Author Topic: Iran Crisis Thread (updates)  (Read 14174 times)

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Offline TomSea

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Iran Crisis Thread (updates)
« on: May 10, 2019, 05:09:10 AM »
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US sanctions on Iran are 'deliberately provocative,' expert says
Shirley Tay

U.S. President Donald Trump's new sanctions on Iran and deployment of a carrier strike group to the Middle East are "deliberately provocative," Jarrett Blanc from the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace said Thursday.

Not only do these sanctions target Iran's export revenue, it also affects a "very large employment sector of the Iranian economy," said Blanc, a senior fellow at the Washington-based think tank. This will be "understood as an effort to destabilize the middle class," he added.

Trump on Wednesday slapped fresh sanctions on Iranian industrial metals — the country's second-largest source of export revenue after petroleum — and threatened further action unless Tehran "fundamentally" changes its behavior.

Read more at: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/05/10/us-sanctions-on-iran-are-deliberately-provocative-carnegie-expert.html

Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

Maybe they are okay, I was surprised to find one think tank that was pretty left leaning but I forget which one it is.

I think it was as on the wiki page, the "Carnegie Endowment for International Peace - Middle East Center".
« Last Edit: June 15, 2019, 11:43:16 AM by TomSea »

Offline sneakypete

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Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

Maybe they are okay, I was surprised to find one think tank that was pretty left leaning but I forget which one it is.

I think it was as on the wiki page, the "Carnegie Endowment for International Peace - Middle East Center".

Tough Titty. They are Muslims. We should be trying to kill them off.
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Online edpc

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Sanctions are ‘deliberately provocative,’ but seizure of an embassy is understandable, given our decades of support for the Shah.    :shrug:
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline The Ghost

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'deliberately provocative,' expert says.

He say's that like it is a bad thing.  Some expert.  BTW, who is this jack wagon anyway and wth is CNN digging up a comment from an obscure liberal peace group.  I guess Green Peace was unavalable.
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Offline XenaLee

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Considering how emboldened and enabled Iran is now, thanks to the previous administration.... and considering how Iran is actively working with and for terrorists and other enemies of America....

one would hope that we are now being "deliberately provocative" with those sanctions.  About friggin time.
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Online edpc

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Considering how emboldened and enabled Iran is now, thanks to the previous administration.... and considering how Iran is actively working with and for terrorists and other enemies of America....

one would hope that we are now being "deliberately provocative" with those sanctions.  About friggin time.


Uhhhh.....this administration was happy to elicit the help of Iran and their Shiite militias to push ISIS out of Iraq. Thanks to that bit of brilliance, we now have Iranian influence stretching from Zabol to Beruit.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline XenaLee

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Uhhhh.....this administration was happy to elicit the help of Iran and their Shiite militias to push ISIS out of Iraq. Thanks to that bit of brilliance, we now have Iranian influence stretching from Zabol to Beruit.

I think you're confusing Trump with Obama there.

But even if that were true.... that makes what I stated inaccurate ...how, exactly?

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Offline TomSea

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I try to read up on things:

https://iranian.com/

https://theiranproject.com/

I'm under the impression that no matter what are behind these websites, they are basically based in the US and not even in Iran.

The Mullahs say troubling things, I don't have problems with the people and think most of them are decent people and a whole lot of them would like to join the West. So, Iran is a mixed bag.  I can't figure it out myself.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 03:03:24 PM by TomSea »

Online edpc

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I think you're confusing Trump with Obama there.


No, I’m not. The militias were fighting ISIS, with our tacit support, well into 2018. Those groups were instrumental in getting al-Sadr elected. He formerly led the Madhi army, who fought against us in 2003. He took refuge in Iran, while we negotiated over bringing them into the political process.


But even if that were true....that makes what I stated inaccurate...how, exactly?[/quote]


Because it doesn’t mean, what you think it means. If we end up going to war with Iran, it’s going to span across the M.E., all the way to the Mediterranean. Between the Basijj, Shiite militias, and Hezbollah, the Iraq insurgency, under Bush 43, will look puny, by comparison.

