Warren Rule: Minimum Wage Earner Should Be Able to Afford Spouse, Child and Mortgage

[ABX]

Oh here you go again.  Maybe Americans could afford mortgage, spouse and child if they didn't have to raise all those illegal immigrant families also....

That's nothing. I have to raise the largest federal government in the world, one that spends like they are a teenage girl in the mall with her dad's credit card..

[Chosen Daughter]

  THIS RIGHT HERE! 

That makes my blood boil. Natural born Americans are all fat and lazy.   

Mine too!   

[goatprairie]

What trying to make minimum wage so high it can support a family is telling the average American that he or she doesn't have to worry about seeking a good job. Whatever job you get will support you.
And what if an employer only needs a person for twenty or less hours per week?  Still have to pay the employee a living wage?
They can forget about post-high school training and just get a job flipping burgers or something similar.
Nothing wrong with that kind of job, but it tells people not to work hard for a good, higher paying job. Just sit back and let Big Government run your life for you.

[Chosen Daughter]

What trying to make minimum wage so high it can support a family is telling the average American that he or she doesn't have to worry about seeking a good job. Whatever job you get will support you.
And what if an employer only needs a person for twenty or less hours per week?  Still have to pay the employee a living wage?
They can forget about post-high school training and just get a job flipping burgers or something similar.
Nothing wrong with that kind of job, but it tells people not to work hard for a good, higher paying job. Just sit back and let Big Government run your life for you.

Someone has to do those jobs.  What is your suggestion, and if your not working to support yourself and your family what are you working for?  Maybe you want all those people who are undereducated to live on welfare?  Otherwise they must make enough to live.  Look around.  Cities are filling up with homeless camps.  They will be parking on your door soon.  Yes some are addicts but there are people who just couldn't afford the high rent and high taxes.

[Cyber Liberty]

Someone has to do those jobs.  What is your suggestion, and if your not working to support yourself and your family what are you working for?  Maybe you want all those people who are undereducated to live on welfare?  Otherwise they must make enough to live.  Look around.  Cities are filling up with homeless camps.  They will be parking on your door soon.  Yes some are addicts but there are people who just couldn't afford the high rent and high taxes.

I think we have an "ambition gap," and that says "drugs" to me.

[libertybele]

Bingo.   And it's why we have so many illegals -- those jobs still need to get done and they do them well, without the complaint and high turnover of those with the mindset you describe above.   

And while I acknowledge the problem this nation has with so many illegals,  that's why I can't get too upset about them.   They're here because employers need them.   They are rational actors, willing to do a day's work for a day's pay.

Actually @Jazzhead I was referring to LEGAL U.S. citizens who have collected welfare for generations and have no motive, nor incentive to work.

The case that most illegals work and/or come her for a better life is absolute b.s.  Illegals are the reason why taxes keep going up ...the economy cannot sustain supporting them.

[240B]

Raising the minimum wage does not work. According to economic math it can never work. It is exactly like a dog chasing its tail.

Basic economics which Liberals are incapable of comprehending. When wages go up, demand goes up. When demand goes up, prices go up. Ergo, no matter what the minimum wage is, it will necessarily always be the minimum wage because all the other standard wages will have to increase because of price increases due to the increase in demand. So, all an increase in minimum wage does is to reset the entire wage scale and fuel inflation.

If today we say the wage gap is maybe $25 per hour to $7.5 per hour and we increase that, then nothing changes. Now the wage gap becomes $50 per hour to $15 per hour and prices/inflation will compensate for the change and everything remains the same except for which numbers are being used.

[libertybele]

Raising the minimum wage does not work. According to economic math it can never work. It is exactly like a dog chasing its tail.

Basic economics which Liberals are incapable of comprehending. When wages go up, demand goes up. When demand goes up, prices go up. Ergo, no matter what the minimum wage is, it will necessarily always be the minimum wage because all the other standard wages will have to increase because of price increases due to the increase in demand. So, all an increase in minimum wage does is to reset the entire wage scale and fuel inflation.

If today we say the wage gap is maybe $25 per hour to $7.5 per hour and we increase that, then nothing changes. Now the wage gap becomes $50 per hour to $15 per hour and prices/inflation will compensate for the change and everything remains the same except for which numbers are being used.

Most people with half a logical brain cell understands this ... but  the average liberal mental midget will buy into this hype.

[InHeavenThereIsNoBeer]

Someone has to do those jobs.  What is your suggestion, and if your not working to support yourself and your family what are you working for?  Maybe you want all those people who are undereducated to live on welfare?  Otherwise they must make enough to live.  Look around.  Cities are filling up with homeless camps.  They will be parking on your door soon.  Yes some are addicts but there are people who just couldn't afford the high rent and high taxes.

First and foremost, don't have a family to support if a minimum wage job is all you are qualified for.  Get a couple roommates, show up on time, pick up extra shifts and ask to be given new tasks.  In a month, you won't be making minimum wage anymore, as employers will recognize that you are an asset.  As you learn new tasks, work up to a position that pays better, become an assistant manager, perhaps go to community college, etc. 

