Author Topic: Proposed law would allow Texas to sue Facebook and Twitter for limiting free speech  (Read 2200 times)

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Offline truth_seeker

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Proposed law would allow Texas to sue Facebook and Twitter for limiting free speech

by Texas TribuneMonday, April 29th 2019


BY ELIZABETH BYRNE, Texas Tribune
A bill before the Texas Senate seeks to prevent social media platforms like Facebook and Twitter from censoring users based on their viewpoints. Supporters say it would protect the free exchange of ideas, but critics say the bill contradicts a federal law that allows social media platforms to regulate their own content.

snip

"U.S. Sen. Ted Cruz raised similar concerns about social media censorship at a Senate Judiciarcommittee hearing April 10. Cruz, a Republican, threatened federal regulation of social media sites in response to allegations that they censor conservative content and users. Representatives from both Facebook and Twitter testified at the hearing. Google was invited to testify, but Cruz rejected the company's witness.
ssnip

https://news4sanantonio.com/news/local/proposed-law-would-allow-texas-to-sue-facebook-and-twitter-for-limiting-free-speech
« Last Edit: May 07, 2019, 04:47:39 am by Sanguine »
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Offline EdJames

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Hard pass on that one.

No place for any government (State or Federal) to dictate how a private enterprise runs their business.

Don't like the way that you are treated on Facebook or Twitter?  Close your account and leave.  It is just that simple.

Offline ABX

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Hard pass on that one.

No place for any government (State or Federal) to dictate how a private enterprise runs their business.

Don't like the way that you are treated on Facebook or Twitter?  Close your account and leave.  It is just that simple.

Exactly. Anything that can be used to force something we want, can be used against us as well. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take away everything you have.

What's next, the government forcing a Conservative site to not ban DU trolls?  How about if a Jewish site is forced to not ban Stormfronters? Why limit it to the internet. We are talking about content curation. Should a Christian bookstore be forced to carry all authors?

Let the market decide.  If you don't like what Facebook is doing, close your account. Don't let them keep pimping you out on the street corner to data miners.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Even better, maybe Barr will gaze that way as well.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Sanguine

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Hard pass on that one.

No place for any government (State or Federal) to dictate how a private enterprise runs their business.

Don't like the way that you are treated on Facebook or Twitter?  Close your account and leave.  It is just that simple.

I think I disagree with that.  I'm still thinking about it. 

These megacompanies have massive influence and do not have any real controls as to what they can do.  It's a whole new world out there.  We really haven't dealt with anything like this, historically.

Offline EdJames

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I think I disagree with that.  I'm still thinking about it. 

These megacompanies have massive influence and do not have any real controls as to what they can do.  It's a whole new world out there.  We really haven't dealt with anything like this, historically.

Well, the key is to filter out any particular wishes and desires and focus on the principles in play.

Most of us object strenuously to government dictating the business of private entities.  We've objected for years to the CAFE standards forcing automakers to produce "high mileage" death traps that have caused untold numbers of deaths each year.  We object to government stepping in and forcing bakers to make cakes for purposes that go against their moral or religious beliefs.

As I am sure that most would object to government mandating that a forum like this permit DU-style members to inflame the threads (or vice versa).

And we have to worry about allowing these type of "unparalleled or unforeseen in history" style arguments creep in.  That sounds similar to the anti-2nd amendment types that scream about "the Founders weren't thinking about ASSAULT rifles!!"

If we believe in the principles of private property and the right to associate freely, we have to maintain that belief even when the particular application may not suit our particular wishes and desires at the moment.

If conservatives are concerned that the major social media platforms will not be ready vehicles to support chosen candidates in upcoming elections, then it is incumbent on conservatives to not rely on these platforms, and ensure that they find other avenues to get their messages out.

Offline Sanguine

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Well, the key is to filter out any particular wishes and desires and focus on the principles in play.

Most of us object strenuously to government dictating the business of private entities.  We've objected for years to the CAFE standards forcing automakers to produce "high mileage" death traps that have caused untold numbers of deaths each year.  We object to government stepping in and forcing bakers to make cakes for purposes that go against their moral or religious beliefs.

As I am sure that most would object to government mandating that a forum like this permit DU-style members to inflame the threads (or vice versa).

And we have to worry about allowing these type of "unparalleled or unforeseen in history" style arguments creep in.  That sounds similar to the anti-2nd amendment types that scream about "the Founders weren't thinking about ASSAULT rifles!!"

If we believe in the principles of private property and the right to associate freely, we have to maintain that belief even when the particular application may not suit our particular wishes and desires at the moment.