On top of it all, the sanctions don't mean a lot to us. We haven't had formal relations with them, since I was in grade school. Turkey and China have already ignored oil sanctions. Europe likely won't be of much help. Russia would be more than happy to see us bogged down in yet another M.E. conflict. It stretches our resources and puts their energy in higher demand.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2019, 03:23:39 PM by edpc »
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline XenaLee

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No, I’m not. The militias were fighting ISIS, with our tacit support, well into 2018. Those groups were instrumental in getting al-Sadr elected. He formerly led the Madhi army, who fought against us in 2003. He took refuge in Iran, while we negotiated over bringing them into the political process.

Well, first of all.... I haven't read or seen anything to back up what you claimed originally.... ie that "Trump was happy to elicit the help of Iran and their Shiite militias to push ISIS out of Iraq."  So... could you post a link to that?  I've seen other articles claiming pretty much the opposite, in fact.  This one is more recent...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/03/us/politics/trump-iraq-troops-syria-iran.html

Secondly, just because Iran was also fighting against ISIS, doesn't mean Trump was "happy".  Iran was just protecting its own interests... per usual.


Quote
But even if that were true....that makes what I stated inaccurate...how, exactly?

Because it doesn’t mean, what you think it means. If we end up going to war with Iran, it’s going to span across the M.E., all the way to the Mediterranean. Between the Basijj, Shiite militias, and Hezbollah, the Iraq insurgency, under Bush 43, will look puny, by comparison.

I don't believe there is any "if" about going to war with Iran.  I think it's pretty much a given.... only a "when" at issue.   I think it might be called something like... oh, I don't know.... WWIII/Armageddon?   :laugh:
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Online edpc

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Well, first of all.... I haven't read or seen anything to back up what you claimed originally.... ie that "Trump was happy to elicit the help of Iran and their Shiite militias to push ISIS out of Iraq."  So... could you post a link to that?  I've seen other articles claiming pretty much the opposite, in fact.  This one is more recent...

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/03/us/politics/trump-iraq-troops-syria-iran.html

Secondly, just because Iran was also fighting against ISIS, doesn't mean Trump was "happy".  Iran was just protecting its own interests... per usual.


There are plenty of them, if you care to find them. In fact, the headline of the article you cited refers to increased US presence potentially upending the fight against ISIS. They're referring to the Iranian backed (and sometimes commanded) Shiite militias. With the exception of Kurds in the north, Iraq has largely been pretty ungrateful for our continued deployment, however small.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline XenaLee

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There are plenty of them, if you care to find them. In fact, the headline of the article you cited refers to increased US presence potentially upending the fight against ISIS. They're referring to the Iranian backed (and sometimes commanded) Shiite militias. With the exception of Kurds in the north, Iraq has largely been pretty ungrateful for our continued deployment, however small.

I did a search and didn't find anything.  Perhaps you could illustrate your expertise and find one, just one, article that backs up what you claimed....?

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Online edpc

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I did a search and didn't find anything.  Perhaps you could illustrate your expertise and find one, just one, article that backs up what you claimed....?


From this past January......


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/as-iraqs-shiite-militias-expand-their-reach-concerns-about-an-isis-revival-grow/2019/01/09/52da575e-eda9-11e8-8b47-bd0975fd6199_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6fc79329d7ee
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline TomSea

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Jerusalem Post has had 2 provocative tweets over the last several hours. A little later, may sticky this and title it Iran Crisis with updates. We will see. Anyone else, is welcomed to start such a thread too and if you can't sticky it, I will.
 
Quote
Eyeing Iran, U.S. sending more Patriot missiles to Middle East
By REUTERS
May 10, 2019 23:02
https://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Eyeing-Iran-US-sending-more-Patriot-missiles-to-Middle-East-589381

Quote
Iran Guards reject U.S. talks, cleric threatens carrier
"Our nation... sees America as unreliable," said the official, according to the semi-official Tasnim news agency.
By REUTERS
May 10, 2019 17:58

https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iran-Guards-reject-US-talks-cleric-threatens-carrier-589360

Jerusalem Post twitter (lots of updates)

Sabre rattling, brinksmanship, not comfortable reading at all.


https://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Iran-Guards-reject-US-talks-cleric-threatens-carrier-589360

Offline XenaLee

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From this past January......


https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/as-iraqs-shiite-militias-expand-their-reach-concerns-about-an-isis-revival-grow/2019/01/09/52da575e-eda9-11e8-8b47-bd0975fd6199_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.6fc79329d7ee

Thanks.... but.... the only time Trump is even mentioned in that article is where it's saying Trump plans to withdraw troops from Syria.  How, exactly, does that equate to him being "happy" with Iranian help combating ISIS?  I don't get it.   :shrug:   Could you explain?

