Author Topic: NBC video: Should the U.S. military intervene in Venezuela?  (Read 1517 times)

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Offline TomSea

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Re: NBC video: Should the U.S. military intervene in Venezuela?
« Reply #25 on: March 27, 2019, 04:52:59 pm »
The only reason we should take in refugees is if there is some benefit to us.  We should not take in refugees who expect to be taken care of for the rest of their lives.  We can and perhaps should take in those who want to become Americans, and take advantage of our great country to take care of themselves and contribute to this nation.

Your description is really more about "immigrants" than the way "refugees" are discussed.  Refugees are fleeing political persecution.  Asylum laws already pertain to this situation.


Offline Sanguine

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Re: NBC video: Should the U.S. military intervene in Venezuela?
« Reply #26 on: March 27, 2019, 05:04:11 pm »
Your description is really more about "immigrants" than the way "refugees" are discussed.  Refugees are fleeing political persecution.  Asylum laws already pertain to this situation.

I am talking about refugees like Cubans have been since Fidel and crew took over Cuba. 

Offline TomSea

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Re: NBC video: Should the U.S. military intervene in Venezuela?
« Reply #27 on: March 27, 2019, 05:17:39 pm »
It is said, we partner with Colombia in fighting a war on drugs, the whole refugee situation puts that in danger as well according to some government figures.

Quote
Colombia was once the rising economic star of Latin America. Now it has a long list of challenges — and the latest is an unprecedented refugee crisis.

Venezuelans are pouring in to flee the humanitarian disaster in their home country.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/02/22/news/economy/colombia-venezuela/index.html

The refugee crisis destabilizes the whole region.  Plenty of sources say this.
« Last Edit: March 27, 2019, 05:19:18 pm by TomSea »

Offline Restored

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Re: NBC video: Should the U.S. military intervene in Venezuela?
« Reply #28 on: March 27, 2019, 05:20:45 pm »
I wonder if that is borne out by history.  How often do the abused and downtrodden put up a successful rebellion and reject that which made them downtrodden in the first place?

Getting things in and out of Cuba is much more difficult because it is an island. If you can't stop drugs from coming in and out, you can't stop guns.
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Offline Sanguine

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Re: NBC video: Should the U.S. military intervene in Venezuela?
« Reply #29 on: March 27, 2019, 05:22:57 pm »
Getting things in and out of Cuba is much more difficult because it is an island. If you can't stop drugs from coming in and out, you can't stop guns.

Other examples?  My feeling is that successful rebellions happen much less often that maybe they ought to.

Offline TomSea

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Re: NBC video: Should the U.S. military intervene in Venezuela?
« Reply #30 on: March 27, 2019, 05:30:47 pm »
I am talking about refugees like Cubans have been since Fidel and crew took over Cuba.
A lot of Cubans simply received asylum. They did not have to prove their merit for citizenship though they have been overwhelmingly good citizens.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wet_feet,_dry_feet_policy

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The wet feet, dry feet policy or wet foot, dry foot policy is the name given to a former interpretation of the 1995 revision of the application of the Cuban Adjustment Act of 1966 that essentially says that anyone who emigrated from Cuba and entered the United States would be allowed to pursue residency a year later. Prior to 1995, the US government allowed all Cubans who reached US territorial waters to remain in the US. After talks with the Cuban government, the Clinton administration came to an agreement with Cuba that it would stop admitting people intercepted in U.S. waters. For several decades thereafter, in what became known as the "Wet foot, Dry foot" policy, a Cuban caught on the waters between the two nations (with "wet feet") would summarily be sent home or to a third country. One who makes it to shore ("dry feet") gets a chance to remain in the United States, and later would qualify for expedited "legal permanent resident" status in accordance with the 1966 Act and eventually U.S. citizenship. In January 2017, the Obama administration announced the immediate end of the policy shortly before President Barack Obama's term expired.[1]

Anyway, I'm not going to go on about this, the primary concern is one of destabilizing the Western hemisphere.  Colombia and so on and interfering with progress on the war on drugs.  It's been said, we could see more refugees than what has come out of Syria.

Good for one, if one thinks they are going to be taking citizenship tests at the border.
Quote
Venezuela's refugee crisis will exceed Syria's; we must help

The next refugee crisis is not being driven by a violent war but by a socioeconomic disaster of magnitudes hardly seen before.

