Author Topic: Fire breaks out in historic Notre Dame cathedral in Paris- Breaking  (Read 5492 times)

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Online TomSea

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People Report Seeing Religious Figures In Flames of Notre Dame
« Reply #175 on: April 17, 2019, 08:44:29 AM »
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People Report Seeing Religious Figures In Flames of Notre Dame
By Tom Ozimek
April 17, 2019 Updated: April 17, 2019

People claiming to have seen religious figures in the flames of Notre Dame are setting social media abuzz.

A Scottish mother who said she spotted the figure of Jesus Christ in the flames of the burning cathedral has sparked a flurry of online reactions and broad coverage in the British press.

Multiple outlets reported on Wednesday, April 17, that while watching coverage of the fire on Monday at her home in Alexandria, West Dunbartonshire, 38-year-old Lesley Rowan set social circles abuzz by claims of having seen the figure of Jesus in the flames.

Read more at: https://www.theepochtimes.com/people-report-seeing-religious-figures-in-flames-of-notre-dame_2883300.html

Make of it, what one wants.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: People Report Seeing Religious Figures In Flames of Notre Dame
« Reply #176 on: April 17, 2019, 09:01:09 AM »
Make of it, what one wants.

@TomSea

Weak-minded people believe and see what they have been programmed to believe and see.
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Offline Freya

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Re: Fire breaks out in historic Notre Dame cathedral in Paris- Breaking
« Reply #177 on: April 17, 2019, 10:27:15 AM »
People see  what they want to see. It’s called Pareidolia.  It might give them comfort watching something so horrible.

The fact the cross and other relics were saved and untouched, who knows? Maybe G-d had something to do with it. I would like to believe in miracles. I’m praying for one for a few people here.
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Online DCPatriot

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Re: Fire breaks out in historic Notre Dame cathedral in Paris- Breaking
« Reply #178 on: April 17, 2019, 12:38:05 PM »
People see  what they want to see. It’s called Pareidolia.  It might give them comfort watching something so horrible.

The fact the cross and other relics were saved and untouched, who knows? Maybe G-d had something to do with it. I would like to believe in miracles. I’m praying for one for a few people here.

Heck... I 'see' over 3 dozen assorted faces of people and animals in my bathroom carpet.

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Online mountaineer

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Re: Fire breaks out in historic Notre Dame cathedral in Paris- Breaking
« Reply #179 on: April 17, 2019, 12:43:33 PM »
People see  what they want to see. It’s called Pareidolia.  It might give them comfort watching something so horrible.

The fact the cross and other relics were saved and untouched, who knows? Maybe G-d had something to do with it. I would like to believe in miracles. I’m praying for one for a few people here.
Agreed.  Well said.
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Fire breaks out in historic Notre Dame cathedral in Paris- Breaking
« Reply #180 on: April 17, 2019, 12:58:22 PM »
Believing in miracles is not a sign of a weak mind.

It is a sign that one's mind goes beyond what one sees and touches, to one that is beyond human understanding.

It is, indeed, a sign of a deeper ability to think rather than the shallower perception we have in a material world.
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Online TomSea

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Re: People Report Seeing Religious Figures In Flames of Notre Dame
« Reply #181 on: April 17, 2019, 01:37:47 PM »
@TomSea

Weak-minded people believe and see what they have been programmed to believe and see.

Yeah, and no matter how you fuss about Muslims, atheists hand over the West to Muslims. They are their best friends.  The fall of Christianity in Europe will be the rise of Islam. It sure won't be with atheists who don't replace the population with low growth rates.  Potentially, it could happen here too.

@sneakypete

Maybe there are other strengths,  other kinds and by the way. There are some things that just can not be explained. I am not going to get into that here. That's not the topic here.

« Last Edit: April 17, 2019, 01:56:33 PM by TomSea »

Online TomSea

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France asks: should Notre-Dame's spire be rebuilt as it was?
« Reply #182 on: April 17, 2019, 01:48:22 PM »
Quote
France asks: should Notre-Dame's spire be rebuilt as it was?
Richard Lough

PARIS (Reuters) - France will open the redesign of Notre-Dame de Paris cathedral’s historic spire to international architects after Monday night’s catastrophic blaze that gutted the centuries-old roof and sent the towering spire crashing through the vaulted ceiling.

