Poll

Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?

Yes
11 (78.6%)
No
3 (21.4%)

Total Members Voted: 14

Voting closed: April 04, 2019, 02:19:00 pm

Author Topic: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?  (Read 5583 times)

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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?
« Reply #25 on: April 04, 2019, 03:00:42 pm »
Yep, that's it.   *****rollingeyes*****

Just like Trump's own thoughtlessness in cutting off his nose to spite his face.

 *****rollingeyes*****

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?
« Reply #26 on: April 04, 2019, 03:16:45 pm »
*****rollingeyes*****

NOW we're engaged in thoughtful dialogue!   

Look, you know my position - cutting off aid to these countries will do nothing to address the conditions that force whole families to escape intolerable violence.   It is a play to Trump's white nativist base,  notwithstanding that it will only spur more asylum seekers toward the border.   

So explain to me why cutting off aid to the Honduran government and police will decrease the flow of asylum seekers.    If there's logic to your position, kindly explain it.     
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?
« Reply #27 on: April 04, 2019, 03:34:03 pm »
NOW we're engaged in thoughtful dialogue!   

Look, you know my position - cutting off aid to these countries will do nothing to address the conditions that force whole families to escape intolerable violence.   It is a play to Trump's white nativist base,  notwithstanding that it will only spur more asylum seekers toward the border.   

So explain to me why cutting off aid to the Honduran government and police will decrease the flow of asylum seekers.    If there's logic to your position, kindly explain it.   

Ah, now you're starting to think.  The reason cutting off aid to the Honduran government* will decrease the flow of illegal aliens is because those in the government using those funds want them to continue.  Even if that means they have to share a little bit, and do more to keep Hondurans in Honduras.


*And, it looks like you may recognize that $ sent to the Honduran government are used for exactly - those in the government.  Not the people of Honduras.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?
« Reply #28 on: April 04, 2019, 03:38:23 pm »
Ah, now you're starting to think.  The reason cutting off aid to the Honduran government* will decrease the flow of illegal aliens is because those in the government using those funds want them to continue.  Even if that means they have to share a little bit, and do more to keep Hondurans in Honduras.


*And, it looks like you may recognize that $ sent to the Honduran government are used for exactly - those in the government.  Not the people of Honduras.

Exactly.  The aid sent for the people is being skimmed off by the governments.  It would not surprise me if some of the aid is being spent to push these people into the invasion "caravans."

If I'm donating money to a charity, and I discover 95% of the money is used for "expenses," leaving 5% for the charitable services, then I stop donating.  Why should our government behave differently?
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?
« Reply #29 on: April 04, 2019, 04:10:55 pm »
Sure,  let's discuss how aid can be provided more effectively.    But that's not what Trump is suggesting.  He is stamping his feet in a fit of pique,  and picking at the scabs his base demands by proposing counterproductive policy.
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2019, 04:21:36 pm »
Sure,  let's discuss how aid can be provided more effectively.    But that's not what Trump is suggesting.  He is stamping his feet in a fit of pique,  and picking at the scabs his base demands by proposing counterproductive policy.

Let us know when you figure out how to force banana republics into not pilfering the aid.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2019, 04:31:35 pm »
Let us know when you figure out how to force banana republics into not pilfering the aid.

You are missing the forest for the trees.   Folks are coming here because of intolerable conditions in those countries.   Bad policy choices will only make the exodus worse.   
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Offline Victoria33

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Re: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2019, 04:47:10 pm »
Let us know when you figure out how to force banana republics into not pilfering the aid.
@Cyber Liberty

I expect there is no accounting as to what they do with the money we give them.  Stop the money going to those countries.  I have to pay income tax this month - I am to the point, I think my money is wasted going to the government.  Pay off the government debt; we can't afford to keep other countries viable, when we are not ourselves.  John Kasich was the last person who balanced our budget and he did it TWO times.  Since then, we are in a trash hole covered in debt papers.  Trump will spend more money than any other president because the money is not his.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2019, 04:53:34 pm »
@Cyber Liberty

I expect there is no accounting as to what they do with the money we give them.  Stop the money going to those countries.  I have to pay income tax this month - I am to the point, I think my money is wasted going to the government.  Pay off the government debt; we can't afford to keep other countries viable, when we are not ourselves.  John Kasich was the last person who balanced our budget and he did it TWO times.  Since then, we are in a trash hole covered in debt papers.  Trump will spend more money than any other president because the money is not his.

Actually, Texas adopts a balanced budget every two years.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2019, 04:53:55 pm »
@Cyber Liberty

I expect there is no accounting as to what they do with the money we give them.  Stop the money going to those countries.  I have to pay income tax this month - I am to the point, I think my money is wasted going to the government.  Pay off the government debt; we can't afford to keep other countries viable, when we are not ourselves.  John Kasich was the last person who balanced our budget and he did it TWO times.  Since then, we are in a trash hole covered in debt papers.  Trump will spend more money than any other president because the money is not his.

