin himself (who was not an atheist) stated plainly that his theory would be either proven or disproved within a century and a half through the discovery (or non-discovery) of fossil evidence.

As for Genesis, our concept of day and night is relative to the sun shining its light on a rotating earth.  Yet the sun did not appear until the fourth day.  So days one, two, and three occurred without the very instrument we use to mark time.  And since God transcends time, He may view it in different terms than we do.  For a Being that has been around since time began, have you ever considered the relativity of God?

The bottom line is that the Creation itself is beyond our understanding:

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.  For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.  For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.

Romans 8:18-22
If a political party does not have its foundation in the determination to advance a cause that is right and that is moral, then it is not a political party; it is merely a conspiracy to seize power.

-Dwight Eisenhower-

Offline QueenCatofAragon

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Re: Conservatives Shouldn’t Fear Evolutionary Theory
« Reply #36 on: May 15, 2019, 08:45:32 PM »
@QueenCatofAragon

Please understand, in no way am I trying to adjust the Bible to fit evolutionary theory.  Besides, the Cambrian explosion by itself destroys the whole 'common ancestor' tenet of Evolution.  Darwin himself (who was not an atheist) stated plainly that his theory would be either proven or disproved within a century and a half through the discovery (or non-discovery) of fossil evidence.

As for Genesis, our concept of day and night is relative to the sun shining its light on a rotating earth.  Yet the sun did not appear until the fourth day.  So days one, two, and three occurred without the very instrument we use to mark time.  And since God transcends time, He may view it in different terms than we do.  For a Being that has been around since time began, have you ever considered the relativity of God?

The bottom line is that the Creation itself is beyond our understanding:

For I consider that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.  For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.  For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now.

Romans 8:18-22


@Hoodat


Once again, the questions I asked are not addressed (not just by you) and the subject was changed.  🤷🏻‍♀️ 

In the Genesis account, God created light, separated it from the dark, and called the first morning and evening a day.  That’s before the sun and moon were made. 

He may, He might—but we have enough evidence to know.  Not going to repeat any of it; it will probably be ignored again.   But it’s not possible to say it’s beyond us when He wanted us to know and gave us an account to that end.

You’re not going to defend Darwin, are you?  Yes, as I said in an earlier post, he went back and forth between agnosticism and atheism.  Saying you don’t believe in the Bible or Jesus Christ is pretty much textbook atheism. 

This has been an amazing thread.

I say this to Beto fans, Trump fans, all fans of politicians: it is un-American, ridiculous, and dangerous to be a fan of a politician. They aren't pop stars. Support them if you agree with their policies. Criticize them when they go wrong. They are servants, not celebrities. —— Matt Walsh

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Conservatives Shouldn’t Fear Evolutionary Theory
« Reply #37 on: May 15, 2019, 09:23:29 PM »
Oh, good grief....
Cui bono?

Walk in Wisdom
See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

But the noble make noble plans, and by noble deeds they stand.

Offline QueenCatofAragon

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Re: Conservatives Shouldn’t Fear Evolutionary Theory
« Reply #38 on: May 15, 2019, 09:33:34 PM »
Of course that is true, how else would they define it?  But, what was a day before God created it?

Of course it isn't that simple:

The question about the day was just answered elsewhere. 

As for the word “yom”, yes, actually it’s that simple.  There are different meanings.  But context.


1) The Hebrew word "yom"
The Hebrew word for day, yom, as in English, is used both for a literal, twenty-four-hour day and also for an indefinite period of time, such as in the expression “For the day of the Lord is at hand” (Joel 1:15). However, the word, yom, always means a twenty-four-hour literal day when it is used with a numeral—day one, day two, first day, second day, etc. There are no exceptions to this rule. In the Genesis Creation account, yom is used with a numeral, indicating that it intends the reader to understand that these are literal days of twenty-four hours.

@Sanguine, will you answer the question I asked earlier?  Why is it so important to try and disprove 6 day creation?  I’m asking sincerely.
I say this to Beto fans, Trump fans, all fans of politicians: it is un-American, ridiculous, and dangerous to be a fan of a politician. They aren't pop stars. Support them if you agree with their policies. Criticize them when they go wrong. They are servants, not celebrities. —— Matt Walsh

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Conservatives Shouldn’t Fear Evolutionary Theory
« Reply #39 on: May 15, 2019, 09:39:41 PM »
....

@Sanguine, will you answer the question I asked earlier?  Why is it so important to try and disprove 6 day creation?  I’m asking sincerely.

I did answer it.  Again, you dismissed my answer. 

I'm out.  This is not rational, respectful discussion and I want no more of it.  Please accept my apologies for having ever responding to this thread.
Cui bono?

Walk in Wisdom
See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

But the noble make noble plans, and by noble deeds they stand.

Offline QueenCatofAragon

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Re: Conservatives Shouldn’t Fear Evolutionary Theory
« Reply #40 on: May 15, 2019, 09:44:25 PM »
Oh, good grief....