The government’s announcement on Wednesday added to a question many are asking as France grieves for its damaged national symbol - whether the familiar outline at the heart of the capital should be restored exactly as it was or given a modern twist.

President Emmanuel Macron pledged in a prime-time address to the nation on Tuesday that Notre-Dame would be rebuilt within five years. Tycoons, international firms, local authorities and individuals have promised financial and expert help - with a total of nearly 900 million euros pledged by Wednesday.

Read more at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-france-notredame/france-asks-should-notre-dames-spire-be-rebuilt-as-it-was-idUSKCN1RT197

Offline thackney

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Re: Fire breaks out in historic Notre Dame cathedral in Paris- Breaking
« Reply #183 on: April 17, 2019, 02:04:07 PM »
Millions in Notre-Dame Donations Pour In as France Focuses on Rebuildinghttps://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/17/world/europe/donate-notre-dame-fire.html

...Individuals, companies and institutions have so far donated or pledged 845 million euros, about $950 million, to rebuild the damaged cathedral, which has stood for more than eight centuries. On Tuesday, the government set up an online portal pointing to four official organizations and foundations that are collecting donations....

...Firefighters said at a news conference on Wednesday that they had always known the lattice was at risk. Philippe Demay, a deputy fire chief who was among the first to arrive at the cathedral on Monday, said that firefighters knew “perfectly well” that if the roof caught fire, “it was going to be very complicated to stop.”

Mr. Demay said that he had arrived at the site in less than three minutes, as the area around the cathedral was bustling with thousands of tourists, and that he and his colleagues had to quickly trudge up the cathedral’s narrow spiraling staircases with heavy equipment in tow — an exercise they had done many times before.

Myriam Chudzinski, another firefighter, said that once they got to the top, it was clear that the flames had already spread.

“It was very, very hot; we had to back up,” she said.

On Wednesday, the police continued to block access to the cathedral and to the area around it on the Île de la Cité, one of the islands in the Seine that lie at the heart of Paris. Tourists and Parisians alike pressed against police barricades along the river, snapping pictures of the beloved symbol of the city, now roofless, and pointing to a cluster of firefighters atop one of the cathedral’s towers....
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Offline thackney

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Re: Fire breaks out in historic Notre Dame cathedral in Paris- Breaking
« Reply #184 on: April 17, 2019, 03:02:16 PM »
Notre-Dame Attic Was Known as ‘the Forest.’ And It Burned Like One.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/world/europe/why-notre-dame-fire-spread.html

...Some of those elements, like firewalls or a sprinkler system, were absent by choice — so as not to alter the landmark’s design or to introduce electrical wiring deemed a greater risk amid the timbers that supported Notre-Dame’s ornate lead roof.

“There had been a systematic refusal to install anything electrical” within “the forest” because of the risk, said Pierre Housieaux, president of the Paris Historical Association. “Everyone knew that the attic was the most fragile part.”...

...Firefighters deployed a robot equipped with tank-type treads and a camera to pull hoses into the cathedral and aim water at the flames. Firefighters also used aerial drones to get a view, including thermal imaging, into the inferno....

...“The lack of fire security allowed the fire to spread quickly,” said Jean-Michel Leniaud, the former director of the École Nationale des Chartes, a French university institute that specializes in the sciences supporting historical work. “If there were sprinklers everywhere it might have been different, but there weren’t.”...

...“We don’t act without planning,” said Gabriel Plus, a spokesman for the Paris fire brigade. “We know the cathedral. So we know what to do when something like that happens, we know, for instance, that we need to deploy boats on the Seine really quickly to pump large amounts of water.”

About 500 firefighters responded, some of them unfurling hoses and training them on the blaze. About 100 focused on saving its religious and cultural treasures, Mr. Plus said.

“Once we realized that the roof would be partially lost, we aimed to stop the fire at the two towers, in order to limit the damage,” he said....

...“At the cathedral, we have fire monitors,” Msgr. Patrick Chauvet, rector of the cathedral, told the radio station France Inter on Tuesday. “Three times a day they go up, under the wooden roof, to make an assessment.”

