Author Topic: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners  (Read 15036 times)

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Offline andy58-in-nh

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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #75 on: May 20, 2019, 05:49:53 pm »
No, it wouldn’t.

If individual states want to register firearms, they can and in some cases, already do, as they are allowed under our Constitution. 

The Federal government has no such power. I know many gun owners, including myself and I promise you that not single a one of us would ever register our guns, much less pay a fine to do so.

And if you think 180 million gun owners can effectively be bullied or forced, you are mistaken. People will get killed trying.
"The most terrifying force of death, comes from the hands of Men who wanted to be left Alone. They try, so very hard, to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love. They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it. They know, that the moment they fight back, their lives as they have lived them, are over. -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #76 on: May 20, 2019, 05:59:38 pm »

And if you think 180 million gun owners can effectively be bullied or forced, you are mistaken. People will get killed trying.

 *****rollingeyes*****

Why do the same folks, who brag about their lawlessness in the face of a State merely inconveniencing their sacrosanct gun right,  cheer the State's exercise of compulsion in forcing a woman to give birth?     Would such women be justified,  as you apparently think you are in protecting rights you deem important,  to shoot and kill pro-lifers who threaten the liberties they deem important?   
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Offline thackney

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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #77 on: May 20, 2019, 06:05:59 pm »
*****rollingeyes*****

Why do the same folks, who brag about their lawlessness in the face of a State merely inconveniencing their sacrosanct gun right,  cheer the State's exercise of compulsion in forcing a woman to give birth?     Would such women be justified,  as you apparently think you are in protecting rights you deem important,  to shoot and kill pro-lifers who threaten the liberties they deem important?   

Why do you alway try to make every gun thread about abortion?
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Offline verga

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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #78 on: May 20, 2019, 06:07:45 pm »
*****rollingeyes*****

Why do the same folks, who brag about their lawlessness in the face of a State merely inconveniencing their sacrosanct gun right,  cheer the State's exercise of compulsion in forcing a woman to give birth?     Would such women be justified,  as you apparently think you are in protecting rights you deem important,  to shoot and kill pro-lifers who threaten the liberties they deem important?   
A successful abortion ALWAYS results in the death of at least one human person. No one has a Constitutional right to an abortion or a moral right to one. The 2nd amendment guarantees that my legal and moral right to defend my life, my family, and my country with not be infringed upon. Now i know that you are going to make one of your usual halfA$$ED nonsensical replies, but I wasn't really writing this of you since you are not capable of seeing reason.
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Offline verga

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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #79 on: May 20, 2019, 06:08:33 pm »
Why do you alway try to make every gun thread about abortion?
His guitar only has one note.
In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
�More than any other time in history, mankind faces a crossroads. One path leads to despair and utter hopelessness. The other, to total extinction. Let us pray we have the wisdom to choose correctly.�-Woody Allen
If God invented marathons to keep people from doing anything more stupid, the triathlon must have taken him completely by surprise.

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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #80 on: May 20, 2019, 06:08:52 pm »
If individual states want to register firearms, they can and in some cases, already do, as they are allowed under our Constitution. 

The Federal government has no such power. I know many gun owners, including myself and I promise you that not single a one of us would ever register our guns, much less pay a fine to do so.

And if you think 180 million gun owners can effectively be bullied or forced, you are mistaken. People will get killed trying.

The federal government could quite easily impose a registration requirement under the Commerce Clause.  In fact, it’s a testament to the true idiocy and short-sightedness of liberals that it has not.  Certainly on a going-forward basis it could require the registration of all new firearms sold in interstate commerce.  It could put teeth into this requirement by providing that the manufacturer is deemed to remain the legal owner, and be liable for all injuries caused by the firearm unless it is legally registered to a new owner, who then becomes liable for any injuries caused.  The manufacturer could be given the power, or the duty, to register the new owner whether the new owner chooses to or not (private individuals would not be given the power to register someone else as the legal owner of a firearm originally registered to that private individual).

Registration of all new firearms would be a fait  accompli. 

Offline thackney

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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #81 on: May 20, 2019, 06:12:28 pm »
The federal government could quite easily impose a registration requirement under the Commerce Clause.  In fact, it’s a testament to the true idiocy and short-sightedness of liberals that it has not.  Certainly on a going-forward basis it could require the registration of all new firearms sold in interstate commerce.  It could put teeth into this requirement by providing that the manufacturer is deemed to remain the legal owner, and be liable for all injuries caused by the firearm unless it is legally registered to a new owner, who then becomes liable for any injuries caused.  The manufacturer could be given the power, or the duty, to register the new owner whether the new owner chooses to or not (private individuals would not be given the power to register someone else as the legal owner of a firearm originally registered to that private individual).