If conservatives are concerned that the major social media platforms will not be ready vehicles to support chosen candidates in upcoming elections, then it is incumbent on conservatives to not rely on these platforms, and ensure that they find other avenues to get their messages out.

Sounds great, but I'm not sure this is correct.   And, what "particular desires and wishes" are you referring to?
« Last Edit: May 08, 2019, 01:43:50 pm by Sanguine »

Offline EdJames

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Sounds great, but I'm not sure this is correct.   And, what "particular desires and wishes" are you referring to?

@Sanguine

The "particular desires and wishes" I am referring to is: Wouldn't it be nice if all of the major social media platforms were open and welcoming of all political and social points of view.  Wouldn't it be nice if conservative and libertarian voices were free to express themselves on these platforms and not be banned or otherwise limited in their participation.  Wouldn't it be nice if all political candidates could use these platforms are viable and effective mechanisms for attracting voters?  and so forth...

Offline Sanguine

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@Sanguine

The "particular desires and wishes" I am referring to is: Wouldn't it be nice if all of the major social media platforms were open and welcoming of all political and social points of view.  Wouldn't it be nice if conservative and libertarian voices were free to express themselves on these platforms and not be banned or otherwise limited in their participation.  Wouldn't it be nice if all political candidates could use these platforms are viable and effective mechanisms for attracting voters?  and so forth...

Ah, I see.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Ah, I see.
Yes, it is nirvana.

The starting place is to put country before one's own personal interests.  In almost all times, this becomes the nonstarter.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Sanguine

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Yes, it is nirvana.

The starting place is to put country before one's own personal interests.  In almost all times, this becomes the nonstarter.

If I'm understanding what you are saying, that's my point.  These companies owe no allegiance to any country.  They will do what is best for them and not for all the people they affect.

Offline EdJames

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If I'm understanding what you are saying, that's my point.  These companies owe no allegiance to any country.  They will do what is best for them and not for all the people they affect.

I'm not sure exactly what that point was.  However, I will mention that these publicly traded corporations like Facebook and Twitter owe their primary allegiance to their shareholders (like any corporation).  And, one of their core duties to the shareholders is to maximize shareholder value. 

That is possibly an approach to countering the type of actions at issue.  Can a case be made that they are harming shareholder value by driving away users (banning some, partially banning other's content, etc.)?   Which in turn is causing negative publicity that is causing more people to abandon the platforms.  Is this a valid argument that a large enough shareholder block (not any governments) could mount?  :pondering:

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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If I'm understanding what you are saying, that's my point.  These companies owe no allegiance to any country.  They will do what is best for them and not for all the people they affect.
Yes, we agree.

Patriotism in the media and companies like this used to be prominent; now it is secondary to an agenda which drives their actions, actions which are frequently an anathema to this country's well-being.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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I'm not sure exactly what that point was.  However, I will mention that these publicly traded corporations like Facebook and Twitter owe their primary allegiance to their shareholders (like any corporation).  And, one of their core duties to the shareholders is to maximize shareholder value. 

That is possibly an approach to countering the type of actions at issue.  Can a case be made that they are harming shareholder value by driving away users (banning some, partially banning other's content, etc.)?   Which in turn is causing negative publicity that is causing more people to abandon the platforms.  Is this a valid argument that a large enough shareholder block (not any governments) could mount?  :pondering:
No, that is an incomplete statement that is exactly the point @Sanguine was making.

You left out ...maximize shareholder value while at the same time upholding the values and principles instilled in this country by its Constitution and the people of the United States.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline Sanguine

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No, that is an incomplete statement that is exactly the point @Sanguine was making.

You left out ...maximize shareholder value while at the same time upholding the values and principles instilled in this country by its Constitution and the people of the United States.

Thank you, @IsailedawayfromFR.  That is indeed the now missing ingredient.  The environment has changed, and we need to figure out how to adapt to it. 

Offline EdJames

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No, that is an incomplete statement that is exactly the point @Sanguine was making.

You left out ...maximize shareholder value while at the same time upholding the values and principles instilled in this country by its Constitution and the people of the United States.

While I agree with the sentiment, I doubt that you will find many (any?) Fortune 500 companies that include your bolded portion as a part of their mission.  Certainly you won't find that to be the case for any multinationals.   :shrug:

Offline Sanguine

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While I agree with the sentiment, I doubt that you will find many (any?) Fortune 500 companies that include your bolded portion as a part of their mission.  Certainly you won't find that to be the case for any multinationals.   :shrug:

Agreed, but in the very recent past, companies were held to task by their customer base and their neighbors.  That is not the case for Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc.  They do not share a common....well, anything aside from the quest for profits and market share/dominance.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Agreed, but in the very recent past, companies were held to task by their customer base and their neighbors.  That is not the case for Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc.  They do not share a common....well, anything aside from the quest for profits and market share/dominance.
I muse about what % of the customer base and shareholders are actually US citizens anyway.