Notre-Dame had an on-site firefighter, posted daily at a command post on the floor of the structure, and a security agent, said André Finot, a spokesman for the cathedral. In case of an alarm, the firefighter would dispatch the security agent to the area where it rang....
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Offline Polly Ticks

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Re: Fire breaks out in historic Notre Dame cathedral in Paris- Breaking
« Reply #185 on: April 17, 2019, 03:50:16 PM »
Notre-Dame Attic Was Known as ‘the Forest.’ And It Burned Like One.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/world/europe/why-notre-dame-fire-spread.html

...Some of those elements, like firewalls or a sprinkler system, were absent by choice — so as not to alter the landmark’s design or to introduce electrical wiring deemed a greater risk amid the timbers that supported Notre-Dame’s ornate lead roof.

“There had been a systematic refusal to install anything electrical” within “the forest” because of the risk, said Pierre Housieaux, president of the Paris Historical Association. “Everyone knew that the attic was the most fragile part.”...

...Firefighters deployed a robot equipped with tank-type treads and a camera to pull hoses into the cathedral and aim water at the flames. Firefighters also used aerial drones to get a view, including thermal imaging, into the inferno....

...“The lack of fire security allowed the fire to spread quickly,” said Jean-Michel Leniaud, the former director of the École Nationale des Chartes, a French university institute that specializes in the sciences supporting historical work. “If there were sprinklers everywhere it might have been different, but there weren’t.”...

...“We don’t act without planning,” said Gabriel Plus, a spokesman for the Paris fire brigade. “We know the cathedral. So we know what to do when something like that happens, we know, for instance, that we need to deploy boats on the Seine really quickly to pump large amounts of water.”

About 500 firefighters responded, some of them unfurling hoses and training them on the blaze. About 100 focused on saving its religious and cultural treasures, Mr. Plus said.

“Once we realized that the roof would be partially lost, we aimed to stop the fire at the two towers, in order to limit the damage,” he said....

...“At the cathedral, we have fire monitors,” Msgr. Patrick Chauvet, rector of the cathedral, told the radio station France Inter on Tuesday. “Three times a day they go up, under the wooden roof, to make an assessment.”

Notre-Dame had an on-site firefighter, posted daily at a command post on the floor of the structure, and a security agent, said André Finot, a spokesman for the cathedral. In case of an alarm, the firefighter would dispatch the security agent to the area where it rang....

Sounds like the fire fighters had a pretty sophisticated operation going.  That's probably why the damage was limited as much as it was.
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Fire breaks out in historic Notre Dame cathedral in Paris- Breaking
« Reply #186 on: April 17, 2019, 04:40:03 PM »
FWIW........

UPDATE on Notre Dame Fire: Here’s what we know about what started the fire
By Pamela Geller - on April 17, 2019



Here is the latest update from Maxime Lépante, our French correspondent in France (emphasis is mine):

This is an update about what we know today about the fire that destroyed the roof and parts of the vaults of Notre-Dame:

1) Restoration work hadn’t started on the roof. The scaffolding were still being put in place. The architect in chief of the “Monuments Historiques” (“Historical Monuments”, the administration that maintains and repairs monuments in France), Philippe Villeneuve, who was responsible for the refurbishing of the spire of Notre-Dame, has stated that : “Work had not started yet, scaffoldings were still being built”.

2) Everything was done to avoid any source of heat near the wood of the roof. No electrical plug, no welding were allowed. So, Philippe Villeneuve says : “The hot spot hypothesis is therefore not the right one”.

3) The head of the company that was building the scaffoldings (Europe Echafaudage) (Europe Scaffolding), Julien Le Bras, was interviewed by a French TV (BFM) : “All I can say for the time being is that at the moment of the fire, absolutely none of the employees of my company was present on site”.

4) He added : “All safety procedures on the Notre-Dame de Paris site have been respected”.

5) One of my friend sent me an email concerning the security on the roof of Notre-Dame. She has a diploma in Art history and studied in the “Ecole du Louvre” (“Louvre School”, were students learn art history and restoration processes) : “I visited the framing of Notre Dame with architects of the “Bâtiments de France” (“Buildings of France”, the highest rank for an architect in France), some years ago. This 13th century timber frame was extremely protected.  intervention is always accompanied by historians, architects, experts; no work is envisaged without extreme caution; no source of heat, no torch, no electrical apparatus is allowed; a high-performance alarm system is in place; and very strict supervision of all people allowed there. I think we will eventually learn that this was arson.".