Registration of all new firearms would be a fait  accompli.

How would you handle stolen property?

How do you enforce the secondary sale registration?
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 06:13:29 pm by thackney »
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Online roamer_1

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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #82 on: May 20, 2019, 06:24:36 pm »
How so?  How does registering a firearm prevent you from owning it?

It won't prevent me from owning it. It will prevent me from registering it.
I will not comply.

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Offline txradioguy

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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #83 on: May 20, 2019, 06:37:05 pm »
Quote
How so?  How does registering a firearm prevent you from owning it?

Arbitrary requirements for "ownership" set by state legislatures that are anti 2A for starters.  Slow rolling the "registration" process to the point where it goes past the required sign up date making the guns now "illegal" to own and subject to confiscation.

Registration itself will deter many people from purchasing a gun because they don't want to go through the hassle and they don't want their personal info in yet another government data base that's subject to hacking and/or being used to monitor and control the individual.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 06:48:28 pm by txradioguy »
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Online roamer_1

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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #84 on: May 20, 2019, 06:45:33 pm »
*****rollingeyes*****

Why do the same folks, who brag about their lawlessness in the face of a State merely inconveniencing their sacrosanct gun right [...]   

Merely inconveniencing, my ass. It won't inconvenience me at all, because I will not do it, even if I have to make my guns myself.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

Not that it matters, because the Rocky Mountain states will nullify any such thing anyway - But if they didn't I surely would, as would just about everyone I know.

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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #85 on: May 20, 2019, 06:48:06 pm »
How would you handle stolen property?

How do you enforce the secondary sale registration?

If I were a democrat?  I wouldn’t, other than, perhaps, allowing the registered owner to insure against the risks.  As far as stolen property goes.

Otherwise, the registered owner would be required to report the theft to the police as soon as it was discovered, and would be required to fully cooperate with any subsequent investigation.  If the owner subsequently found the firearm, he would be required to report that fact immediately, and failure to do so would be a felony. 

Private sales would have to be reported, and the buyer would have to sign a new registration, or else the prior owner would continue to be treated as the legal owner for liability purposes. 

The legal owner would also be required to maintain a minimum level of insurance coverage at all times, and failure to do so would be a criminal offense.  Insurers would be allowed to write policies of insurance against injuries caused by a firearm and, if one wanted to be sneaky, one would prohibit them from limiting their liability by capping the damages covered. 

All of this would cut down on gun ownership quite significantly, and none of it would be an unconstitutional infringement because it’s all related to the legitimate desire of the government to ensure that gun owners act responsibly when owning a device with the potential for such grave mayhem.  Under rational basis review, such a set of laws would almost certainly pass muster. 

Like I said, it’s surprising that the democrats haven’t yet thought out such a course of action. 

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #86 on: May 20, 2019, 06:50:40 pm »
If I were a democrat?  I wouldn’t, other than, perhaps, allowing the registered owner to insure against the risks.  As far as stolen property goes.

Otherwise, the registered owner would be required to report the theft to the police as soon as it was discovered, and would be required to fully cooperate with any subsequent investigation.  If the owner subsequently found the firearm, he would be required to report that fact immediately, and failure to do so would be a felony. 

Private sales would have to be reported, and the buyer would have to sign a new registration, or else the prior owner would continue to be treated as the legal owner for liability purposes. 

The legal owner would also be required to maintain a minimum level of insurance coverage at all times, and failure to do so would be a criminal offense.  Insurers would be allowed to write policies of insurance against injuries caused by a firearm and, if one wanted to be sneaky, one would prohibit them from limiting their liability by capping the damages covered. 

All of this would cut down on gun ownership quite significantly, and none of it would be an unconstitutional infringement because it’s all related to the legitimate desire of the government to ensure that gun owners act responsibly when owning a device with the potential for such grave mayhem.  Under rational basis review, such a set of laws would almost certainly pass muster. 

Like I said, it’s surprising that the democrats haven’t yet thought out such a course of action.

Tell me...what part of "shall not infringe" is so confusing to gun grabbers like you and Jazzy?

The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

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Offline Elderberry

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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #87 on: May 20, 2019, 06:51:26 pm »
After mandatory gun registration would come ammunition sales to only lawfully registered gun owners and only the type of ammunition that matches the type of firearm lawfully registered. One may be required to prove the allowed use of previously purchased ammunition before being able to purchase additional ammunition.

Then comes registration expirations and renewals.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 06:55:29 pm by Elderberry »

Offline txradioguy

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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #88 on: May 20, 2019, 06:54:40 pm »
After mandatory gun registration would come ammunition sales to only lawfully registered gun owners and only the type of ammunition that matches the type of firearm lawfully registered.

Then comes registration expirations and renewals.