And as you move up, positions open for others to follow.  If we could somehow mandate a living wage for that minimum wage job, there's a lot of people who would simply accept that as their lot in life.  What path does that lead for teens to build up some work experience?  Minimum wage jobs are the entrance to the workplace for many with limited education/skills/etc.  What happens when you close that door to them?

[240B]

Where I live, basically anywhere in America, there are lots of Hispanic illegals. These guys live in a real true communal group just like the hippies envisioned in the 60s. They live with a dozen or two dozen people to a house. Anyone who can work, does work, usually at one or more minimum wage jobs seven days a week. They pool all the money from a couple of dozen paychecks to make ends meet. Usually, they are getting food stamps, using food pantries for groceries, and getting some kind of government assistance. Once they tally up all the money and goods at the end of the month, they are actually pretty well off and are driving huge newer trucks and vans for work.

The admirable thing about this model is that it really is egalitarian. The workers support the old, the sick, and the children, and the old mind the house, the cooking, and the children.  It works and they thrive here in our environment.

I doubt that Americans could pull this off. Americans are much too materialistic, self centered, and selfish for them to be able to do this. Americans are used to possessions and leisure. Americans are simply not trained to be poor. They don't know how to do it. Whereas the immigrants were born into poverty and have live that way their entire life. When they come to America, all they see is manna falling from the sky. And they all rush to gather as much of it as possible.

[goatprairie]

Someone has to do those jobs.  What is your suggestion, and if your not working to support yourself and your family what are you working for?  Maybe you want all those people who are undereducated to live on welfare?  Otherwise they must make enough to live.  Look around.  Cities are filling up with homeless camps.  They will be parking on your door soon.  Yes some are addicts but there are people who just couldn't afford the high rent and high taxes.

Where did I say they weren't important? But do you know how many people work minimum wage jobs? Four percent of the workforce. And that's mostly the very young or the very old/retired.
You can cite anecdotes all you want, but I like to deal in hard facts.
It's like in the early nineties when homeless advocate Mitch Snyder claimed there were over two million homeless in the country.
Then somebody did an analysis and found it was one tenth of that number. Snyder became a pariah and unfortunately committed suicide not long after the truth was revealed.
We aren't yet at the point where we have to subsidize half the population.

[Jazzhead]

Raising the minimum wage simply encourages the underground economy, which in turn fuels the demand for illegal immigrants.    As @240B  explains,  everything is relative - that $10 an hour job may be illegal in some places,  and beneath the pride and dignity of some Americans,   but to an immigrant coming from a background of poverty,  it is manna,  and if striving means living a dozen or so to a house and pooling skills and resources,  then so be it. 
 

[IsailedawayfromFR]

Bingo.   And it's why we have so many illegals -- those jobs still need to get done and they do them well, without the complaint and high turnover of those with the mindset you describe above.   

And while I acknowledge the problem this nation has with so many illegals,  that's why I can't get too upset about them.   They're here because employers need them.   They are rational actors, willing to do a day's work for a day's pay.

making illegal activity synonymous with jobs is illogical.

We have so many illegals because they broke our laws.

It is really that simple, and to obfuscate that fact in any way is dishonest.

[skeeter]

Raising the minimum wage simply encourages the underground economy, which in turn fuels the demand for illegal immigrants.    As @240B  explains,  everything is relative - that $10 an hour job may be illegal in some places,  and beneath the pride and dignity of some Americans,   but to an immigrant coming from a background of poverty,  it is manna,  and if striving means living a dozen or so to a house and pooling skills and resources,  then so be it.

Enjoy your cheap 'hard working' labor while we all slouch towards socialism.

[jmyrlefuller]

Raising the minimum wage simply encourages the underground economy, which in turn fuels the demand for illegal immigrants.    As @240B  explains,  everything is relative - that $10 an hour job may be illegal in some places,  and beneath the pride and dignity of some Americans,   but to an immigrant coming from a background of poverty,  it is manna,  and if striving means living a dozen or so to a house and pooling skills and resources,  then so be it.

The problem is, if a legal citizen resorted to living a dozen or so to a house, they would immediately be arrested for code violations. An illegal alien is already breaking the law by being here, so they take that risk.

Unlawful entry begets unlawful, risky behavior.

[Chosen Daughter]

Where did I say they weren't important? But do you know how many people work minimum wage jobs? Four percent of the workforce. And that's mostly the very young or the very old/retired.
You can cite anecdotes all you want, but I like to deal in hard facts.
It's like in the early nineties when homeless advocate Mitch Snyder claimed there were over two million homeless in the country.
Then somebody did an analysis and found it was one tenth of that number. Snyder became a pariah and unfortunately committed suicide not long after the truth was revealed.
We aren't yet at the point where we have to subsidize half the population.