Oh, good grief, what?  Shut down the thread if you’re that bothered by a POV that goes against the exact argument leftists use to try and disprove belief in God. 
I say this to Beto fans, Trump fans, all fans of politicians: it is un-American, ridiculous, and dangerous to be a fan of a politician. They aren't pop stars. Support them if you agree with their policies. Criticize them when they go wrong. They are servants, not celebrities. —— Matt Walsh

Offline LegalAmerican

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Re: Conservatives Shouldn’t Fear Evolutionary Theory
« Reply #41 on: May 15, 2019, 09:47:00 PM »
  GOD. 

Offline QueenCatofAragon

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Re: Conservatives Shouldn’t Fear Evolutionary Theory
« Reply #42 on: May 15, 2019, 10:04:15 PM »
I did answer it.  Again, you dismissed my answer. 

I'm out.  This is not rational, respectful discussion and I want no more of it.  Please accept my apologies for having ever responding to this thread.

Holy cow, really?  If it hasn’t been cordial why hasn’t a Mod said anything?  You know it’s been cordial.  Where have I been rude?  And no, you didn’t answer my question, though you pin others down when you want an answer.  Enjoy your tantrum, I guess. 
 
@Sanguine



I say this to Beto fans, Trump fans, all fans of politicians: it is un-American, ridiculous, and dangerous to be a fan of a politician. They aren't pop stars. Support them if you agree with their policies. Criticize them when they go wrong. They are servants, not celebrities. —— Matt Walsh

Offline QueenCatofAragon

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Re: Conservatives Shouldn’t Fear Evolutionary Theory
« Reply #43 on: May 15, 2019, 10:37:10 PM »
You know what, who needs this shit?  I mean seriously.  I keep giving this place chances but it keeps getting nuttier. 

Hey, @Sanguine, if you were the Mod who gave me that permanent ban last time—and we know you’re one—do me a favor and make it stick this time, babe. 

See y’all around the internetz.  Or not.
I say this to Beto fans, Trump fans, all fans of politicians: it is un-American, ridiculous, and dangerous to be a fan of a politician. They aren't pop stars. Support them if you agree with their policies. Criticize them when they go wrong. They are servants, not celebrities. —— Matt Walsh

Offline EdJames

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Re: Conservatives Shouldn’t Fear Evolutionary Theory
« Reply #44 on: May 15, 2019, 10:52:11 PM »
I don't understand.  I thought that it was a pretty good discussion, I was enjoying reading the posts.   :shrug:

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Conservatives Shouldn’t Fear Evolutionary Theory
« Reply #45 on: May 16, 2019, 10:21:45 AM »
You know what, who needs this shit?  I mean seriously.  I keep giving this place chances but it keeps getting nuttier. 

Hey, @Sanguine, if you were the Mod who gave me that permanent ban last time—and we know you’re one—do me a favor and make it stick this time, babe. 

See y’all around the internetz.  Or not.

Sorry, just now reading this. Just to set the record straight - I am the mod for the Texas and Intellectual Dark Web topics.  On those topics I can moderate comments, though I very seldom do.  I can't permanently ban anyone, either from those topics or the board in general.  (Which is probably a good thing.)

Questions for you: if you got a permanent ban how is it you are here?  And, who is "we" in "and we know you’re one"? 
Cui bono?

Walk in Wisdom
See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

But the noble make noble plans, and by noble deeds they stand.

Online Cyber Liberty

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Re: Conservatives Shouldn’t Fear Evolutionary Theory
« Reply #46 on: May 16, 2019, 11:49:11 AM »
You know what, who needs this shit?  I mean seriously.  I keep giving this place chances but it keeps getting nuttier. 

Hey, @Sanguine, if you were the Mod who gave me that permanent ban last time—and we know you’re one—do me a favor and make it stick this time, babe. 

See y’all around the internetz.  Or not.

Sanguine does not have the power to ban people.  This conversation is becoming toxic.  Not gonna drop a ban hammer on anybody but I may lock the thread.
« Last Edit: May 16, 2019, 05:30:13 PM by Cyber Liberty »
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Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Conservatives Shouldn’t Fear Evolutionary Theory
« Reply #47 on: May 16, 2019, 04:11:30 PM »
There is a whole lot more about Evolution, than Darwin and Judeo-Christian Biblical Creationism.

Various scientific disciplines have advance far and fast, in regard to earth's and  humans' origins.

I was NOT raised to be a young earth Biblican Southern Christian. (My most recent ancestor from theSouth was born in 1793 in South Carolina

I was ALSO Not raised to mock them.

I WAS raised by Christians that encouraged study of science. Two generations before me, in the oil business. My mother and her mother earned college degrees in science.

Since my childhood, many advances have VALIDATED science, not the least of which was putting men on the moon, treating polio with vaccines, etc.

The sun has circled the earth earth has circled the sun many times since early monothestic faiths in the mideast sought to record a plausible history of eartth and mankind.

Here is one fairly recent discovery, which advances knowledge. Göbekli Tepe

which dates to approximately 12,000 years ago.





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