Author Topic: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown  (Read 12545 times)

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Offline Night Hides Not

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #150 on: April 08, 2019, 03:33:54 pm »
They’ll go for it every time.

Slight edit: They've gone for it every time. However, I did notice a brief meltdown at TOS last week when Trump changed his mind on shutting down the border. It was quickly squelched by the most loyal of Trump's Orange Guard.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #151 on: April 08, 2019, 03:36:52 pm »
Of course he will.  He needs to keep his base excited while they wait for another year to roll around for him to actually do something, which they may or may not begin to realize that he's not going to do.

I'm the odd man out on this one.  I don't want him "closing the border."
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Offline InHeavenThereIsNoBeer

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #152 on: April 08, 2019, 03:42:59 pm »
Supposedly the system is overwhelmed with illegals and the BP and courts can't keep up.  How exactly are we going to close the border more?
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Offline Night Hides Not

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #153 on: April 08, 2019, 03:43:57 pm »
I'm the odd man out on this one.  I don't want him "closing the border."

Closing the border isn't a strategy. Building a physical barrier to impede unlawful entry is what needs to occur. Until then, I'd be in favor of a resumption of "Operation Hold the Line". 

http://digie.org/media/14437

I was living in El Paso at the time, and IMO it was a very effective tactic.
You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality.

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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #154 on: April 08, 2019, 04:14:54 pm »
Supposedly the system is overwhelmed with illegals and the BP and courts can't keep up.  How exactly are we going to close the border more?

CBP closed the El Paso port of entry to vehicular traffic over the weekend.  the officers had to be relocated to strengthen the border at the illegal points of entry.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline QueenCatofAragon

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #155 on: April 08, 2019, 04:32:06 pm »
Slight edit: They've gone for it every time. However, I did notice a brief meltdown at TOS last week when Trump changed his mind on shutting down the border. It was quickly squelched by the most loyal of Trump's Orange Guard.

Yes, I think you and I saw the same thread.  One of them actually said he hoped his “hero” really had other plans in mind.
I say this to Beto fans, Trump fans, all fans of politicians: it is un-American, ridiculous, and dangerous to be a fan of a politician. They aren't pop stars. Support them if you agree with their policies. Criticize them when they go wrong. They are servants, not celebrities. —— Matt Walsh

Offline QueenCatofAragon

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #156 on: April 08, 2019, 04:34:42 pm »
Just once, I’d like to hear a fact-based argument as to why we should trust politicians.  We don’t trust the average stranger on the street, unless we’re naive.  Why are public employees any different?
I say this to Beto fans, Trump fans, all fans of politicians: it is un-American, ridiculous, and dangerous to be a fan of a politician. They aren't pop stars. Support them if you agree with their policies. Criticize them when they go wrong. They are servants, not celebrities. —— Matt Walsh

Offline libertybele

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #157 on: April 08, 2019, 05:06:10 pm »
I'm the odd man out on this one.  I don't want him "closing the border."

You have the right to your opinion.   With Trump, who knows what he truly means or intends as that usually changes from day to day. Who knows what he will do after the one year period. He has lost all credibility on this issue. 

Personally, I'd like to see a  moratorium on ALL asylum and immigration into this country period. 
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline EdJames

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #158 on: April 08, 2019, 05:08:36 pm »
Just once, I’d like to hear a fact-based argument as to why we should trust politicians.  We don’t trust the average stranger on the street, unless we’re naive.  Why are public employees any different?

I can't give you a "fact-based" argument as to why anyone should trust politicians.  They shouldn't, and what I mean by that is not taking a completely paranoid view that every single thing that a politician says should be automatically disbelieved or doubted.  But rather that sort of blind trust that many people fall into when they find their "man" or "savior."

Firstly, this blind trust thing is not very widespread across the population as a whole.  It is pretty limited to the segment of politically active people that you encounter often on these forums, or in the new social media platforms.  How big of a percentage are they of the general population?  I don't really know, but I suspect that they are less than 20% of the general population.  The vast majority of people really don't get to the level of "trusting" a politician or not, they are pretty much ambivalent.

But to answer your question in a reason-based way that explains the phenomenon (but doesn't attempt to justify it), it is because these people realize to a certain degree (some of it conscious, and some of it subconscious) that the collective "we" of the Boomer and the subsequent generation or two have really screwed things up!