Quote
With the Trump administration now planning to withdraw U.S. troops from Syria, the influence of Iran and its aligned militias could grow even more in that country.
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Online kidd

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A think tank without facts.

Perhaps Mr. Blanc didn't hear of a very recent defection of an Iranian general.
All of these actions began shortly after his defection
https://libertyunyielding.com/2019/04/27/senior-iranian-revolutionary-guard-commander-reportedly-defects-to-the-u-s/

Iranians are planning for a major offensive and Jarrett Blanc thinks the Administration is trying to destabilize the Iranian middle class.

Offline sneakypete

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Quote
US sanctions on Iran are 'deliberately provocative,' expert says

AND????????

Does this airhead think we are supposed to suck up to them? Bastards are lucky they don't glow in the dark.
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Offline The Ghost

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A think tank without facts.

Perhaps Mr. Blanc didn't hear of a very recent defection of an Iranian general.
All of these actions began shortly after his defection
https://libertyunyielding.com/2019/04/27/senior-iranian-revolutionary-guard-commander-reportedly-defects-to-the-u-s/

Iranians are planning for a major offensive and Jarrett Blanc thinks the Administration is trying to destabilize the Iranian middle class.

If anyone was ever shooting blanc(s) it was that hockey puck. 
"The disdain of a small minority should never, absent legitimate grievance, take precedence over the majority."

Online edpc

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Thanks.... but.... the only time Trump is even mentioned in that article is where it's saying Trump plans to withdraw troops from Syria.  How, exactly, does that equate to him being "happy" with Iranian help combating ISIS?  I don't get it.   :shrug:   Could you explain?


As the CiC, he had every opportunity and right to change the tactics of what we were doing in the region. Through 2017 and 2018 those militia groups were still combating ISIS elements in Iraq. We didn’t change the operating parameters. So, he must be fine with it. Despite all of his talk about withdrawal from Syria, we’ll be keeping a contingency force there, after all.
I disagree.  Circle gets the square.

Offline Sanguine

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AND????????

Does this airhead think we are supposed to suck up to them? Bastards are lucky they don't glow in the dark.

Pretty much what we've been doing for the last 30+ years.
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." – George Mason, Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 1788

“Do right and risk the consequences.”

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Offline sneakypete

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Pretty much what we've been doing for the last 30+ years.

@Sanguine

Yes,but that doesn't mean we have to keep sucking up to them. Especially since we now have all the domestic oil we need if we want it.

Besides,the Bush and Clinton Crime Families are no longer in power,so that right there eliminates a HUGE source of the corruption we used to be saddled with.
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Offline Sanguine

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@Sanguine

Yes,but that doesn't mean we have to keep sucking up to them. Especially since we now have all the domestic oil we need if we want it.

Besides,the Bush and Clinton Crime Families are no longer in power,so that right there eliminates a HUGE source of the corruption we used to be saddled with.

@sneakypete, I'm violently agreeing with you on the "doesn't mean we have to keep sucking up to them" part.  We should never have sucked up to them, and I'm glad we are not now.
"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people, except for a few public officials." – George Mason, Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 1788

“Do right and risk the consequences.”

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Offline The Ghost

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The U.S. military has sent forces, including an aircraft carrier and B-52 bombers, to the Middle East to counter what U.S. officials have said are “clear indications” of threats from Iran to its forces there.

The USS Abraham Lincoln is replacing another carrier rotated out of the Gulf last month.

“An aircraft carrier that has at least 40 to 50 planes on it and 6,000 forces gathered within it was a serious threat for us in the past but now...the threats have switched to opportunities,” Amirali Hajizadeh, head of the Guards’ aerospace division said.

He added, “If (the Americans) make a move we will hit them in the head.”
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Baghdad Bob has apparently found a new gig in Iran. 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-iran/irans-guards-commander-says-us-military-presence-in-gulf-is-an-opportunity-isna-idUSKCN1SI056
"The disdain of a small minority should never, absent legitimate grievance, take precedence over the majority."

Offline sneakypete

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I guess if you are a REAL optimist,that is one way to look at it.
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Offline jafo2010

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All this hoopla for nothing.  The USA has had one if not two carrier task groups in the Arabian Sea since before the attack on Iraq in 2003.

This kind of fake news reporting is ridiculous!


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