IOW, he's just like every President in my lifetime.  Each one watched the debt grow on his watch.  Will Trump preside over the largest?  Probably. 
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
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Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2019, 04:54:29 pm »
Actually, Texas adopts a balanced budget every two years.

I think most states require that....
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2019, 04:54:41 pm »
You are missing the forest for the trees.   Folks are coming here because of intolerable conditions in those countries.   Bad policy choices will only make the exodus worse.

Yes, but it is not up to us to make the policy choices in those countries.  However, we can lean on their governments for them to do so. 

Think, man.  Quit emoting all over the place.

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2019, 05:25:10 pm »
Yes, but it is not up to us to make the policy choices in those countries.  However, we can lean on their governments for them to do so. 

Think, man.  Quit emoting all over the place.

People are not joining the invasion "caravans" because their governments aren't getting enough largess from the USA, they doing it because of the US promises of free stuff.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2019, 05:33:17 pm »
People are not joining the invasion "caravans" because their governments aren't getting enough largess from the USA, they doing it because of the US promises of free stuff.

The exodus is because of intolerable gang violence.    The governments of these countries need to impose law and order.    If American aid can help in that regard,  it's a bargain as compared with the cost of providing for all these asylum seekers. 
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2019, 05:49:38 pm »
The exodus is because of intolerable gang violence.    The governments of these countries need to impose law and order.    If American aid can help in that regard,  it's a bargain as compared with the cost of providing for all these asylum seekers.

Ah ha, now you get it!  But, sort of backwards.  They have transferred the gangs here.  We need to impose law and order to remove the gang violence from here.

Offline truth_seeker

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Re: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?
« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2019, 05:57:44 pm »
The exodus is because of intolerable gang violence.   

We need computer programmers, not stoop laborers.

They bring that same gang culture with them, imposing it here.

They consume far more in costly services, than they contribute. (medical, school, police and prisons)
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Offline Victoria33

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Re: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?
« Reply #41 on: April 04, 2019, 06:00:52 pm »
Actually, Texas adopts a balanced budget every two years.
@Sanguine

Texas, by law, must adopt a balanced budget.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?
« Reply #42 on: April 04, 2019, 06:02:50 pm »
@Sanguine

Texas, by law, must adopt a balanced budget.

Correct.  I'm missing the point.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?
« Reply #43 on: April 04, 2019, 06:06:45 pm »

Offline Cyber Liberty

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Re: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?
« Reply #44 on: April 04, 2019, 06:24:45 pm »
The exodus is because of intolerable gang violence.    The governments of these countries need to impose law and order.    If American aid can help in that regard,  it's a bargain as compared with the cost of providing for all these asylum seekers.

Bribing the corruptocrats isn't working anymore, so "help" must come from a source other than my wallet.  If you want to do it go ahead and send a check, but stop forcing me to do it too at the point of the IRS gun.
For unvaccinated, we are looking at a winter of severe illness and death — if you’re unvaccinated — for themselves, their families, and the hospitals they’ll soon overwhelm. Sloe Joe Biteme 12/16
I will NOT comply.
 
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Online Weird Tolkienish Figure

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Re: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?
« Reply #45 on: April 04, 2019, 06:52:21 pm »
It's called cutting off your nose to spite your face.    Ending assistance to these countries will just fuel the chaos, and the exodus.   

 :shrug:

Then we build a higher wall.

Offline Jazzhead

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Re: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?
« Reply #46 on: April 04, 2019, 07:36:54 pm »
:shrug:

Then we build a higher wall.

And how do we do that, with Trump as President?   The Dems will see this nation destroyed before they give an inch to the man they hate.   They have responded to this Presidency by radicalizing themselves.   
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Offline Smokin Joe

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Re: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?
« Reply #47 on: April 04, 2019, 07:37:47 pm »
Sure,  let's discuss how aid can be provided more effectively.    But that's not what Trump is suggesting.  He is stamping his feet in a fit of pique,  and picking at the scabs his base demands by proposing counterproductive policy.
Maybe you could just air drop turkeys on Thanksgiving....
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Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.

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Offline Absalom

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Re: Is cutting off aid to Central America the right choice?
« Reply #48 on: April 04, 2019, 08:26:19 pm »
NOW we're engaged in thoughtful dialogue!   
Look, you know my position - cutting off aid to these countries will do nothing to address the conditions that force whole families to escape intolerable violence.   It is a play to Trump's white nativist base,  notwithstanding that it will only spur more asylum seekers toward the border.   
So explain to me why cutting off aid to the Honduran government and police will decrease the flow of asylum seekers.    If there's logic to your position, kindly explain it.   
---------------------------------------
The virtues that permit cultures/societies to survive then thrive; are most
prominently, self-discipline, responsibility, courage, perseverance and honor.
These were the legacy of Greece that infused Europe for some 3000 years.
North America also embraced these while South America rejected them; 
refusing to let go of their tribal backwardness. So be it!
All make choices in life which determine their culture created and values embraced.
All the pious platitudes, sanctimonious malarkey, excuse mongering and sob stories
are empty blather which change nothing. Further, we owe South America nothing.
NOTHING!!!