I am just stating the facts.  I worked for 15 years at a company that Mitt Romneys corporation bought out.  I was laid off because of outsourcing.  I had to start over.  In the manufacturing industry it is flooded with cheap immigrant labor.  More and more so all the time.  These people are making good money being that the state is providing everything for them.  It was a long road to get back to my wages I earned at that company.  The job I am in now I started at minimum wage.  I have been there years now and no longer make minimum wage.  But people do get in those situations and still have families to support.  Even at the wage I am now it isn't easy making ends meat.  I was making the same wage in 2016 I did in 1996.  Everything is more expensive now. 

We need to level the playing field.  Immigrants shouldn't get subsidies that Americans can't.  If they can't live on the wages we make they should go home.  It is drawing illegal immigrants here and the people who make the same wages as they do are flipping the bill for all their subsidies.


Oh and we also need to own up to college graduates working at minimum wage jobs.  We keep raising HB Visas and hiring foreigners instead of Americans.  Its corporate welfare provided by the government.

[Jazzhead]

making illegal activity synonymous with jobs is illogical.

We have so many illegals because they broke our laws.

It is really that simple, and to obfuscate that fact in any way is dishonest.

We have so many illegals because so many employers are willing to engage them.    Dealing with that reality is the key to solving the problem.

But no one ever wants to deal with the demand side. 

[skeeter]

We have so many illegals because so many employers are willing to engage them.    Dealing with that reality is the key to solving the problem.

But no one ever wants to deal with the demand side.

I would enthusiastically support a policy of charging employers who employ illegals of defrauding the taxpayer with a warning for the first offense, hefty fine for the second and mandatory jail term for the third.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

We have so many illegals because so many employers are willing to engage them.    Dealing with that reality is the key to solving the problem.

But no one ever wants to deal with the demand side.

completely disassociated from reality.

Illegals break our laws prior to ever getting a job.

That is why they are called illegals.

[dfwgator]

completely disassociated from reality.

Illegals break our laws prior to ever getting a job.

That is why they are called illegals.

The point is, employers support lax immigration laws to ensure the free flow of cheap labor,  the fact that most illegals don't want to work doesn't matter to them,  as long as enough do want to work, and to keep the downward pressure on wages.

[IsailedawayfromFR]

The point is, employers support lax immigration laws to ensure the free flow of cheap labor,  the fact that most illegals don't want to work doesn't matter to them,  as long as enough do want to work, and to keep the downward pressure on wages.

I also support throwing employers in jail who hire illegals, but that does not diminish the crime illegals make in being here one iota.

[Cyber Liberty]

We have so many illegals because so many employers are willing to engage them.    Dealing with that reality is the key to solving the problem.

But no one ever wants to deal with the demand side.

Do both sides.

[Fishrrman]

Aw heck, folks.

Why don't we just make the minimum wage $65,000 per year, whether full time or part time? With 5 weeks' paid vacation, 5 months of paid maternity leave, 6 weeks of paid "family time off" for anyone who needs it, full medical benefits with no copay, and all that...?

Won't that solve everything?

[Smokin Joe]

What trying to make minimum wage so high it can support a family is telling the average American that he or she doesn't have to worry about seeking a good job. Whatever job you get will support you.
And what if an employer only needs a person for twenty or less hours per week?  Still have to pay the employee a living wage?
They can forget about post-high school training and just get a job flipping burgers or something similar.
Nothing wrong with that kind of job, but it tells people not to work hard for a good, higher paying job. Just sit back and let Big Government run your life for you.

I think instead it is to compensate for the worthless college degrees being put out in subjects which would ordinarily lead to unemployment.
There was a time when a man making $100/week could raise a family on that single income.
But the currency was inflated, the folks pushing the ERA got enough people to buy into that second income, and the price of cars, houses, etc. jumped. Then the environmentalists called for more gadgets to make your car smoke less (raising the price), others wanted it safer rather than learn how to drive (more expense) and that new car went from $3,000 to 15,000 in a few short years. THen there was the CRA, with houses being bought and flipped for profit, and soon a crackerbox most anywhere went from 30K to 250K or more. In short, more often than not, government policy made the present wage insufficient, and if that alone wasn't enough, tax policies helped it along. I won't even talk about what happened to the cost of medical care as a result of government intervention.

I don't recall the Republicans ever running for office on raising taxes, it's always the Democrats who are going to rob the rich to pay the poor, and the net effect all along has been to squeeze the middle class.

Where that really plays into the proletarian dreams of the Communists who took over the Democrat Party in the '60s, is to create the two classes Marxism thrives on, eliminating the benefits of a Capitalist economy for the majority of citizens in the former middle class.

Let's just quit soft pedaling Communism as "socialism", "Democratic Socialism", "Progressivism", "Liberalism", or any of the other monikers it currently goes by and start calling that spade a spade. Communism has never flourished so well as it has since it was declared dead--especially in the USA.

[Cyber Liberty]

Socialism is Communism sold by the drink.  PJ O'Rourke.