6) So as I said yesterday, with all these security measures, to have a fire on the roof of Notre-Dame, someone had to bring something there, and lit it up.

https://gellerreport.com/2019/04/notre-dame-fire-whatwe-know.html/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=facebook&fbclid=IwAR2-QWZ94GKNCzfQMadMUcFPhU59Rglxjo0yQKYY-A9lHc60s1_u9nDGKQ0
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Online mountaineer

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Re: Fire breaks out in historic Notre Dame cathedral in Paris- Breaking
« Reply #187 on: April 17, 2019, 05:49:52 PM »
I tend to agree with Pamela Geller.
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Fire breaks out in historic Notre Dame cathedral in Paris- Breaking
« Reply #188 on: April 17, 2019, 05:56:09 PM »
I tend to agree with Pamela Geller.

Hard to disagree with facts, eh?

I guess maybe Shep is wrong.  happy77
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Fire breaks out in historic Notre Dame cathedral in Paris- Breaking
« Reply #189 on: April 17, 2019, 05:57:46 PM »
Hard to disagree with facts, eh?

I guess maybe Shep is wrong.  happy77

Weird, huh?
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Offline musiclady

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Re: Fire breaks out in historic Notre Dame cathedral in Paris- Breaking
« Reply #190 on: April 17, 2019, 06:01:18 PM »
Weird, huh?

I'm shocked, I tell ya.  Shep is my go-to guy for real news.  :cool:
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Offline Fishrrman

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Re: Fire breaks out in historic Notre Dame cathedral in Paris- Breaking
« Reply #191 on: April 17, 2019, 06:43:43 PM »
First order of business will be to build some kind of temporary "shelter" that covers the open top of the vault, crossing, and nave to protect it against the weather.

Looks like the old wood beams that held the roof up were completely consumed by the fire -- there probably won't even be too much to clean up and clear away, other than ashes.

Once the walls and buttresses are inspected and repaired (assuming they came through ok), the task will be to design a new roof and finally to rebuild the spire. Also to repair the portion of the ceiling that gave way (although much of it seems to have remarkably "held together").

I'm wondering if modern construction materials could be used to construct a roof (and underlying support system) that is lighter than the original beams (each of which was cut from an entire tree, if I recall reading correctly). That would reduce forces on the walls and buttresses underneath.

A redesigned roof might not look exactly the same as the original, but properly constructed it could protect the cathedral for [hopefully] the next 500 years.

Insofar as cleaning up the existing debris goes, they should gather up and protect as much as possible (uncharred wood, perhaps pieces of stone, etc.). The items that wouldn't be of much use in rebuilding could be SOLD to help finance the restoration. Perhaps small pieces, mounted on a plaque, that people could buy. Doing so has the potential to raise a good amount of cash. Would you be interested in owning a chunk of the original Notre Dame cathedral for, say, $25?

(It's possible to buy stone fragments of the original Nauvoo temple built by the Mormons in 1846 before they left Illinois for the trek west. An interesting piece of history...)

Offline Freya

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Re: Fire breaks out in historic Notre Dame cathedral in Paris- Breaking
« Reply #192 on: April 17, 2019, 06:53:58 PM »
I bought a piece of the Berlin Wall years ago when stores were selling it,
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: Fire breaks out in historic Notre Dame cathedral in Paris- Breaking
« Reply #193 on: April 17, 2019, 07:12:57 PM »
People see  what they want to see. It’s called Pareidolia.  It might give them comfort watching something so horrible.

The fact the cross and other relics were saved and untouched, who knows? Maybe G-d had something to do with it. I would like to believe in miracles. I’m praying for one for a few people here.