Speaking as a Boomer, "we" let our guard down, lost sight of what unfolded in the past several decades.  We were busy with life, careers, family, and leisure pursuits.  We experienced a level of affluence and economic freedom that was unique and virtually limitless in many ways.  In short, many of us became "fat and happy!"

And now, as life moves forward (and many have more time to really focus on the state of the economy, governance, and politics) and many of the Boomer generation have growing concerns for the futures of our children and grandchildren, we are looking for a "magic bullet!"  Something, or more often, Someone, that is going to rise up and "fix it all!" 

So we seize on the politician that knows how to SAY the right things!  Those things that represent the "magic bullet" that will fix it all, or at least most of it, within our lifetimes!  This way we can go to rest knowing that things will be alright for the children and grandchildren (and for some, the great grandchildren).

This isn't really unique to Trump, although there are aspects of his personality and approach that make the blind trust seem more pronounced.  Some people did it for GWB, others did it for 0bama.  And if you consider that a lot of full throated (ATs in the vernacular) Trump supporters are now a decade or so further down the path of life, it explains why that blind trust is so pronounced. 

I see this phenomenon as a good explainer as to why "Q" has so many older Boomer fans....  "Q" represents an "even more Magic" bullet!

I realize that this doesn't explain the behavior of the millennials or younger, where you do see some of the same blind trust for people like Bernie, 0bama, and to a lesser extent, Trump.  But I do believe that it explains it for many of the people that you will see on the political forums.

Offline ABX

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #159 on: April 08, 2019, 05:08:36 pm »
I'm the odd man out on this one.  I don't want him "closing the border."

You aren't the only one. I see it like the Democrat gun control argument- you will only stop the law abiding, not the criminals. So you punish a million legal people each day (back and forth on both sides) for the thousands of criminals (who you won't stop anyway).

Offline libertybele

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #160 on: April 08, 2019, 06:06:10 pm »
You aren't the only one. I see it like the Democrat gun control argument- you will only stop the law abiding, not the criminals. So you punish a million legal people each day (back and forth on both sides) for the thousands of criminals (who you won't stop anyway).

We aren't talking about legal migrants.  We are talking about an INVASION of ILLEGALS.  (Perhaps I misunderstood?)
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #161 on: April 08, 2019, 06:07:43 pm »
We aren't talking about legal migrants.  We are talking about an INVASION of ILLEGALS.  (Perhaps I misunderstood?)

Trump was threatening a border closure to halt commerce.  Apples & Oranges.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline libertybele

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #162 on: April 08, 2019, 06:19:00 pm »
Trump was threatening a border closure to halt commerce.  Apples & Oranges.

Thinking that in doing so he could persuade Mexico to curtail the invasion on their end.  So ... does that mean that Mexico has better control of their border than we do??  I highly doubt it.  Trump is merely rambling and giving his supporters more false hope.  Why they give him a pass on kicking this issue down the road for another year is beyond me.  They keep their heads buried in the sand and refuse to acknowledge that they've been duped.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline ABX

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #163 on: April 08, 2019, 06:22:05 pm »
We aren't talking about legal migrants.  We are talking about an INVASION of ILLEGALS.  (Perhaps I misunderstood?)

Except when you 'totally shut down the border' you shut it down for everyone. Legal migrants, legal tourists, and the millions of people who legally go back and forth every single day to conduct business. It is the busiest border in the world for legal business transactions. 

Illegal is out of control, but you don't punish all the legal traffic for what the illegal does. Another analogy would be prohibition. Did it stop crimes committed while drinking? Nope, it made the criminal class boom while making criminals out of free, legal citizens.

If you want to see crime explode- shut down the border completely.

Offline libertybele

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #164 on: April 08, 2019, 06:46:56 pm »
Except when you 'totally shut down the border' you shut it down for everyone. Legal migrants, legal tourists, and the millions of people who legally go back and forth every single day to conduct business. It is the busiest border in the world for legal business transactions. 

Illegal is out of control, but you don't punish all the legal traffic for what the illegal does. Another analogy would be prohibition. Did it stop crimes committed while drinking? Nope, it made the criminal class boom while making criminals out of free, legal citizens.

If you want to see crime explode- shut down the border completely.

So ... we continue to leave it open for all the illegals, terrorists, criminals, gangs, dope smugglers, etc., to carry on in a business as usual fashion to the point that we become another Europe and suffer the consequences?

I disagree.  I don't think you will see ALL crimes explode; quite the opposite.