I know they are US companies but that constituent base is likely a minority to them
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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While I agree with the sentiment, I doubt that you will find many (any?) Fortune 500 companies that include your bolded portion as a part of their mission.  Certainly you won't find that to be the case for any multinationals.   :shrug:
Any multinationals?  Man is that a stretch or imagination?

While I do not know of most of the Fortune 500 companies, I certainly do know of one I worked for, one of the largest in the world, Exxon.

Here's a summary of its guiding principles

Our guiding principles
Exxon Mobil Corporation is committed to being the world's premier petroleum and chemical manufacturing company. To that end, we must continuously achieve superior financial and operating results while adhering to high ethical standards.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline ABX

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Any multinationals?  Man is that a stretch or imagination?

While I do not know of most of the Fortune 500 companies, I certainly do know of one I worked for, one of the largest in the world, Exxon.

Here's a summary of its guiding principles

Our guiding principles
Exxon Mobil Corporation is committed to being the world's premier petroleum and chemical manufacturing company. To that end, we must continuously achieve superior financial and operating results while adhering to high ethical standards.


My company (fortune 15) drills ethical behavior into employees at every turn.  We have more ethics type webcasts than we do earnings webcasts.

It isn't even because if fluffy bubby do the right thing feelings stuff. Unethical behavior on the part of employees can cost the company millions. For example, improperly veryifying a customers identification can cost millions in lawsuits.

Offline truth_seeker

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Agreed, but in the very recent past, companies were held to task by their customer base and their neighbors.  That is not the case for Google, Facebook, Twitter, etc.  They do not share a common....well, anything aside from the quest for profits and market share/dominance.

Standard Oil, ATT & T, banks, phone cos, and others were boken up. Shareholders often did better.


Facebook, Google have the knowledge, the  means and inclination, to heavily influence elections, and your children's minds.

If conservatives can be routinely silenced, they will have to chance to compete.

Only because of "regulation" (and some government involvement) do non-economical customers (rural) get phone and utility services, mail.

Extend that to clean water, air etc.

Those facts argue it is naive to presume an entirely free market will serve users.

Every time I see the term "stakeholders," I cringe. But I realize it arose to consider the aspects of life, not adequately covered by unregulated markets.

Further some at the top of Big Tech aren't even trustworthy, insofar as we saw Google surrender to China, for market access. IOW do you trust them, too?

Finally the sttory is not done, on the degree  to which our 2016 AND 2018 elections were influenced by big media.







"God must love the common man, he made so many of them.�  Abe Lincoln

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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My company (fortune 15) drills ethical behavior into employees at every turn.  We have more ethics type webcasts than we do earnings webcasts.

It isn't even because if fluffy bubby do the right thing feelings stuff. Unethical behavior on the part of employees can cost the company millions. For example, improperly veryifying a customers identification can cost millions in lawsuits.
I agree.  I have worked corporately for several companies, and ethical behavior(read implicitly patriotic) makes the best companies successful (e.g Chic Fil A) whereas unethical behavior results in failure (e.g. Enron)
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Exactly. Anything that can be used to force something we want, can be used against us as well. A government big enough to give you everything you want is big enough to take away everything you have.

What's next, the government forcing a Conservative site to not ban DU trolls?  How about if a Jewish site is forced to not ban Stormfronters? Why limit it to the internet. We are talking about content curation. Should a Christian bookstore be forced to carry all authors?

Let the market decide.  If you don't like what Facebook is doing, close your account. Don't let them keep pimping you out on the street corner to data miners.

And I would add that once government is given a power, explicitly or implicitly, the first duty of the agency(ies) responsible to wield that power is to protect and expand on that power.
My avatar shows the national debt in stacks of $100 bills.  If you look very closely under the crane you can see the Statue of Liberty.

Offline IsailedawayfromFR

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Does anyone know how this proposed action came out?

Pretty pertinent right now.
No punishment, in my opinion, is too great, for the man who can build his greatness upon his country's ruin~  George Washington

Offline thackney

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Does anyone know how this proposed action came out?

Pretty pertinent right now.

Last action
2019-05-14   House   Left pending in committee

https://legiscan.com/TX/bill/SB2373/2019
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