Lets not forget the micro stamping on the bullets that California requires on all new types of guns sold in the state.

Which is why they haven't been able to take advantages of upgraded version of current models of guns and newer guns since 2014 IIRC.

And as far as the renewals go...you'll have states make them so costly it turns into a defacto ban on gun ownership due to the expense.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 06:56:47 pm by txradioguy »
The libs/dems of today are the Quislings of former years. The cowards who would vote a fraud into office in exchange for handouts from the devil.

Here lies in honored glory an American soldier, known but to God

THE ESTABLISHMENT IS THE PROBLEM...NOT THE SOLUTION

Republicans Don't Need A Back Bench...They Need a BACKBONE!

Online roamer_1

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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #89 on: May 20, 2019, 06:57:29 pm »
After mandatory gun registration would come ammunition sales to only lawfully registered gun owners and only the type of ammunition that matches the type of firearm lawfully registered.

Then comes registration expirations and renewals.

And I would be deep up in the holler with an underground ammo factory and a distribution system, making bank.

City folks will never learn.


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Offline thackney

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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #90 on: May 20, 2019, 06:59:16 pm »
All of this would cut down on gun ownership quite significantly, and none of it would be an unconstitutional infringement

We will have to disagree.
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Offline andy58-in-nh

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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #91 on: May 20, 2019, 07:01:11 pm »
The federal government could quite easily impose a registration requirement under the Commerce Clause.  In fact, it’s a testament to the true idiocy and short-sightedness of liberals that it has not.  Certainly on a going-forward basis it could require the registration of all new firearms sold in interstate commerce.  It could put teeth into this requirement by providing that the manufacturer is deemed to remain the legal owner, and be liable for all injuries caused by the firearm unless it is legally registered to a new owner, who then becomes liable for any injuries caused.  The manufacturer could be given the power, or the duty, to register the new owner whether the new owner chooses to or not (private individuals would not be given the power to register someone else as the legal owner of a firearm originally registered to that private individual).

Registration of all new firearms would be a fait  accompli.

If your interpretation of the Commerce Clause were correct, then there would be no legal restriction on the Federal government to regulate the manufacture, sale, transportation and ownership of anything, anywhere, by anyone in the United States. Fortunately, and despite one foolish and mistaken Supreme Court decision, the Federal government has no such breath of power. Otherwise, state sovereignty would be meaningless, as would the rest of our Constitution.

Under such circumstances and without the right of firearms ownership, the Federal government would be an authoritarian power and we, its subjects. That's what a lot of people truly want these days, it would seem.  But it will never stop the criminals. And it won't stop the rebels, either.
"The most terrifying force of death, comes from the hands of Men who wanted to be left Alone. They try, so very hard, to mind their own business and provide for themselves and those they love. They resist every impulse to fight back, knowing the forced and permanent change of life that will come from it. They know, that the moment they fight back, their lives as they have lived them, are over. -Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #92 on: May 20, 2019, 07:01:29 pm »
If it uses, or affects, or at one time passed through, the instrumentalities of interstate commerce, it is amenable to regulation by Congress under the Commerce Clause. 

If a good initially travelled in interstate commerce, then subsequent commercial transactions with it are amenable to regulation. 

One needn’t even go as far as Wickard v. Filburn.

Thanks for the cite!  That was the case I mentioned upthread about the Commerce Clause.
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Bill Cipher

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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #93 on: May 20, 2019, 07:04:19 pm »
Tell me...what part of "shall not infringe" is so confusing to gun grabbers like you and Jazzy?



I’m not a gun-grabber, so you’re addressing the wrong person. 

I’m explaining how the democrats could go about it in a constitutional manner if they really thought about it instead of simply responding in a Pavlovian fashion. 

What part of “like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited.  It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose ....” as per Justice Scalia, do you not understand?

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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #94 on: May 20, 2019, 07:05:32 pm »
If your interpretation of the Commerce Clause were correct, then there would be no legal restriction on the Federal government to regulate the manufacture, sale, transportation and ownership of anything, anywhere, by anyone in the United States. Fortunately, and despite one foolish and mistaken Supreme Court decision, the Federal government has no such breath of power. Otherwise, state sovereignty would be meaningless, as would the rest of our Constitution.

Under such circumstances and without the right of firearms ownership, the Federal government would be an authoritarian power and we, its subjects. That's what a lot of people truly want these days, it would seem.  But it will never stop the criminals. And it won't stop the rebels, either.

Actually, the federal government pretty much does have that power under the Commerce Clause.  Sorry to break it to you.

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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #95 on: May 20, 2019, 07:09:51 pm »
We will have to disagree.

Really?  What part?