The economic and humanitarian crisis in Venezuela is perhaps the worst that the hemisphere has seen in modern history: Without enough money to import food or basic medicine, most Venezuelans are going through severe hunger and are dying from preventable diseases.


This crisis is the product of enormous mismanagement by those in government, and nothing else. The unpopular, yet highly autocratic Venezuelan regime has made all the wrong policy choices for the sake of its own people.

https://thehill.com/opinion/international/373132-venezuelas-refugee-crisis-will-exceed-syrias-we-must-help

Offline TomSea

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Re: NBC video: Should the U.S. military intervene in Venezuela?
« Reply #31 on: March 27, 2019, 05:36:51 pm »
Refugee status is hardly the same thing as asking if these would be good citizens. It might be a minute point but it remains a viable question.

Quote
Venezuela exodus undercuts Trump on immigration: 'Nothing as permanent as a temporary refugee'


As Venezuela has grown more precarious, millions of its citizens have fled — and tens of thousands of them have headed to the U.S., looking to escape the social collapse.

The vast majority are arriving legally, but many are overstaying their visas and now are looking for humanitarian protections from the Trump administration to prevent them from being deported.

In any other time, they’d be the perfect candidates for Temporary Protected Status, which would give them tentative status, allowing them to work and live in the U.S. without fear of removal while their home country works out its problems.

Read more at: https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/mar/5/donald-trump-immigration-stance-threatened-venezue/

Quote
“While Maduro’s narcoterrorist regime continues to commit senseless acts of violence against the Venezuelan people, it is clear that the conditions on the ground warrants granting temporary protected status to Venezuelan nationals residing in the U.S.,” the Florida Republican said Thursday night in a joint statement with Democrats introducing the bill, the Venezuela Temporary Protected Status and Asylum Assistance Act of 2019. Rubio is chairman of the Western Hemisphere subcommittee of the Senate Foreign Relation Committee.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/news/rubio-joins-with-senate-democrats-to-offer-temporary-protected-status-to-venezuelan-refugees

We are hoping they can return to their homeland, not granting them citizenship in so much.

Offline Sanguine

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Re: NBC video: Should the U.S. military intervene in Venezuela?
« Reply #32 on: March 27, 2019, 05:39:23 pm »
OK, Tom, I'm giving up now.

Offline thackney

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Re: NBC video: Should the U.S. military intervene in Venezuela?
« Reply #33 on: March 27, 2019, 05:40:01 pm »
I think carpet bombing is the right answer.

Drop in these, maybe a hundred thousand.


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Offline TomSea

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Re: NBC video: Should the U.S. military intervene in Venezuela?
« Reply #34 on: March 27, 2019, 05:54:34 pm »
We won't have much say when millions are pouring across the border, this could easily be worse than Syria to be discussing whether these individuals would make good citizens especially since, we are only giving them refugee status, 3 million have fled, by the end of 2019, it could be up to 5 million.  Our own government officials talk of how bad this crisis can be.

Offline Absalom

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Re: NBC video: Should the U.S. military intervene in Venezuela?
« Reply #35 on: March 27, 2019, 06:00:40 pm »
A strong demurral.
There are No rising stars in South America and never were, as
it has never abandoned its Tribal (Aztec, Inca, Maya) Legacy;
despite extensive European immigration, initially from Spain
then later from Italy and Germany.
It remains a continent of 3rd world hearts and minds who
passively accept despotism and failure.
Indeed, we need a firm policy to protect our interests.
Suggest we start by dispensing w/ the piety and sanctimony
about "those poor immigrants/refugees"; their self-creation.

Offline sneakypete

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Re: NBC video: Should the U.S. military intervene in Venezuela?
« Reply #36 on: March 27, 2019, 08:10:31 pm »
A strong demurral.
There are No rising stars in South America and never were, as
it has never abandoned its Tribal (Aztec, Inca, Maya) Legacy;
despite extensive European immigration, initially from Spain
then later from Italy and Germany.
It remains a continent of 3rd world hearts and minds who
passively accept despotism and failure.
Indeed, we need a firm policy to protect our interests.
Suggest we start by dispensing w/ the piety and sanctimony
about "those poor immigrants/refugees"; their self-creation.

@Absalom

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