@Freya

The cross didn't burn because it's not made out of wood.
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Offline sneakypete

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Re: People Report Seeing Religious Figures In Flames of Notre Dame
« Reply #194 on: April 17, 2019, 07:54:43 PM »
Yeah, and no matter how you fuss about Muslims, atheists hand over the West to Muslims. They are their best friends.  The fall of Christianity in Europe will be the rise of Islam. It sure won't be with atheists who don't replace the population with low growth rates.  Potentially, it could happen here too.

@sneakypete

@TomSea

WHO is applying for and getting government contracts to teach English as a second language,how to apply for welfare,food stamps,gubbermint housing,etc,etc,etc?

Would it be religious organizations,or atheists?
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Offline thackney

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Re: Fire breaks out in historic Notre Dame cathedral in Paris- Breaking
« Reply #195 on: April 18, 2019, 10:27:53 AM »
Notre Dame fire: drone footage shows damage to cathedral
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMaY4KqG_d8

Error 404 (Not Found)!!1
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Online Bigun

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Re: Fire breaks out in historic Notre Dame cathedral in Paris- Breaking
« Reply #196 on: April 18, 2019, 10:43:58 AM »
I tend to agree with Pamela Geller.

If Pam says it was arson then so do I!

Offline thackney

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Re: Fire breaks out in historic Notre Dame cathedral in Paris- Breaking
« Reply #197 on: April 18, 2019, 10:55:40 AM »
The Chaplain, the Cathedral Fire and the Race to Rescue Notre-Dame’s Relics
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/17/world/europe/statues-notre-dame-relics.html

...It was a task that emergency workers had prepared for. Firefighters held two training exercises at the cathedral last year that were focused on saving its treasures.

On Monday evening, when the possibility of a disaster became a terrifying reality, more than a hundred of the 500 firefighters who responded were dedicated to that mission.

Among the objects they saved were the crown of thorns said to have been worn by Jesus, the tunic of Saint Louis and a piece of wood and a nail believed to have been part of the cross used in the crucifixion.

There were obstacles beyond the fire itself. “We needed keys and codes to save some of the world treasures, which I clearly didn’t have,” Father Fournier said in an interview on Wednesday.

The crown of thorns, for example, which the cathedral calls its “most precious and most venerated relic,” was locked in a chest.

While Father Fournier ran to look for the keys, some of his fellow firefighters opted for a more direct approach: They broke open the chest, and carried the crown to the cathedral entrance, where police officers watched over the rescued artifacts.

Then workers from the city and the church, along with emergency workers, ferried the artworks away by making what the mayor of Paris, Anne Hidalgo, called “a formidable human chain.”

Inside Notre-Dame, Father Fournier and the other firefighters worked to remove a painting depicting the Virgin and Child. He covered two of the cathedral’s models, and later helped rescue a handful of other artworks and icons.

As the chaplain began removing a statue of Jesus, he said, his colleagues were fighting the fire from the cathedral’s towers. The flames had started to threaten the wooden structure around the belfry — putting the whole cathedral at even greater risk.,,,
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Offline Freya

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Re: Fire breaks out in historic Notre Dame cathedral in Paris- Breakin
« Reply #198 on: April 18, 2019, 01:02:00 PM »
Latest news Short Circuit likely caused Notre-Dame Fire:Police official


https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/national-international/Short-Circuit-Notre-Dame-Fire-508756191.html
Video too
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Offline thackney

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Re: Fire breaks out in historic Notre Dame cathedral in Paris- Breakin
« Reply #199 on: April 18, 2019, 01:09:27 PM »
Latest news Short Circuit likely caused Notre-Dame Fire:Police official


https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/national-international/Short-Circuit-Notre-Dame-Fire-508756191.html
Video too

That does not make any sense.  Because of the fire hazard no electrical circuits were allowed in the "forest",  Wood roof/attic area.

Notre-Dame Attic Was Known as ‘the Forest.’ And It Burned Like One.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/16/world/europe/why-notre-dame-fire-spread.html

...Some of those elements, like firewalls or a sprinkler system, were absent by choice — so as not to alter the landmark’s design or to introduce electrical wiring deemed a greater risk amid the timbers that supported Notre-Dame’s ornate lead roof.

“There had been a systematic refusal to install anything electrical” within “the forest” because of the risk, said Pierre Housieaux, president of the Paris Historical Association. “Everyone knew that the attic was the most fragile part.”...
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