I've never said that closing down the border is going to be without its own consequences, but I'd rather do so, then lose our Republic.  In the long run, we'd have a much stronger Republic and we'd become much more self-sufficient.  We certainly have a means to produce our own food and manufacture our own products.  This country can more than adapt to becoming completely self sustaining.
Romans 12:16-21

Live in harmony with one another; do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly, do not claim to be wiser than you are.  Do not repay anyone evil for evil, but take thought for what is noble in the sight of all.  If it is possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all…do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #165 on: April 08, 2019, 09:09:36 pm »
I'm the odd man out on this one.  I don't want him "closing the border."

@Cyber Liberty

Nobody wants him to actually close the border. What people mean when they use that slogan is "Close the border to illegals who have no right to be here."
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #166 on: April 08, 2019, 09:12:26 pm »
Supposedly the system is overwhelmed with illegals and the BP and courts can't keep up.  How exactly are we going to close the border more?
Make them wait on the other side instead of releasing them for their hearings into the US (because most will never show for the hearings).
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #167 on: April 08, 2019, 09:12:40 pm »
Trump was threatening a border closure to halt commerce.  Apples & Oranges.

@Cyber Liberty

That was to shake up the Mexicans to get them to stop making it easy for people to cross our borders. They have a lot more to lose than we do if the borders are really completely shut down.
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #168 on: April 08, 2019, 09:14:12 pm »
So ... we continue to leave it open for all the illegals, terrorists, criminals, gangs, dope smugglers, etc., to carry on in a business as usual fashion to the point that we become another Europe and suffer the consequences?

I disagree.  I don't think you will see ALL crimes explode; quite the opposite.

I've never said that closing down the border is going to be without its own consequences, but I'd rather do so, then lose our Republic.  In the long run, we'd have a much stronger Republic and we'd become much more self-sufficient.  We certainly have a means to produce our own food and manufacture our own products.  This country can more than adapt to becoming completely self sustaining.
If he wants to win the blue collar vote over, get the manufacturing that moved south of the border (Ross Perot's "Giant sucking sound") back.
How God must weep at humans' folly! Stand fast! God knows what he is doing!
Seventeen Techniques for Truth Suppression

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

C S Lewis

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #169 on: April 08, 2019, 09:24:11 pm »
Make them wait on the other side instead of releasing them for their hearings into the US (because most will never show for the hearings).

Yes, make an effective policy and put it into action.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #170 on: April 09, 2019, 03:02:26 am »
Make them wait on the other side instead of releasing them for their hearings into the US (because most will never show for the hearings).

It's a great idea.  Question:  Would Mexico set up the detention centers?  Would they let CBP do it?  They can't just let them loose, they'll all try it again.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Frandia

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #171 on: April 09, 2019, 11:10:18 am »
Make them wait on the other side instead of releasing them for their hearings into the US (because most will never show for the hearings).

California judge blocks Trump's policy forcing asylum-seekers to stay in Mexico

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/9th-circuit-judge-blocks-trumps-policy-forcing-asylum-seekers-to-stay-in-mexico

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #172 on: April 09, 2019, 11:28:34 am »
It's a great idea.  Question:  Would Mexico set up the detention centers?  Would they let CBP do it?  They can't just let them loose, they'll all try it again.

@Cyber Liberty

Don't know,don't care. That is Mexico's problem.

Betcha they crack down on people slipping across THEIR southern border,though.
Anyone who isn't paranoid in 2021 just isn't thinking clearly!

Offline sneakypete

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #173 on: April 09, 2019, 11:32:10 am »
California judge blocks Trump's policy forcing asylum-seekers to stay in Mexico

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/9th-circuit-judge-blocks-trumps-policy-forcing-asylum-seekers-to-stay-in-mexico

@Frandia

Somebody should smash that judges stones with a 18 lb maul. This is foreign policy,and he has no dominion over foreign policy.
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Offline Frandia

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Re: Trump gives Mexico 'one-year' warning for auto tariffs, border shutdown
« Reply #174 on: April 09, 2019, 11:46:03 am »
@Frandia

Somebody should smash that judges stones with a 18 lb maul. This is foreign policy,and he has no dominion over foreign policy.

While I have no issue smashing any leftist judge's stones...it is the law:

 "Try as it may, the Trump administration cannot simply ignore our laws in order to accomplish its goal of preventing people from seeking asylum in the United States.”