The government definitely has a substantial interest in seeing that gun owners behave responsibly, which would justify an insurance requirement.  In order to ensure that the insurance requirement was being complied with, and in order to allow claims against an insurance policy to be made if a gun was used to cause injuries, a registration system becomes necessary.  And requiring an insurance company to cover all claims made during a coverage period without a dollar cap is a simple and accepted use of the power to regulate insurance. 

All of the parts are legitimate concerns to the government and a legal mandate would almost certainly pass muster. 

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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #96 on: May 20, 2019, 07:10:19 pm »
Lets not forget the micro stamping on the bullets that California requires on all new types of guns sold in the state.

Which is why they haven't been able to take advantages of upgraded version of current models of guns and newer guns since 2014 IIRC.

I've got a buddy I used to punch cows with back in the day... He's down down in the Sierras... I asked him about that. He said Arizona ain't that far...

Offline Elderberry

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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #97 on: May 20, 2019, 07:10:37 pm »
http://firearmsfreedomact.com/

Quote
What is the Commerce Clause?

What is the Commerce Clause and Why is it Important?
by Gary Marbut

During colonial times in America, there was a problem with commerce that crossed lines between colonies.  More specifically, some colonies would practice predatory taxation upon goods passing through enroute from colony A to colony B.  For example, suppose the Carolinas were shipping tobacco to market in New York.  Suppose that enroute Virginia placed such a heavy tax on the goods passing through that they would not be marketable, pricewise, upon reaching New York markets.

This was an issue that the Continental Congress and the framers of the U.S. Constitution felt Congress must have the power to address.  Therefore, the original Constitution contained the provision at Article II, Section 8:

“The Congress shall have power … To regulate commerce with foreign nations, and among the several states, and with the Indian tribes;”

Congress’s power to “regulate commerce … among the states” is now often referred to as done under the “interstate commerce clause” or just the “commerce clause.”

Commerce clause power was not much used by Congress until the New Deal and the administration of President Franklin D. Roosevelt (FDR).  During that administration, Roosevelt attempted to assert a lot of federal power that had not been previously asserted by the federal government.  However, a number of such laws pressed through Congress were found by the U.S. Supreme Court to lack constitutional authority.  For many of these pet endeavors, FDR claimed commerce clause authority.

Upon being rebuffed by the Supreme Court, Roosevelt threatened to expand the number of justices on the Court in order to be able to pack the Court with sympathizers and thereby gain court approval of his threatened New Deal programs.  That created something of a standoff between Roosevelt and the Supreme Court.

It was into this politically-charged situation that the legal case of Wickard v. Filburn came to the Supreme Court.  Because of the real threat of Court-packing by Roosevelt, the Supreme Court blinked on Wickard.

Wickard was a wheat farmer in Illinois and Filburn was the Secretary of Agriculture.  In order to maintain wheat prices, Congress had instituted price supports for Wheat markets, along with quotas for growing wheat.  Wickard was not only growing wheat for market, but he also grew an extra acre of wheat to harvest to give to his wife to grind into flour to make bread for the Wickard family.  The Department of Agriculture, tasked to enforce the wheat quotas, asserted that the acre of wheat Wickard grew for his family was a violation of the quotas.

Wickard sued.  The Department of Agriculture claimed that Congress had commerce clause authority under the Constitution to prohibit Wickard’s practice of growing wheat for his family.  Even though it was admitted that the wheat Wickard grew for his family never left the farm, the Department of Agriculture claimed that this practice affected interstate commerce.  If Wickard had not given this wheat to his wife, the government argued, it might have traveled across a state line and could have affected interstate commerce.  Further, the government argued, if Wickard had not given farm-grown wheat to his wife to feed the family, his wife would have bought bread at the store – bread that might have crossed a state line and might have affected interstate commerce.

Thus, the government argued, Congress had sufficient constitutional authority under the commerce clause to impose the wheat quotas on Wickard and prohibit him from growing extra wheat to feed his family.

When presented with this argument and the Roosevelt threat to expand and pack the Supreme Court, the Court upheld the government’s arguments in Wickard, thereby dramatically expanding the power of Congress to “regulate commerce … among the states.”

Since the New Deal, a large proportion of laws enacted by Congress are theoretically founded on commerce clause power.

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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #98 on: May 20, 2019, 07:19:56 pm »
I've got a buddy I used to punch cows with back in the day... He's down down in the Sierras... I asked him about that. He said Arizona ain't that far...

CA and AZ are like night and day about gun laws. 
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Re: Cory Booker proposes national license for all gun owners
« Reply #99 on: May 20, 2019, 07:24:27 pm »
CA and AZ are like night and day about gun laws.

Yeah - He goes up to Kingston(?) for vacation a couple times a year and brings stuff home. Look! No registration, no serialization... Well, how'd that happen?